I know that the plant in Mexico that will make the HHR SS is not a UAW plant, so how can the UAW strike affect the HHR SS rollout? If the strike goes on, will the cars not be delivered? Is it possible that the HHR SS rollout happens sooner since GM has the ability to produce these cars while the strike continues?

I know that the plant in Mexico that will make the HHR SS is not a UAW plant, so how can the UAW strike affect the HHR SS rollout? If the strike goes on, will the cars not be delivered? Is it possible that the HHR SS rollout happens sooner since GM has the ability to produce these cars while the strike continues?

True, Ramos Arizpe is not a UAW plant. HOWEVER ... the plant making the engine IS. (Spring Hill, Tennessee)

I know that the plant in Mexico that will make the HHR SS is not a UAW plant, so how can the UAW strike affect the HHR SS rollout? If the strike goes on, will the cars not be delivered? Is it possible that the HHR SS rollout happens sooner since GM has the ability to produce these cars while the strike continues?


Parts my man, PARTS. AND now (according to the most recent news articles) the delivery of the parts AND the finished product.;)

Right (again) Snoopy.

It wouldn’t help even if they had engines because IMO I doubt that the Teamsters would transport them in the US anyway.

If there is any perverse justice in this (as a waiting SS purchaser) all other customers with GM cars on order will also be delayed, “misery loves company”. :smile:

I wonder if no engines and all the other US made parts will further delay the start of SS production even after a settlement?

Your last sentence got me wondering.......

What about ALL the parts from international contributors? Are they shipped to a US POE for inventory control, or directly to a Mexico POE, then to the plant.

Hey.....Desert Coyote....can you ask your wife if they send the engines directly to the plant or to an intermediary point. I guess the same question to Clare, at the transmission plant in Canada.

Just curious.....because Some of the parts are interchangeable with other GM products.

I know that the plant in Mexico that will make the HHR SS is not a UAW plant, so how can the UAW strike affect the HHR SS rollout? If the strike goes on, will the cars not be delivered? Is it possible that the HHR SS rollout happens sooner since GM has the ability to produce these cars while the strike continues?

The car is ASSEMBLED in Ramos Arizpe from parts that are MADE in UAW plants all over North America. Most of the body stampings come from Ohio and Michigan and the engines are made in Tennessee and New York. Once the plant runs out of materials in the system, the line will shut down.

Your last sentence got me wondering.......

What about ALL the parts from international contributors?

What about parts sent to international manufacturers? US autos share a lot of parts with foreign cars. Will this strike bring the whole auto manufacturing industry to a halt?

Good question....and I can't answer that.

But based on history, I don't think so. For example, Ford and Chrysler had continued to produce product while GM had been the strike target. I also believe Toyota, Nissan and the like, have not had any problems.

its cool, our Mexican transport trucks will deliver the parts and once again Mexicans will save the day!

its cool, our Mexican transport trucks will deliver the parts and once again Mexicans will save the day!

You must not understand the international commerce requirements or laws. Also you are underestimating the power of the Teamsters and UAW, which will effectively (one way or another) prevent the 100 trucks that are approved to move commerce more than 25 miles from the border.

Also, what about the union shops that recognize the UAW strike (or perhaps UAW members themselves).

I think you are being a bit simplistic or adversarial for "cause".:smile:

There is a powertrain in Toledo, Ohio, they are on strike. The plant is under construction for expansion and some of the union construction members walked off because they dont want to cross the picket line. So it is not gonna be cool. Unions are almost like a brotherhood you mess with one, you mess with them all.

You must not understand the international commerce requirements or laws. Also you are underestimating the power of the Teamsters and UAW, which will effectively (one way or another) prevent the 100 trucks that are approved to move commerce more than 25 miles from the border.

Also, what about the union shops that recognize the UAW strike (or perhaps UAW members themselves).

I think you are being a bit simplistic or adversarial for "cause".:smile:

i can find you 10,000 residents in my district that would be willing to to work for half the price UAW and the fact that unions are a dying breed the companies will either hire cheaper labor here or move across the border.

http://forum.joomla.org/Smileys/joomla/popcorn.gif

anyone got any salt?

i can find you 10,000 residents in my district that would be willing to to work for half the price UAW and the fact that unions are a dying breed the companies will either hire cheaper labor here or move across the border.

I'm not arguing that point:confused: .

I'm arguing your previous statement which is completely "off the cuff" and without any support.

Other than your current statement doesn't support your previous statement:red: .... how are you going to get all these "local" people to pass CDL requirements as well as getting the necessary equipment to transport the mentioned parts FROM THE UNION PLANTS AND MANUFACTURERS:roll: .

Do you see what I mean.....you have no merit in your statements.

And don't misunderstand MY position. I am diffinitely NOT supporting the UNIONS in this endeavor.

I'm done....dinner time, here.:smile:

I may just go to mexico and get me a SS, be the frist off the line! lol

My best guess is that the launch will be delayed at least as long as the strke itself lasts. IF not more.

its cool, our Mexican transport trucks will deliver the parts and once again Mexicans will save the day!


I know some people will take this wrong, but I thought it was funny. I don't want the UAW & it supporters upset though.

its cool, our Mexican transport trucks will deliver the parts and once again Mexicans will save the day!

As long as they dont try to deliver in the US, they will do fine.....:lol:

Have you ever seen what happens when they hire temps across a big union line? :eek:

Good question....and I can't answer that.

But based on history, I don't think so. For example, Ford and Chrysler had continued to produce product while GM had been the strike target. I also believe Toyota, Nissan and the like, have not had any problems.

Lets understand the term strike and how it occurs. In the Unions in North America the NLRB (national labor relations board) has set up very specific regulations for a Union to call a strike. So here's a brief description of the events leading up to the strike.

1. Contract expiration coming near. When a union and an employer enter into a labor agreement it is for a period of time usually in the 3-5 year range.

2. Union calls a meeting with its members that are covered under the collective bargaining agreement and discuss the issues that the members want changed.

3. Union takes list and meets with the employer where they sit and negotiate.

4. After they come to a tentative agreement its brought back in front of the members to accept or reject. If the membership accepts the contract its ratified. If they reject it they take a strike vote. *IMPORTANT* a contract can be rejected by a simple majority, but a strike vote can't pass unless 66% of the workers say NO i wont accept that offer from the employer.

5. The union negotiator goes back to the table and lets the employer know what the result was, and heres the important part. If the employer resumes negotiations in good faith there is no strike!!!!! If the employer says "thats our final offer, strike is on."

Unions don't call strikes, so lets get that clear. The employees working under a collective bargaining agreement do. And its the employers final decision that seals the fate of a strike.

Being a "target" of a strike is not an accurate statement. I just don't want you guys thinking that the union targeted GM for making money.

Yes the strike will affect delivery date on new GM vehicles, and THAT is the point of the strike. It shows that the employees are the ones that make the company what it is and deserve a fair wage.

Little fun fact. US Exec. makes $417 to every $1 that a normal employee makes.

Germany 29/1
Japan 24/1
England 18/1
and so on for the rest of the world. These figures were given to me at a recent class I took. I dont know if they are in the correct order of dollars to country but the numbers are the numbers. US execs are taking advantage of the US worker. Anyway just thought I'd chime in and say HI ALL!

As long as they dont try to deliver in the US, they will do fine.....:lol:

Have you ever seen what happens when they hire temps across a big union line? :eek:

My Union has it written into our contract that if there is a picket, a sign, a line, or anything having to do with a Problem with that employer we dont have to cross the line. The Company cant take any action against us either. Recently the Local laborers had a contract dispute with the major highway construction firms. They went on strike. The Operating Engineers respected their picket and we didnt work till the Laborers got their contract settled. When a picket goes up its not only 1 union that you have to consider... Almost all unions are going to honor that line! It shut down construction last year on all roads in Illinois.

i can find you 10,000 residents in my district that would be willing to to work for half the price UAW and the fact that unions are a dying breed the companies will either hire cheaper labor here or move across the border.

The problem with that logic is your 10000 people wont have the talent or training to do the jobs that the union workers have. My union spent $51 million on a training site for its Operators. The money comes out of my check weekly to pay for it..... Proof that union labor is better trained than non union labor. Sorry if you think otherwise.

5. The union negotiator goes back to the table and lets the employer know what the result was, and heres the important part. If the employer resumes negotiations in good faith there is no strike!!!!! If the employer says "thats our final offer, strike is on."

Unions don't call strikes, so lets get that clear. The employees working under a collective bargaining agreement do. And its the employers final decision that seals the fate of a strike.

!

But, if the union demands a "agreement" that the employer does not agree with. The union can call for the strike. That is not the empoyer sealing the "fate".

Example, you make $25/hr. Your union demands you make $50/hr. Your empoyee has stated you will get $30/hr. Union strikes. Is that is employee's fault? (granted no-one here knows the "exacts" and this was an example only).

Part supply...

i can find you 10,000 residents in my district that would be willing to to work for half the price UAW and the fact that unions are a dying breed the companies will either hire cheaper labor here or move across the border.

My union has grown 1000 members a year for the past 10 years. You do the math. We own the construction industry in Chicago. Your going to see a gigantic swing in union membership in the next ten years also. Take a look at the world governments. English Prime minister Gordon Brown, Labour party...
Australian government is controlled by the labor party... Japanese prime minister is appointed by the Liberal Democratic party of Japan ..... Unions are growing because people are fed up with substandard wages, health care and retirement packages while their employers execs are making multi million dollar salary's.

But, if the union demands a "agreement" that the employer does not agree with. The union can call for the strike. That is not the empoyer sealing the "fate".

Example, you make $25/hr. Your union demands you make $50/hr. Your empoyee has stated you will get $30/hr. Union strikes. Is that is employee's fault? (granted no-one here knows the "exacts" and this was an example only).

First If you make $25 an hour the "Union" wont demand that you make $50 an hour. The "Union" isnt made of of some stodgy old guy in a suit smoking a cigar. The "Union" is the member that is covered under the contract. SO If the Employer and the Employees cant come to an agreement the EMPLOYEES have the right under NLRB law to take a strike vote. The UNION'S only role is counting the votes that its members covered by that specific contract have cast. Then,like i said above, if the employer sits at the table again and hears what the employees want the strike is postponed due to good faith negotiations. But if he says tough the union negotiator has to go back to its membership and say guys he said, " no deal" So if the employer doesn't want to bargain then he has sealed the fate of the strike.

I used to be heavily involved in this whole process when I was a Mechanic. Had to go to school for it.

First If you make $25 an hour the "Union" wont demand that you make $50 an hour. The "Union" isnt made of of some stodgy old guy in a suit smoking a cigar. The "Union" is the member that is covered under the contract. SO If the Employer and the Employees cant come to an agreement the EMPLOYEES have the right under NLRB law to take a strike vote. The UNION'S only role is counting the votes that its members covered by that specific contract have cast. Then,like i said above, if the employer sits at the table again and hears what the employees want the strike is postponed due to good faith negotiations. But if he says tough the union negotiator has to go back to its membership and say guys he said, " no deal" So if the employer doesn't want to bargain then he has sealed the fate of the strike.

It's two sides of a coin.

Your last sentence got me wondering.......

What about ALL the parts from international contributors? Are they shipped to a US POE for inventory control, or directly to a Mexico POE, then to the plant.
Just curious.....because Some of the parts are interchangeable with other GM products.

Windsor transmission has stopped production as of 7:30 pm Monday there are 2 guys left to ship out trans to Mexico the rest of the week.Most of the gm plants in Canada are down now last one to close thursday.

Your last sentence got me wondering.......

What about ALL the parts from international contributors? Are they shipped to a US POE for inventory control, or directly to a Mexico POE, then to the plant.

Hey.....Desert Coyote....can you ask your wife if they send the engines directly to the plant or to an intermediary point. I guess the same question to Clare, at the transmission plant in Canada.


Don't have to ask, she's talked to me about this before. The engines are shipped, as often as possible, directly to the plants.

Your last sentence got me wondering.......

What about ALL the parts from international contributors? Are they shipped to a US POE for inventory control, or directly to a Mexico POE, then to the plant.

Hey.....Desert Coyote....can you ask your wife if they send the engines directly to the plant or to an intermediary point. I guess the same question to Clare, at the transmission plant in Canada.

Just curious.....because Some of the parts are interchangeable with other GM products.


Most engines and transmissions (powertrains) are sent directly to the user plant. Some, but not many, are sent to dealer/service zones for replacements.
Whenever there is a possible "disruption", some are "stored" near the user plant.
Windsor is the sole source of automatic trans.(8FW, 8EL, 8EH & 8TH).
Spring Hill,TN is the only source of the 2.0L LFN (turbo). Spring Hill, Tonawanda NY, and a German plant build the 2.2L engines.

source: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/08truck.htm#Ecotec20LI4VVTDITurbo

Clare

From MSNBC (on the UAW strike): “Generally, there will a lasting loss of market share if there is a long work stoppage,” he said. “A week is OK, but a month starts to be problematic. There are other popular vehicles and new cars being launched, so more than a week or two starts to create difficulties for GM’s production schedule.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20957632/

I think the UAW is shooting it's self in the foot with this strike

My thanks to Desert Coyote and cc732:thumb:

So the only possible disruption would come from direct shipment to the plant !!!! Teamsters will now be the problem.

Teamsters will now be the problem.

Too bad they just can't go away like Jimmy did.:lol:

The strike is (already) over!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20978036/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070926/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_talks

I would now guess that the UAW strike will have little to no affect on the HHR SS rollout.

Little fun fact. US Exec. makes $417 to every $1 that a normal employee makes.



That was not the case 37 ago and there were still strikes.BTW Elected Board members representing stockholders determine CEO pay. Sound familiar?

The average UAW worker earns $70K plus a year. Thats more then the average American family earns together! The average UAW worker has only a HS education... How much is enough? They are already making well over what half families earn. Not including $50 an hour overtime. It's no wonder the US auto companies are in trouble and going over the border for labor. Would YOU buy a car made by disgruntled workers who are taking that much. I hesitated to use the word "earning." A caveman could learn and do many of those Union "tasks" in a week or less.

Sure I would want "job security" if I was grossly over paid too. :lol:

Union made used to be a reason to buy.....now it's a reason to pass.

what do you think about this thought, that the strike, as short as it was, gave Chevy dealer lot inventories two more days to clear out, meaning two more days closer to focusing on 08 models.. meaning two days closer to the HHR SS "taking orders" date? :banana:

I know, it's a stretch. But I'm really glad the strike was just two days long.
Common sense and cooler heads prevailed.

How do you think the settlement will affect their ability to hire new employees. New hires will be subject to lower salaries and benefits. If it were me, I'd be glad to have a job. But I know many generations of families work for the auto industry. Will the children of current workers accept lower pay?

How do you think the settlement will affect their ability to hire new employees. New hires will be subject to lower salaries and benefits. If it were me, I'd be glad to have a job. But I know many generations of families work for the auto industry. Will the children of current workers accept lower pay?

Would YOU turn down even an $15 an hour job to start right out of High School in today's day and age watching a machine or installing dashboards? And get to buy a new car for less then anyone as well?

Of course they will. No brainer and GM knows it. Kids don't think of medical insurance either and certainly do not worry about getting old. That happens to "other" people.
If they don't there will be a line of those who will. Some may even be from Mexico....

Would YOU turn down even an $15 an hour job to start right out of High School in today's day and age watching a machine or installing dashboards? And get to buy a new car for less then anyone as well?

Of course they will. No brainer and GM knows it. Kids don't think of medical insurance either and certainly do not worry about getting old. That happens to "other" people.
If they don't there will be a line of those who will. Some may even be from Mexico....

King,
The thing your missing is that this is dangerous work. Like it or not its all about big machines and 3000lb cars. A smart company doesn't hire many 18-27 year olds to do these kinds of jobs because statistically they aren't as careful as someone 28-45. And on the other hand over 45 and you become complacent with your surroundings because the "I've done this for 15 years I know what I'm doing." mentality takes over. We just had a huge safety meeting at work about this yesterday as a matter of fact, and a single death on the assembly line, construction site, or any field can cost between $1 million and $10 million. I'd rather have the middle age guy anyway. He's more likely to be on time, and at work every day because hes supporting his family. There is an old adage, " You get what you pay for." It applies to employees also. At $15 an hour, the pool of people for a job isn't as big as if it were for 25-30 an hour. Bigger pool, larger number of qualified and quality applicants. That is another driving factor for wage.
I've never worked in a GM/UAW plant, but I was a mechanic for 12 years. I would imagine its similar. I know I worked my tail off for every dime I earned. Dirty hard work. I'm glad they came to an agreement that benefited both sides of the table.