Installing an Oil Catch Can
09-18-2016, 06:51 PM
#281
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,458
For my oil issue I made gravity work against the oil and vacuum of the intake. I cleaned out my throttle body and after 1,800 miles no more oil getting sucked into the elbow just before the TB, I used a 2 foot length of 3/8 ID fuel line, a squirt or WD-40 helped with slipping the hose on the tube sticking out of the valve cover.
Last edited by Oldblue; 09-18-2016 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Housekeeping
09-18-2016, 07:27 PM
#282
Moderator
Join Date: 05-01-2014
Location: California
Posts: 7,791
Finally drained my collection tanks, this science experiment gets more confusing at every turn.
Drove somewhere around 2,500 miles, the intake side can only caught 2 oz of fluid. The turbo side only had a trace amount. Strange thing is, with the check valve installed, the turbo collection tank was under positive pressure. Maybe the pressure wasn't allowing anything in. I don't know when or why it pressurized. Maybe the check valve lets liquid in, but air could not escape.
So I guess I need to remove the check valve, but then it may go back to blowing by the filler cap.
Lot of miles, the vast majority were freeway, just a few inches of vacuum most of the time, so that helps explain why such little vapor was caught.
So I'm thinking that the vapors went:
1.) past the oil filler cap
2.) past the inefficient filtration media to the turbo/intake
3.) past the valve guides/#4 piston rings(5% leakage vs 2% cylinders 1-3)
4.) ???
Remember, after about 1,200 miles, I had lost 1/2 quart of oil. Again, I think I need better catch cans and a vacuum pump. How do I install a pump, and what will happen to it if the vapors are not filtered well enough prior to the air reaching the pump.
Thoughts?
Drove somewhere around 2,500 miles, the intake side can only caught 2 oz of fluid. The turbo side only had a trace amount. Strange thing is, with the check valve installed, the turbo collection tank was under positive pressure. Maybe the pressure wasn't allowing anything in. I don't know when or why it pressurized. Maybe the check valve lets liquid in, but air could not escape.
So I guess I need to remove the check valve, but then it may go back to blowing by the filler cap.
Lot of miles, the vast majority were freeway, just a few inches of vacuum most of the time, so that helps explain why such little vapor was caught.
So I'm thinking that the vapors went:
1.) past the oil filler cap
2.) past the inefficient filtration media to the turbo/intake
3.) past the valve guides/#4 piston rings(5% leakage vs 2% cylinders 1-3)
4.) ???
Remember, after about 1,200 miles, I had lost 1/2 quart of oil. Again, I think I need better catch cans and a vacuum pump. How do I install a pump, and what will happen to it if the vapors are not filtered well enough prior to the air reaching the pump.
Thoughts?
09-18-2016, 08:49 PM
#284
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-14-2012
Location: Washington P/L
Posts: 198
Some times the simple fix is the best.
I took the vent line off the valve cover ran it to a oil separator/catch can which resides behind the heat exchanger behind the bumper. Then it comes out of the separator and back up to the intake before the supercharger. As you can see I have a ZZperformance breather on the valve cover instead of the cap. Results well after 1500mile trip on the west coast on I-5 Average speed around 70. I had no oil in intake and drained out 2 oz of water/oil from oil separator. The water is condensed from the hot air coming out of the valve cover. When it gets in front of the radiator support the cold air on the tubing causes it to condense. It collects in the can. With 224K on this engine and it is supercharged with boost at 18psi. This isn't bad for a simple system.
Now I just have to work on my picture posting.
I took the vent line off the valve cover ran it to a oil separator/catch can which resides behind the heat exchanger behind the bumper. Then it comes out of the separator and back up to the intake before the supercharger. As you can see I have a ZZperformance breather on the valve cover instead of the cap. Results well after 1500mile trip on the west coast on I-5 Average speed around 70. I had no oil in intake and drained out 2 oz of water/oil from oil separator. The water is condensed from the hot air coming out of the valve cover. When it gets in front of the radiator support the cold air on the tubing causes it to condense. It collects in the can. With 224K on this engine and it is supercharged with boost at 18psi. This isn't bad for a simple system.
Now I just have to work on my picture posting.
12-02-2016, 08:48 PM
#285
Moderator
Join Date: 05-01-2014
Location: California
Posts: 7,791
Update time: Got home from Texas about 3 weeks ago and drained the collection tanks. I had removed the check valve that caused positive pressure in the turbo-side tank. Drove somewhere around 2,000 miles(maybe a little more). Turbo-side tank had 2+ oz of fluid, intake-side had nearly 11 oz of fluid. Some vapors blew past the oil filler cap, no way of knowing how much. There were some areas of rain on this trek.
I experimented with my oil filler cap. I found a supplement bottle with a neck of the proper size to seal the cap & O-ring. Drilled and tapped and installed an air fitting into it.
I regulated the air pressure down to nothing, then adjusted the regulator so that just the slightest amount of air pressure was present. Holding the filler cap in place, it seemed like there was a small leak, but I couldn't tell where. I tried to somewhat simulate engine conditions by putting some water in the bottle. If I could get the water airbourne, maybe that would expose the leak. Well that didn't work. But then I turned the assembly upside down, and the water came pouring out, not past the O-ring, but from between the light and dark colored parts of the cap.
Aha!! This cap is vented. There must be a valve buried in there, seems like it's designed to let air in while crankcase is negative pressure, but not let air out while crankcase is positive pressure. I'm thinking mine is defective. I'm imagining a rubber flap that lets air in unless the crankcase pressure pushes the flap up and seals an orifice. When I turned it upside down, the water just flowed around the flap. But there is no rattle to it at all, so I don't know. I may tear the cap apart to see. If I do I'll start a new thread with pics.
So I got the 7031710 (only a few dollars) which is definitely a non-vented cap. So not as good for the crankcase breathing, but at least no vapors will be soiling the valve cover. As shown here, there are 2 caps for the HHR 2.0, 1 vented, 1 non-vented. Chevrolet HHR Hatchback ENGINE ASM-2.0L L4 PART 2 CYLINDER HEAD & RELATED PARTS
12583570 is the other GM part number, the non-vented.
Here is the cap that came on the car.
The description for the non-vented cap(in the above link) seems like it's saying my cap is non-vented. Maybe I'm reading too much into what the descriptions say or don't say.
I experimented with my oil filler cap. I found a supplement bottle with a neck of the proper size to seal the cap & O-ring. Drilled and tapped and installed an air fitting into it.
I regulated the air pressure down to nothing, then adjusted the regulator so that just the slightest amount of air pressure was present. Holding the filler cap in place, it seemed like there was a small leak, but I couldn't tell where. I tried to somewhat simulate engine conditions by putting some water in the bottle. If I could get the water airbourne, maybe that would expose the leak. Well that didn't work. But then I turned the assembly upside down, and the water came pouring out, not past the O-ring, but from between the light and dark colored parts of the cap.
Aha!! This cap is vented. There must be a valve buried in there, seems like it's designed to let air in while crankcase is negative pressure, but not let air out while crankcase is positive pressure. I'm thinking mine is defective. I'm imagining a rubber flap that lets air in unless the crankcase pressure pushes the flap up and seals an orifice. When I turned it upside down, the water just flowed around the flap. But there is no rattle to it at all, so I don't know. I may tear the cap apart to see. If I do I'll start a new thread with pics.
12583570 is the other GM part number, the non-vented.
Here is the cap that came on the car.
The description for the non-vented cap(in the above link) seems like it's saying my cap is non-vented. Maybe I'm reading too much into what the descriptions say or don't say.
Last edited by RJ_RS_SS_350; 03-11-2017 at 11:44 PM.
12-03-2016, 08:50 AM
#286
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-01-2016
Location: Utah
Posts: 140
Update time: Got home from Texas about 3 weeks ago and drained the collection tanks. I had removed the check valve that caused positive pressure in the turbo-side tank. Drove somewhere around 2,000 miles(maybe a little more). Turbo-side tank had 2+ oz of fluid, intake-side had nearly 11 oz of fluid. Some vapors blew past the oil filler cap, no way of knowing how much. There were some areas of rain on this trek.
I experimented with my oil filler cap. I found a supplement bottle with a neck of the proper size to seal the cap & O-ring. Drilled and tapped and installed an air fitting into it.
I regulated the air pressure down to nothing, then adjusted the regulator so that just the slightest amount of air pressure was present. Holding the filler cap in place, it seemed like there was a small leak, but I couldn't tell where. I tried to somewhat simulate engine conditions by putting some water in the bottle. If I could get the water airbourne, maybe that would expose the leak. Well that didn't work. But then I turned the assembly upside down, and the water came pouring out, not past the O-ring, but from between the light and dark colored parts of the cap.
Aha!! This cap is vented. There must be a valve buried in there, seems like it's designed to let air in while crankcase is negative pressure, but not let air out while crankcase is positive pressure. I'm thinking mine is defective. I'm imagining a rubber flap that lets air in unless the crankcase pressure pushes the flap up and seals an orifice. When I turned it upside down, the water just flowed around the flap. But there is no rattle to it at all, so I don't know. I may tear the cap apart to see. If I do I'll start a new thread with pics.
So I got the 7031710 (only a few dollars) which is definitely a non-vented cap. So not as good for the crankcase breathing, but at least no vapors will be soiling the valve cover. As shown here, there are 2 caps for the HHR 2.0, 1 vented, 1 non-vented. Chevrolet HHR Hatchback ENGINE ASM-2.0L L4 PART 2 CYLINDER HEAD & RELATED PARTS
12583570 is the other GM part number, the non-vented.
Here is the cap that came on the car.
The description for the non-vented cap(in the above link) seems like it's saying my cap is non-vented. Maybe I'm reading too much into what the descriptions say or don't say.
I experimented with my oil filler cap. I found a supplement bottle with a neck of the proper size to seal the cap & O-ring. Drilled and tapped and installed an air fitting into it.
I regulated the air pressure down to nothing, then adjusted the regulator so that just the slightest amount of air pressure was present. Holding the filler cap in place, it seemed like there was a small leak, but I couldn't tell where. I tried to somewhat simulate engine conditions by putting some water in the bottle. If I could get the water airbourne, maybe that would expose the leak. Well that didn't work. But then I turned the assembly upside down, and the water came pouring out, not past the O-ring, but from between the light and dark colored parts of the cap.
Aha!! This cap is vented. There must be a valve buried in there, seems like it's designed to let air in while crankcase is negative pressure, but not let air out while crankcase is positive pressure. I'm thinking mine is defective. I'm imagining a rubber flap that lets air in unless the crankcase pressure pushes the flap up and seals an orifice. When I turned it upside down, the water just flowed around the flap. But there is no rattle to it at all, so I don't know. I may tear the cap apart to see. If I do I'll start a new thread with pics.
So I got the 7031710 (only a few dollars) which is definitely a non-vented cap. So not as good for the crankcase breathing, but at least no vapors will be soiling the valve cover. As shown here, there are 2 caps for the HHR 2.0, 1 vented, 1 non-vented. Chevrolet HHR Hatchback ENGINE ASM-2.0L L4 PART 2 CYLINDER HEAD & RELATED PARTS
12583570 is the other GM part number, the non-vented.
Here is the cap that came on the car.
The description for the non-vented cap(in the above link) seems like it's saying my cap is non-vented. Maybe I'm reading too much into what the descriptions say or don't say.
Last edited by RJ_RS_SS_350; 03-12-2017 at 01:10 AM.
12-03-2016, 09:02 AM
#287
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,671
The fact that it says "Mobil1" on it not DEXOS leads me to believe the SS has a different cap to the other HHRs. SS was the only one that required Mobil1.
The PCV breather would let excess pressure OUT, where else would air get IN? Only through leakage.
The PCV breather would let excess pressure OUT, where else would air get IN? Only through leakage.
12-03-2016, 01:16 PM
#288
Moderator
Join Date: 05-01-2014
Location: California
Posts: 7,791
Thanks for the update. Weird that they feel the oil cap needs to vent towards engine. I would think it would make more sense if the valve in the cap had a spring valve that would open if the pressure became to high in the crankcase, that way the seals would have a chance of not blowing out. Can you cut the oil cap apart to see what GM was doing? Just curious!
The 2.0 has an actual PCV valve buried inside the intake manifold. When the turbo pressurizes the intake manifold, the valve closes. This is also when the combustion chambers are at or near max pressure, causing more blow-by and higher crankcase pressure. So really need to evacuate that excess pressure, but the PCV valve is closed. GM built another line in, we've been referring to as port 2, between the valve cover and the turbo, to relieve pressure while boosting. There is no valve in it, so air can potentially flow in either direction as needed.
The 2.0 also has a "fresh air in" line to the crankcase, drawing air in from right after the filter, to a port on the valve cover, which we have been referring to as port 1. This has a check valve in it. The air is internally directed to the lower crankcase.
So, back to agreeing with Powermizer, I don't see any reason why air would need to flow in through the oil filler cap. Maybe the very low air pressure wasn't enough to trigger the emergency escape, but the weight of the water was. Must... do... more... testing!
12-04-2016, 03:17 PM
#289
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-03-2010
Location: Lake Ronkonkoma, N.Y.
Posts: 3,564
RJ
My question to you is:
If port 1 and 2 are left stock ,why would there be excess pressure in the crankcase?
If there is abnormal pressure to blow out the filler cap wouldn't you think there might be a sealing problem (rings)?
My question to you is:
If port 1 and 2 are left stock ,why would there be excess pressure in the crankcase?
If there is abnormal pressure to blow out the filler cap wouldn't you think there might be a sealing problem (rings)?
12-04-2016, 05:57 PM
#290
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-01-2016
Location: Utah
Posts: 140
Hasn't he changed his whole breather system? He just diagnosed a bad fill cap. Maybe I am missing something?