Have a click:

http://www.turbosystem.com/New_Folder/In%20Development%20Page.htm

Ready to go, from the leader in Ecotec Turbo Performance!

Price? I could not find it in the link

Says it's available now but no way to order that I could find.

Says it's available now but no way to order that I could find.

same here!:( but i hope its competively priced like handheld tuners go for. say..$200-400. are there multiple parameters to check out? im very interested.:thumb:

Pricing is $995.

Without a doubt, the most HP per dollar of any mod you can make to the HHR!

Ordering information is on our homepage in the How To Order section, with a link here for your convenience:

http://www.turbosystem.com/hahn/hrc/order.htm

Thanks! These have proven to be magnificient on the Solstice and Sky, and we expect the same fun factor for HHR!

Don't know about the tune right now, but I am highly interested in the piping upgrades, intake system and BOV that it says is being developed.

Pricing is $995.

Wow, out of my reach, darn.

Maybe The Prices Will Go Down After Awhile, New Tech Is Always Like That. Wait Til There Are Some Competitors.

Does this tune hold or does the computer "unlearn" it?

Been burned too many times being an early adapter and paying top $$$. Anyone want to buy some lightly used HD DVD players? ;)

Does this tune hold or does the computer "unlearn" it?

Been burned too many times being an early adapter and paying top $$$. Anyone want to buy some lightly used HD DVD players? ;)
No sir, no unlearning here! This is very proven technology, and the tune will hold.

so does this finally bypass the "nanny-code" that causes it to detune power back to stock when it detects an increase in power?

Sorry but for that price I will wait for my tuner to get the new HP tuners that way I can actually see the performance gains on my car. Everytime ive used a handheld with presets they have been junk and for that price you can keep it.

so does this finally bypass the "nanny-code" that causes it to detune power back to stock when it detects an increase in power?
Indeed it does!

Sorry but for that price I will wait for my tuner to get the new HP tuners that way I can actually see the performance gains on my car. Everytime ive used a handheld with presets they have been junk and for that price you can keep it.

There's two distinctly separate markets at play here. I'd like to elaborate on how PPC fits in the mix:

It's important to note that the HPTuners is not a complete solution to the new and very different management tables in these new Bosch-provided LNF PCM's. As it is a tuning program, essentially a tool kit and not a 100% solution, it also does not come pre-tuned, whereas the PPC Tuner is a completely-engineered, plug-and-play hand-held solution that has a strong history of outstanding results. PPC has also been engineered and calibrated by the two companies who, combined, boast more experience with Ecotec turbos and this new and very unique Bosch direct-injection system than all other vendors combined....Hahn RaceCraft and BSR.

HPTuners offers a great product, and I don't doubt that someday, their solution to these 2.0 Ecotec LNF Turbos will be completed. They are a small organization with a lot on their plate right now, and frankly, much larger priorities than these LNF turbos. They'll get there; it's just a question of when, for V8 applications and their new Ford and Chrysler releases dominate their time right now.

It's also important to keep in mind that while the broad majority of HPTuners-equipped dyno operators are very well-schooled in late model GM V8 applications, this new turbo vehicle is an amazingly different animal. We've seen that familiarity with HPTuners alone does not assure one of acceptable, affordable results with this high-tech new engine, certainly not on the level that we and BSR are capable of. As such, the actual and ultimate dyno and tuning time to achieve good results can turn into some real $$$.

PPC also allows instantaneous return to stock programming, by the car owner, which can be amazingly handy if and when the need arises, for it usually arises very suddenly! One just may not have the opportunity or time in such instances to return to the local dyno-shop to revert to stock programming, or ship their PCM cross-country for this service. With PPC, it's just plug-and-go, several minutes at most. Of course, one can purchase one's own HPTuners cable and software, then learn how to use HPTuners and a laptop PC for this...but that cost, when combined with the cost of dyno development, may well exceed the cost of PPC...and while the PPC is designed to be beginner-friendly with several prompts that can literally be learned in minutes, learning how to manipulate program calibrations with HPTuners is a much more detailed undertaking.

Overall, for those seeing an easy-to-apply solution that does not require dyno tuning and tinkering, the BSR PPC is an outstanding alternative that has no peer in this current market for 2.0 LNF Turbo. Nothing is easier, nothing is more proven, and nothing else can boast the depth of development capability. For those seeking a solution that will some day allow them to get thieir hands dirty, learn a program, and do their own tuning, HPTuners may well be a better choice, but frankly, that's an entirely separate group than PPC is targeted at.

I illustrate these differences not to persuade GTO to HHR, but to ensure that others who also read the thread are able to understand the inherent differences in the two products and their implementation and results.

There's two distinctly separate markets at play here. I'd like to elaborate on how PPC fits in the mix ...

Excellent information, thanks.

I've had my GTO custom dyno tuned for $400 which was well worth it because, no two engines perform the same, close maybe, but not the same. Another reason I selected a custom tune over a canned tune is because of the bolt ons like headers and CIA.

Since the SS engine is a 4 cylinder forced induction engine, I would consider a canned tune and I do not plan on adding any bolts ons. Any issues of like engine performance are canned.

So my comment is, the price is just way too high and puts it out of reach for me. I'm not a poor man but I'm a long ways from being rich, and I'm not in this boat alone.

I'm looking for an affordable tune, the magic number is under $400 which is also under the amount needed for getting wife approval. Any chance of someone coming out with a less expensive tune?

I bought the HPtuners suite, and it is fairly interesting to look at the parameters that are accessible, no tune yet, which is a disappointing to say the least. I just ordered the PPC BSR Tuner from Hahn, so we will see how that goes. Regarding price, I personally think it is reasonable. I remember spending over $100 for headers, and about the same for a Holley carb and a cam back in 1968, so in today's dollars $1000 is pretty reasonable for the same sort of power gain.

that price is kind of steep.But new age of engines so i guess new age prices..soo long to the 4-500 price tags for tunes.

Would love to buy one but it is hard to justify the price to the other half.

Pricing is $995.

Without a doubt, the most HP per dollar of any mod you can make to the HHR!



I've done custom and handheld tunes in the past. So I have one question to ask that I can't believe hasn't been asked already.

What are the HP gains with this tune? You've got a very bold statement there, what are the facts?

I've done custom and handheld tunes in the past. So I have one question to ask that I can't believe hasn't been asked already.

What are the HP gains with this tune? You've got a very bold statement there, what are the facts?

I'll expand a bit more on your question, and you are right, no one bothered to ask :confused: .

What are the gains over stock and what do the HP and torque curves look like?

We've got more dyno information posted on our website, with more to come, but her's a good example of the PPC results on an automatic transmission Solstice with the same 2.0 LNF engine:

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/ecoboost/Before-AfterPPCHPOnly.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/ecoboost/Before-AfterPPCHPOnly2.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/ecoboost/Before-AfterPPCHPOnly3.jpg

This is a 3-gear pull, with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th represented. The lower line is stock; the upper line PPC equipped, but otherwise stock. I am showing three graphs to illustrate the peak power gains in each of the three gears.

As you can see, the gains are impressive, especially in 2nd gear, where the car picks up a stunning 50% power increase! This is on an otherwise stock car, and the results simply destroy any other method of increasing power in dollars spent vs. HP gained.

How much of an increase in boost are seen with the program installed? What is the A/F ratio? If you do bolt on to the vehicle latter when more stuff comes out will it be ok with the tuner or run the car lean?? Such as a Downpipe full exhaust??

How much of an increase in boost are seen with the program installed? What is the A/F ratio? If you do bolt on to the vehicle latter when more stuff comes out will it be ok with the tuner or run the car lean?? Such as a Downpipe full exhaust??

Typically, boost is increased 10-20%. There's no blanket answer for this, for the amount of boost increase varies with gear selection, as does the stock boost level.

A/F ratios are maintained in the 11-12:1 range.

The tuner is compatible with some modifications, but is best suited to otherwise stock vehicles. It's so much more 'bang for the bick' than hard parts replacements, and considerably less of a 'red flag' than such parts when you go in for warranty service! Subtle but outstandingly effective.

that price is kind of steep.But new age of engines so i guess new age prices..soo long to the 4-500 price tags for tunes.

I don't agree that the price represents either modern dollars (as suggested by c2vette) or engine technology/complexity. Based on the fact that "other tunes" (defined as 'a wide variety of offerings for a wide variety of vehicles by a wide variety of suppliers') are indeed most often in the $400-500 range (I've recently bought a Westers canned tune for a Vortec engine, which was in this range, and before doing so, I priced other options). I believe that Hahn is looking for a high-return on its investment in this product, and as such that's THEIR business decision to make. Having said that, the MARKET (that's us) will decide whether that business model is appropriate... but, for now, it is really the only option, and so early adopters must pay the price. (I may well be one of those early adopters).

I don't agree that the price represents either modern dollars (as suggested by c2vette) or engine technology/complexity. Based on the fact that "other tunes" (defined as 'a wide variety of offerings for a wide variety of vehicles by a wide variety of suppliers') are indeed most often in the $400-500 range (I've recently bought a Westers canned tune for a Vortec engine, which was in this range, and before doing so, I priced other options). I believe that Hahn is looking for a high-return on its investment in this product, and as such that's THEIR business decision to make. Having said that, the MARKET (that's us) will decide whether that business model is appropriate... but, for now, it is really the only option, and so early adopters must pay the price. (I may well be one of those early adopters).
I'd like to add that the actual MSRP for this product is currently near $1200, yet we have held the line at under a grand, even as the dollar has continued to fall against the euro. Fact is, we make less on these than ever now!

Nonetheless, it remains the best bang for the buck available. Hundreds of satisfied customers to date will agree!

Damn...I would totally hit this up...seems like an awesome bang for your buck ratio....however I would hate to void my precious warrenty...

Damn...I would totally hit this up...seems like an awesome bang for your buck ratio....however I would hate to void my precious warrenty...
You bring up a great point. Allow me to elaborate...

ANYTHING you do to your car to increase its performance runs the risk of jeopardizing your powertrain warranty. That being said, it pays to keep a low profile pertaining to modifications on your car while it is so close to new. More conventional mods such as boomy exhausts and flashy air intake systems are significant Red Flags when you visit your dealer. Subtle mods that fly 'under the radar' and are easily reversible are much better choices.

Installed my Hahn (ppc/BSR) tune today. Great results, 22-24 psi boost in all gears (including first) using 93 Octane. With the stock tune it was very annoying that first gear boost varied from 6 psi to 10 psi with no way to predict what you would get at any given time, so eliminating that random variability alone is worth it for me. Everybody has their own opinion on whether to tune or not, and how much HP is enough, but for me this was exactly what I was looking for. I tend to drive smoothly and am easy on equipment, but long term reliability answers are of course a couple of years away at least. I am planning on a clutch upgrade at some point.

Installed my Hahn (ppc/BSR) tune today. Great results, 22-24 psi boost in all gears (including first) using 93 Octane. With the stock tune it was very annoying that first gear boost varied from 6 psi to 10 psi with no way to predict what you would get at any given time, so eliminating that random variability alone is worth it for me. Everybody has their own opinion on whether to tune or not, and how much HP is enough, but for me this was exactly what I was looking for. I tend to drive smoothly and am easy on equipment, but long term reliability answers are of course a couple of years away at least. I am planning on a clutch upgrade at some point.

Excellent! I can now check of the "waiting to hear from c2vette" checkbox. Now I've just got to work the cost into my budget, and then put a few more miles on the car to shake out any early issues before I mod.

Installed my Hahn (ppc/BSR) tune today. Great results, 22-24 psi boost in all gears (including first) using 93 Octane. With the stock tune it was very annoying that first gear boost varied from 6 psi to 10 psi with no way to predict what you would get at any given time, so eliminating that random variability alone is worth it for me. Everybody has their own opinion on whether to tune or not, and how much HP is enough, but for me this was exactly what I was looking for. I tend to drive smoothly and am easy on equipment, but long term reliability answers are of course a couple of years away at least. I am planning on a clutch upgrade at some point.
Thank you, c2vette. We appreciate your business! Have fun and please keep us posted.

are these tuners available for 5spd and auto?

are these tuners available for 5spd and auto?

ecoboost can provide a definitive answer, but I would imagine most of the tune work has been done on the engine, not the auto trans data... it's up to the driver to keep the engine spinning at the right RPM range for optimal performance (hence my comment in another thread as to why anyone would EVER buy a turbo motor with an auto trans and expect "high performance"... the auto just doesn't allow sufficient driver control of engine and turbo speed).

are these tuners available for 5spd and auto?
Yes! :D

, but I would imagine most of the tune work has been done on the engine, not the auto trans data... ).

not real sure what your saying here. the graphs on his site say auto trans. there's no comparison between auto and 5spd stock to stock. the 5spd i drove would go right to 15-17lbs in any gear when put to the floor. the auto was real dissapointing to me with the way gm has it tuned. i'm real interested in knowing what 20-25lbs of boost would do for the 5spd wagon. i'm looking forward to ordering one up soon.

not real sure what your saying here. the graphs on his site say auto trans. there's no comparison between auto and 5spd stock to stock. the 5spd i drove would go right to 15-17lbs in any gear when put to the floor. the auto was real dissapointing to me with the way gm has it tuned. i'm real interested in knowing what 20-25lbs of boost would do for the 5spd wagon. i'm looking forward to ordering one up soon.

I'm saying...

ECM's generally have "maps" for engine performance characteristics, and "maps" for transmission behavior. In a manual transmission, most of the transmission "maps" go away. I would expect that, given the general flimsiness of the auto trans the HHR SS comes with, Hahn and PPC haven't spent much time tweaking transmission behavior (shift points, pump pressure, etc.), and instead have spent their R&D effort working on engine characteristics.

And re stick and auto, as I've said in a few other threads, a turbo vehicle with an auto transmission is a VERY poor performance combination. The whole value of a turbo is to keep it spooling at optimum... you simply cannot do this with an auto transmission where you have no real control over shift RPM and over the "between" shift engine RPM (with an auto, the engine RPM falls between shifts... as it's designed to, and so the turbo spins down, hampering the engine's ability to make power as it goes into the next gear. With a stick, the driver simply needs to blip the throttle between shifts to keep the turbo spinning optimally.

It just depends on what you want out of it. I am more than pleased with my Auto SS. It has all the power I need. I just wanted something that had decent power, handling and good gas mileage. If I had wanted the fastest car around I would have probably opted for the 5 speed.

It just depends on what you want out of it. I am more than pleased with my Auto SS. It has all the power I need. I just wanted something that had decent power, handling and good gas mileage. If I had wanted the fastest car around I would have probably opted for the 5 speed.

Completely agreed. I'm speaking in terms of those interested in "performance enhancement" ... in the '90's (and I'm sure now as well) as Asian import cars starting down the performance route, a lot of people bought the "Honda DX" cars hoping to turn them into "Si's"... but were sadly disappointed that their base platform wasn't intended to do much more than it was designed from the factory. The "ricer" was born... because of their base platform, they were relegated to adding wings and stickers. While the SS auto isn't quite the same, it is inherently limited in the performance realm by the auto trans, whereas (to a point), the stick is not (that "to a point" being where the relatively wimpy Getrag transmission starts coming apart :( ).

My comments about auto trans turbo cars isn't intended to be a knock against them, but rather a bit of notice to owners that it is not a base platform from wihch you will likely appreciate significant gains by performance mods. Except in the corner case of highly modified track-only drag racing, the auto trans is, by design, a significant comprimise between performance and convenience. By all means, drive it and enjoy it like it is.

the auto trans is, by design, a significant compromise between performance and convenience. By all means, drive it and enjoy it like it is.

I Plan to!!!!!!!

Does anyone have numbers on a 5 speed? Making an automatic faster should be easy. It comes detuned from GM. :D

Does anyone have numbers on a 5 speed? Making an automatic faster should be easy. It comes detuned from GM. :D
The 5 speed is also way faster than stock. The increase in boost from stock 15 psi (6-10 in first) to 24 psi in all gears does just what you would expect. Motor feels and sounds smooth and healthy running at full boost (on 93 octane).

The 5 speed is also way faster than stock. The increase in boost from stock 15 psi (6-10 in first) to 24 psi in all gears does just what you would expect. Motor feels and sounds smooth and healthy running at full boost (on 93 octane).

24psi in all gears with the auto would have to make it real kick to drive as long as the tranny did'nt fall apart. nobody has any info for the 5spd with that kind of tune-up yet?

We should have some before/after dyno results shortly for the 5-speed...perhaps as soon as next week.

Yeah I would like to see the video of an SS pulling the said 24 psi of boost in all 5 gears and hold it. Im not buying the 24 psi deal and its only running in the 14's in the 1/4. My 05 SRT4 dynoed 330 to the wheel and Im pushing 22 psi and the car went 13.1 on stock 205 tires with a 2.4 60ft at 110. So 24 psi on an SS should put it in the 12's but the tuners are saying 14's. This is why I dont belive the numbers posted on psi.

Yeah I would like to see the video of an SS pulling the said 24 psi of boost in all 5 gears and hold it. Im not buying the 24 psi deal and its only running in the 14's in the 1/4. My 05 SRT4 dynoed 330 to the wheel and Im pushing 22 psi and the car went 13.1 on stock 205 tires with a 2.4 60ft at 110. So 24 psi on an SS should put it in the 12's but the tuners are saying 14's. This is why I dont belive the numbers posted on psi.
Bear in mind, PSI of boost is relative to a host of factors including engine displacement, vehicle weight, gearing, turbo size...it goes on and on. Boost is really more of an effect of all these factors than a standard of comparison. As such, it's not an effective yardstick to use to compare vehicles quite as different as HHR SS and SRT-4.

Everything Ive read says that the SS has a bigger turbo than an SRT4 with a little bit smaller displacement engine. Weight difference is with in a few hundred pounds? If an SS is truly making 24 psi and is only running 14's Ill never buy a programmer Ill leave it stock. Thats hideous the displacement between bothe cars are so small that the psi in boost should even them out. Especially with the amount of air the SS would be moving at 24psi regardless of gearing these cars arent that far apart in gearing besides I would prefer the car with the longer gear on a Turbo car.

Boost makes all the difference on Turbo cars it makes up for lack of displacement or na horsepower. What Im saying is that who ever posted 24 psi show me a video of the SS holding 24psi through all 5 gears I dont belive it will hold 24psi.

show me that video Ill be waiting. I hope Im wrong because I have an SS also.

I'd like to add some factors to consider here. As a purveyor of SRT-4 performance parts, and the proud owner of my own 11.87 second, 122 MPH street-tired SRT-4, I can draw some effective comparisons!

SRT-4:
Curb Weight 2970 lbs.
2.4L engine
With an on-track weight of 3200 pounds, it would require 390 engine HP (332 WHP) to go 110 MPH. Something fishy there..the stock turbo will not support 390 HP.

HHR SS:
Curb Weight 3280 lbs.
2.0L engine
With an on-track weight of 3510 pounds, it would require 429 engine HP (365 WHP) to go 110 MPH. Yee-haaa!

The difference between a 2.0 and a 2.4 is large...20%, or the same difference as between a 350 and a 427 V8. Significant for sure.

The stock SRT-4 turbo is too small to maintain good boost performance at high RPM once turned up...but in no case can it support 390 HP.

In ANY case, the slightly larger turbo of the HHR, with the much smaller engine, WILL hold good boost pressure all the way to redline, unlike the SRT. Will it go low 13's like its lighter friend with the bigger engine (SRT)? Only time will tell ;)

I have it installed, and that is what the factory guage reads 24 psi tapering off to about 22 psi at redline.

Just curious... has anyone verified that this is a genuine mechanical boost gauge? I know the DSM's and several other turbo cars have used electric "sort of" gauges to indicate general vacuum/boost rather than the more reliable mechanical method.

Some "pre-sales" questions for ecoboost...

1) Might you be Bill, Jr? If not, who are you and what's your role with HR?

2) For the tune, I understand your desire to marry the product to the vehicle, and assume you write back the VIN or other identifying number on first read. What happens if the user has to replace a bad or crash damaged ECM? How does he get the programmer to unmarry to the old unit and re-marry to the new one? Or is he out $1k?

3) Your web site indicates the programmer can get upgraded maps via download. So... when I go beyond a stock motor + flash, and add bigger injectors or a bigger turbo, etc., I'm ASSuming I can get prettier maps via download. Is that something that you'll offer the user free (assuming we're sticking with HR "stage xx" type of upgrades? Ex: I add your T3 turbo (or whatever)... will you provide an appropriate tune download to go with it? Or... are the tune maps adaptive enough to deal with other mods such that adding a bigger turbo doesn't just put me in a lean condition?

4) What parameters does the Ecotec use for mapping fuel curves? MAPS, TPS, speed/rpm???

5) Whoops... one more... you offer the BOV in recirculating and venting versions. You mention that some enginee management systems expect to see the recirculation of that pressure. What about the Ecotecs in the HHR? I'd much prefer the venting version... but don't want to freak out the computer because of it.

6) There is no #6... yet ;)


I decided to ask these here as others are likely interested in the information as well. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a tune, but want to make sure I have an additional upgrade path without re-spending a lot of money.

Thanks in advance.

Just curious... has anyone verified that this is a genuine mechanical boost gauge? I know the DSM's and several other turbo cars have used electric "sort of" gauges to indicate general vacuum/boost rather than the more reliable mechanical method.
This aspect has come a long way since those old DSM's that 'calculated' boost from MAF readings. While it is in fact an electronic gauge, it's rather accurate on the HHR.

Some "pre-sales" questions for ecoboost...

1) Might you be Bill, Jr? If not, who are you and what's your role with HR?

2) For the tune, I understand your desire to marry the product to the vehicle, and assume you write back the VIN or other identifying number on first read. What happens if the user has to replace a bad or crash damaged ECM? How does he get the programmer to unmarry to the old unit and re-marry to the new one? Or is he out $1k?

3) Your web site indicates the programmer can get upgraded maps via download. So... when I go beyond a stock motor + flash, and add bigger injectors or a bigger turbo, etc., I'm ASSuming I can get prettier maps via download. Is that something that you'll offer the user free (assuming we're sticking with HR "stage xx" type of upgrades? Ex: I add your T3 turbo (or whatever)... will you provide an appropriate tune download to go with it? Or... are the tune maps adaptive enough to deal with other mods such that adding a bigger turbo doesn't just put me in a lean condition?

4) What parameters does the Ecotec use for mapping fuel curves? MAPS, TPS, speed/rpm???

5) Whoops... one more... you offer the BOV in recirculating and venting versions. You mention that some enginee management systems expect to see the recirculation of that pressure. What about the Ecotecs in the HHR? I'd much prefer the venting version... but don't want to freak out the computer because of it.

6) There is no #6... yet ;)


I decided to ask these here as others are likely interested in the information as well. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a tune, but want to make sure I have an additional upgrade path without re-spending a lot of money.

Thanks in advance.

You're welcome! Enlightenment to follow...

1) I am indeed the Bill Hahn Jr. you refer to. Howdy!

2) The Tuner is married to the VIN. As long as the car isn't destroyed, even a new PCM would be loaded with the same VIN. If a car does get totaled...well, we've not had to cross that bridge yet, thankfully! But I daresay that with proper documentation, even this won't be a problem.

3) The Stage I Tune, as supplied, is calibrated to work with an otherwise stock vehicle. We've learned that it is tolerant of simple bolt ons like exhaust and intercooler upgrades. For big power later on, such as a larger turbo, we are developing tunes and ancillary equipment that will allow the retention of the Tuner.

4) The LNF Ecotec looks at literally dozens of factors to arrive at the final injector pulse width. While it is primarily a MAF-based system, there's considerably more going on 'behind the scenes'.

5) Recirculating is the way to go with LNF, and may remain so. It's not as 'swooshy', but the airflow calculations are so meticulous that I do not see an open discharge valve suiting it.

6) Non-answer. :roll:

Thanks for your interest!

i like the things i see in answer #3 :D . any idea til the rest of us may have an opportunity for the exhaust and intercooler upgrades you mention, or any other "bolt ons" you may be working on? i hate these dumb black pipes for our intercooler piping, and would really like some nice looking pipes. i'm trying to keep myself from spending too much on this car for now, and the piping would be as much visual as anything else, and that's my justification for it lol :lol:

Thanks, Bill, for the detailed responses... BTW, we spent a LOT of time on the phone together many years ago working through some pieces of my milti-stage EFI turbo bike... back when blow-through turbos were the only thing around, I was putting together a "real" system for my drag bike. You were very helpful in getting me some of the pieces and parts to make it happen. Sadly, for what I spent in money alone, today, I could by a trailer full of Hayabusas that are almost as fast straight from the factory :(

Given your answers above, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the programmer. Are they in stock and ready to ship? If so, I'll probably call next week to order.

i like the things i see in answer #3 :D . any idea til the rest of us may have an opportunity for the exhaust and intercooler upgrades you mention, or any other "bolt ons" you may be working on? i hate these dumb black pipes for our intercooler piping, and would really like some nice looking pipes. i'm trying to keep myself from spending too much on this car for now, and the piping would be as much visual as anything else, and that's my justification for it lol :lol:
Thanks for the great interest! Yes, we are working on solutions to the pipes, intercoolers, and the like...should have product later this summer.

Thanks, Bill, for the detailed responses... BTW, we spent a LOT of time on the phone together many years ago working through some pieces of my milti-stage EFI turbo bike... back when blow-through turbos were the only thing around, I was putting together a "real" system for my drag bike. You were very helpful in getting me some of the pieces and parts to make it happen. Sadly, for what I spent in money alone, today, I could by a trailer full of Hayabusas that are almost as fast straight from the factory :(

Given your answers above, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the programmer. Are they in stock and ready to ship? If so, I'll probably call next week to order.
Wow, a blast from the past! How fun :smile:

Yes, always in stock and ready to rock.

Another point for anyone who is curious, the MPG seems unaffected for normal commuting speeds. I have also come to the conclusion that it will be wise to return to the stock tune for wet weather. One more reference, on a nearby private road, there is a point from the driveway entrance where spirited driving but not dragstrip launches would previously yield 80 mph. That same point, with the same driving technique is now 102 mph. So we are not talking about just a mild incremental improvement here. This tune is awesome, and I can't imagine anyone will be disappointed with it. (Stage 1 tune, 93 octane).

This tune is awesome, and I can't imagine anyone will be disappointed with it. (Stage 1 tune, 93 octane).

Ah, I knew there'd be a question #6 for Bill... Does the tune automatically adjust for lower octane fuel? Or... will I need to be concerned about detonation and warm weather 'spirited' driving? I'm a recent transplant to CA, and have yet to find anything better than 91.

Yes the ecu will still adjust for lower grade fuels and hot weather....and trust me this thing is a beast when you tune it....the best bang for the buck by far...mine put down 328ft/lb and 272.5hp at the wheels....thats some were in the 300hp and 380ft/lb at the crank.

Ah, I knew there'd be a question #6 for Bill... Does the tune automatically adjust for lower octane fuel? Or... will I need to be concerned about detonation and warm weather 'spirited' driving? I'm a recent transplant to CA, and have yet to find anything better than 91.
Cali fuels can be a challenge, but we've had great success there so far. Should be no problem!

Yes the ecu will still adjust for lower grade fuels and hot weather....and trust me this thing is a beast when you tune it....the best bang for the buck by far...mine put down 328ft/lb and 272.5hp at the wheels....thats some were in the 300hp and 380ft/lb at the crank.

would it be safe to say that a 5spd would be able to put down 300+hp at the wheels with a similar tune-up?

Ah, I knew there'd be a question #6 for Bill... Does the tune automatically adjust for lower octane fuel? Or... will I need to be concerned about detonation and warm weather 'spirited' driving? I'm a recent transplant to CA, and have yet to find anything better than 91.
1) stay away from "octane boosters" most make very little difference in true octane, and many will foul your sparkplugs (eventually). You will hear folks "swear by" certain brands, but do your research and read the tests and draw your own conclusions. 2) For off-hwy use, mixing Toluene (which is about 114 octane) at 10-20% with 91 octane has always worked fine for me to get to approx 93-95 octane (just wear proper gloves, eye protection, and have fresh air when fueling (just like you should for gasoline)) Ace has Pure Toluene, which is mandatory. Check your local motorcycle shops for race gas, there is a myriad assortment of unleaded (some oxygenated, some not) that can be mixed with 91 octane, expect $60 to $80 for 5 gallons, call the supplier for recommendations. http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html#unleaded 3) For regular hwy commuting the tune seems to work fine at 91 octane, and retards timing to protect the engine at full boost. This is all just my opinion, but it is based on experience. Do your own research, and draw your own conclusions.

good info in this thread. should be a sticky!

my car is a 5spd man w/ lsd

Decided to cut loose with the change for the tuner today... after 3 calls and 4 hours finally got a call from a sales dude who didn't even know if they were selling the tuner or not........ he stops while talking to me to read an email, and then says "Oh yeah, I guess we are selling them."

????????

Suppose to get an email back to supply the VIN, trannie, etc. well, guess what, no freaking email.......

If the tuner is as "good" as the sales staff, my grandkid fed Wheaties and on his bike is going to dyno better!!!

Hate to think what kind of treatment I'd get if I spent more than a grand!!!

Robin the phone gal is really cool, chat with her, it's a heck of a lot more fun than the sales dude!!!!!!!

Everything Ive read says that the SS has a bigger turbo than an SRT4 with a little bit smaller displacement engine. Weight difference is with in a few hundred pounds? If an SS is truly making 24 psi and is only running 14's Ill never buy a programmer Ill leave it stock. Thats hideous the displacement between bothe cars are so small that the psi in boost should even them out. Especially with the amount of air the SS would be moving at 24psi regardless of gearing these cars arent that far apart in gearing besides I would prefer the car with the longer gear on a Turbo car.

Boost makes all the difference on Turbo cars it makes up for lack of displacement or na horsepower. What Im saying is that who ever posted 24 psi show me a video of the SS holding 24psi through all 5 gears I dont belive it will hold 24psi.

Since you have obviously done drag racing before you have to know a little something called altitude does to a car especially a boosted one. With a lower altitude the computer in the car is actually going to cut back the boost I noticed down in VA beach I was only making about 12PSI where as here in Northern VA I am constantly at 18psi with the higher elevations. The computer in the car regulates the boost so the car will will make the same power in death valley as it will in denver. Personally id rather have a car that does this automatically rather than manually and risk blowing up the engine. I really dont care what the car is making whether its 5psi or 30psi as long as the car is making the power I need than i dont care.

Even though I am very very Anti-Hand tuner I didnt realize that your graph was on the automatic so I will probably be ordering one soon as I get my seats installed to give me an extra edge against some of my stronger competition in autox B stock class (having trouble against a few RX8 and R32) I believe the extra ponies will give me the extra second I need around the course. And since I am Anti-hand tuner and have a dyno right down the street I will do a before and after and if the tune is crap I will record me unloading 30rds of 5.56 into it so dont let me down guys LOL. Dont let me down. LOL

With a lower altitude the computer in the car is actually going to cut back the boost I noticed down in VA beach I was only making about 12PSI where as here in Northern VA I am constantly at 18psi with the higher elevations.

Yup... boost is just a number, especially when compared between unlike systems.

"My xyz car runs 10 psi."
"Oh yeah, we'll my abc car is running 15... and it's blue."

... all equally relevant info (especially the color ;) ).

And on the altitude thing, the hardcore guys who run Pike's Peak are in the 80# range... yowza! Of course, at 13,000 feet, it takes a LOT of boost to capture those precious few air molecules and mash them down into the engine as it rotates.

1) stay away from "octane boosters" most make very little difference in true octane, and many will foul your sparkplugs (eventually).

Yes, of course. Those $8 cans of acetone are ego boosters more than anything else (I'm picturing an old beat up truck hanging out at the local drive-in on a Friday night with a couple of empty Schlitz cans and an empty 104+ can in the bed, with the pimply-faced driver begging people to "run it.")

I did a little Intarwebnet research on CA gas and, basically, it appears the formulation method is to squeeze all the chemical energy out of it, and just leave it as "wet stuff" that's now $4.59/gallon :(

Cali fuels can be a challenge, but we've had great success there so far. Should be no problem!

Since your on the subject of fuels what kind of gains if researched are you getting with race fuels or will you not even see any gains. Cause if I do get this tuner there may be times where I will be racing in locations that have 99 octane but I dont want to waste the money if im not going to get any gains out of it.

Decided to cut loose with the change for the tuner today... after 3 calls and 4 hours finally got a call from a sales dude who didn't even know if they were selling the tuner or not........ he stops while talking to me to read an email, and then says "Oh yeah, I guess we are selling them."

????????

Suppose to get an email back to supply the VIN, trannie, etc. well, guess what, no freaking email.......

If the tuner is as "good" as the sales staff, my grandkid fed Wheaties and on his bike is going to dyno better!!!

Hate to think what kind of treatment I'd get if I spent more than a grand!!!
I must admit, even Robyn was entertained by your dogged persistence Friday :smile: I think we counted a total of something like five calls and emails over the course of several hours. Gotta love that kind of enthusiasm!

An explanation is surely in order. The fellow you spoke to was actually doing dyno testing (he's an actual technician, much more than a 'sales guy') on, wouldn't you know it...an HHR SS yesterday! This did keep him out of the sales loop for some hours.

We don't have 'talking head' salespeople here, who sit by the phone and can fill your ear with lovely but empty platitudes anytime you call. Our staff are all skilled technicians who develop and build product, answering sales calls on an 'as can' basis. We feel the quality they present is well worth the wait, should you call at a time when they are engaged with other activities. Never fear...we WILL call you back :smile:

As for the availability of this product, you spoke to him at a great time! He took a break from dyno testing to return your calls, and thanks to the dyno work we were doing yesterday, the tuner has now been cleared for further sales...an event that literally occurred while you were on the phone. This is a deeply technical venture, and we are very methodical about quality, so we take the requisite time to analyze results and refine the product first before wide release. Rest assured, this is VERY much in yours, and other customers' best interests!

Don't worry...you can count on the fact that if you spend over a grand, you'll get even MORE of this attention to detail and quality. But you still may have to wait until we are available to call you back.:D

I don't know if he had time to get you the email (he was back on the dyno for the remainder of the day), but our policy is to send them out within a business day, so you'll see it no later than Monday morning. He's in today (Saturday) doing overtime, so it may happen today.

I think if you do further business with us, you'll find our customer service to be most 'cool', even if it's not instantaneous in every instance (especially with new product). We are dedicated to quality, and our long-standing reputation stands as testament to our approach.

Thank you for your order!

Mr. Hanh......

My persistence was necessary because I was told calls would be coming, they never did... to make that many calls to acquire a $1,000, "new product" is a wee bit troubling... And the email was also "on its way"...

Us guys have a genetic deficiency that requires instant gratification when we make high dollar purchases....... frustration becomes rampant when carry thru appears to be non-existant.........

I have to say, technicians are great folks, seems like a round peg in a square hole, though... I'd much rather have the expertise improving the product than being interrupted by ol' dudes living their second childhoods with 4 cylinder hot rods!! :D

As I said in my pm, I wish you well in exceeding your own expectations on this product and I look forward to receiving mine...

And, my apologies to this forum for being "off course"... I followed the thread, got juiced about the product, and tried to get one.. should have reported what happened in a different thread... again, my apologies to all...

Best to everyone....Just an ol' DirtyDog.........:bow:

Mr. Hanh......

My persistence was necessary because I was told calls would be coming, they never did... to make that many calls to acquire a $1,000, "new product" is a wee bit troubling... And the email was also "on its way"...

Us guys have a genetic deficiency that requires instant gratification when we make high dollar purchases....... frustration becomes rampant when carry thru appears to be non-existant.........

I have to say, technicians are great folks, seems like a round peg in a square hole, though... I'd much rather have the expertise improving the product than being interrupted by ol' dudes living their second childhoods with 4 cylinder hot rods!! :D

As I said in my pm, I wish you well in exceeding your own expectations on this product and I look forward to receiving mine...

And, my apologies to this forum for being "off course"... I followed the thread, got juiced about the product, and tried to get one.. should have reported what happened in a different thread... again, my apologies to all...

Best to everyone....Just an ol' DirtyDog.........:bow:
We apologize if you were given the impression that return calls would be coming any sooner than they did. We'll typically return calls several times a day, so the wait can be up to several hours.

While we'd like to say that calling us back several times will work, it won't...if we aren't freed up to return your previous message or voicemail yet, we also aren't able to take any new incoming calls. It's the busiest time of year for us, but we do get the job done!

I'll pass your experience along to my staff to make sure that they aren't providing overly optimistic impressions about how quickly calls can be returned or emails sent out. Thanks for pointing it all out, as customer satisfaction remains our goal!

I had great support from Aaron at Hahn, including 2 immediate e-mail responses at 10:00pm at night his time. He explained the "sync" process, etc, and all went smoothly. Make sure you follow the steps in the manual, including for the display readouts you get.

[QUOTE=EcoBoost;271072]

The fellow you spoke to was actually doing dyno testing (he's an actual technician, much more than a 'sales guy') on, wouldn't you know it...an HHR SS yesterday! This did keep him out of the sales loop for some hours.[QUOTE]


can you tell us the results of the HHR SS that was tested yesterday?
And also explain the recent "updates" made to the tuner for our vehicles?
I also am thinking seriously about the tune to purchase for my SS (Auto).
any additional info is always appreciated........................Tom

I just returned home from my trip to Hahn Racecraft for an afternoon of dyno testing on Friday where they did before and after dyno runs and road testing. They have my 07 GXP Solstice at there shop doing a turbo upgrade, and other goodies.

First I would like to thank Bill Hahn Jr. for taking the time to stop working on his other projects and spending the afternoon with me and also for letting Aaron work with us on all the testing. I was there for 4+ hours and I think it just shows how interested and involved they are in the HHR SS. I know Bill spends a lot of time on the phones with his customers and so does Aaron, but I know when Bill posts the dyno results you will all be impressed. Again a big thankyou guys, it was great.

Now on to the good stuff. I have to agree with everything that crazysteve and c2vette have said about the tune. IT IS AWSOME!!
I can remember when we first put the BSR tune in my Solstice GXP and I couldn't beleive the difference in how the car preformed. It was like going from a standard Solstice to the GXP. The increase in power is amazing and it is really cool to stand on it in low gear and when the turbo boost comes in and the tires break loose it just reminds me of my old 69 bigblock Camaro. This car is a real blast to drive and again I am very impressed with the BSR tune and it has to be the best bang for the buck....

I drove the car home, 300 miles ( only with a lot more boost ) the same as I did on the way up to try and compare gas millage. On the way up the avg was 31 without the air on and on the way home it was 32 with the air on. So for the guys that are worring about the tune causing it to use more gas I would say it will do the same if not better IF YOU CAN KEEP YOUR FOOT OUT OF IT which was really hard with all the new power. Know I can go out and play and see what this car will really do.

My car is a 5-speed. Also with the tune in 1st and 2nd the rev limiter is set at 7000 rpm. This really helps and the car will run up to 70 mph in second.

Again I wish to thank Bill and Aaron for a very fun filled afternoon. :one:

Bill Hahn Jr ,
Do you have dyno numbers?:D

Here's a 3rd gear graph, before and after PPC.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/ecoboost/PPC3rdgearbefore-after.jpg

The HP gain is pretty impressive! Stock is red, PPC Tuner is blue.

The 'bump' and immediately following sag in power is from the rapid, violent spool-up of the turbo during a one-gear pull. The boost peaks high, then levels off to its intended setting. It also 'recorded' over 330 ft. lbs during this rapid onset of boost, but that isn't really valid. These turbos hit HARD!

Then...

Here's a four gear graph, where I literally start from a 1500 RPM roll in 1st gear, then shift thru the gears to 130 MPH.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k297/ecoboost/PPC1-2-3-4before-after.jpg

Now, the stock is blue, the PPC Tuner is red.

This is a much more realistic depiction of what the car does on the road. You can see there's a significant gain in all gears, but wait...the HP peak is less than shown in the one-gear graph. What gives? Well, LNF is continuously adapting boost level...it's a 100% active boost controller system. What it does on a one-gear pull can be a bit different from the more real-world multi-gear pull.

You can see that we also extended the RPM range in 1st and 2nd to 7000 RPM. She don't make much more power up there, but extending this means you'll bump the rev limiter much less often with the newfound ponies!

You may also note that the gains above 110 MPH are not as marked. This is a standard aspect of the tuning approach...we predicate 0-60 and passing times over all else, and we keep it healthy above 110 MPH by backing down the aggressiveness of 20-plus PSI boost. It's DEFINITELY in y'alls best interests, for it is those high-speed high-load excursions that kill more engines than anything else. 140 MPH in an HHR is just whack anyway!

I would have bet serious money it was over 300 WHP from the way it feels. Looking at the graph, I think I understand why, looks like 50-60 more hp at 3700 rpm or so. That huge midrange boost makes a big difference. Could also be that the 330 ft-lb transient you talk about is really felt on a quick "point and shoot". Only complaint I have is that I wish the rev limiter was also set to 7000 rpm in 3rd, as well as 1st and 2nd. Reason being, some casual 1/4 mile runs required a shift to 4th at about the 1100 ft point, yielding about 105 mph finish, if you could carry third all the way the ET would be better, and maybe mph too. How do you cool the intercooler for dyno runs? Seems like you would need a lot of airflow to simulate 90 mph+.

I would have bet serious money it was over 300 WHP from the way it feels. Looking at the graph, I think I understand why, looks like 50-60 more hp at 3700 rpm or so. That huge midrange boost makes a big difference. Could also be that the 330 ft-lb transient you talk about is really felt on a quick "point and shoot". Only complaint I have is that I wish the rev limiter was also set to 7000 rpm in 3rd, as well as 1st and 2nd. Reason being, some casual 1/4 mile runs required a shift to 4th at about the 1100 ft point, yielding about 105 mph finish, if you could carry third all the way the ET would be better, and maybe mph too. How do you cool the intercooler for dyno runs? Seems like you would need a lot of airflow to simulate 90 mph+.
We use a strong fan, but yes...there's some heat soak evident in those four-gear pulls.

can you tell us the results of the HHR SS that was tested yesterday?
And also explain the recent "updates" made to the tuner for our vehicles?
I also am thinking seriously about the tune to purchase for my SS (Auto).
any additional info is always appreciated........................Tom
The updates are ongoing and continuous at this point, but we are just about ready for wide distribution. Enjoy the dyno graphs!

Mr. Bill.....

Now that we're seeing an exhaust product and intake for the SS will the tuner handle those changes as we upgrade or will we need to download an "update" down the road??

Many thanks!!

Ed

Who makes this intake and exhaust product you speak of?

Mr. Bill.....

Now that we're seeing an exhaust product and intake for the SS will the tuner handle those changes as we upgrade or will we need to download an "update" down the road??

Many thanks!!

Ed
We'll have to test to ensure compatibilty. News at 11!

http://chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15568

I've had my car for three weeks, But I am getting this as soon as I get some miles on the car.

We'll have to test to ensure compatibilty. News at 11!

I would love to see you test this Mr Hahn cause personally I think the Intake and Muffler (im not calling it an exhaust cause its not) is rubbish. But personally I dont think you should have to test it out cause I think CGS should do it.

Why in the world do you want a vendor "testing" their own product for compatability with someone else's product???

You're harpin' about pics, dyno, etc. then you want them to tell you their product doesn't work by THEM testing it???

Lots rather have Mr. Bill & his crew, from an independent standpoint and also wanting to maintain the rep of their product, do the work... They'll lay the results on us and not have any "marketing strategy" in the game.....

Mr. Bill.... As an fyi..Magna Flow tells me they are within a "few weeks" of releasing their new pipe & muffler

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=all&id=6120

I would love to see you test this Mr Hahn cause personally I think the Intake and Muffler (im not calling it an exhaust cause its not) is rubbish. But personally I dont think you should have to test it out cause I think CGS should do it.

Why in the world do you want a vendor "testing" their own product for compatability with someone else's product???

You're harpin' about pics, dyno, etc. then you want them to tell you their product doesn't work by THEM testing it???

Lots rather have Mr. Bill & his crew, from an independent standpoint and also wanting to maintain the rep of their product, do the work... They'll lay the results on us and not have any "marketing strategy" in the game.....

Mr. Bill.... As an fyi..Magna Flow tells me they are within a "few weeks" of releasing their new pipe & muffler

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=all&id=6120

it seems that you two guys keep going at it.....the purpose of the forum is to share info, which is being done here, whether the info is good or not so good. I understand both sides and your reasoning behind it. but that doesn't mean taking shots at one another. I feel that CGS should test their product and show proof as to their performance claims. I also feel that it would be quite beneficial to have Bill also test the products to determine the compatability as he stated, and to see what they actually can do. we are all looking to increase the performance of our SS's, so lets compile as much info from as many sources that we can, so we will all be a more informed buyer, when we finally make our decision to purchase. just my:2cents:

The market will take care of everything anyway..... Bad rep will travel fast...


:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Here's a four gear graph, where I literally start from a 1500 RPM roll in 1st gear, then shift thru the gears to 130 MPH.


Looks like any turbo upgrade would benefit significantly from some vane trimming, and it looks like the stock turbo's spindle is just too light to carry any momentum through the shifts. I realize you don't want that spindle to weigh too much, but that between-shift dropoff seems excessive. Also, I wonder how much immediate benefit might come from a better BOV to help with the pressure offloading during shifts. It seems clear that the stock setup is a compromise in many ways... as would be expected from the factory ($$$, fedregs, etc.).

BTW, which shifting method did you use? The "normal" lift gas-stab clutch-shift? Or did you use that "no lift" feature that apparently exists in the HHR?



The updates are ongoing and continuous at this point, but we are just about ready for wide distribution. Enjoy the dyno graphs!

Have you established a distribution channel for upgrades yet? Or is it still a "hey, they've got a new file... call and see if you can get it" delivery mechanism? I did sign up for your HHR maillist, but haven't see a peep from it yet, so I'm hoping that's not the update notice mechanism :( ... On the same lines, do you have a beta user pool for updates? Or is it all in-house testing until you're ready to do the update release?

it seems that you two guys keep going at it.....the purpose of the forum is to share info, which is being done here, whether the info is good or not so good. I understand both sides and your reasoning behind it. but that doesn't mean taking shots at one another. I feel that CGS should test their product and show proof as to their performance claims. I also feel that it would be quite beneficial to have Bill also test the products to determine the compatability as he stated, and to see what they actually can do. we are all looking to increase the performance of our SS's, so lets compile as much info from as many sources that we can, so we will all be a more informed buyer, when we finally make our decision to purchase. just my:2cents:

I understand what you mean thats why I am bowing out I havent said anything negative to this guy I was just providing my opinion and thats all it is an opinion I have stated that time and time again.

Anyways to get back on topic, Mr Hahn have you guys tried any racing fuel with the tune yet and is there any improvement.

I just got off the phone with Hahn placing my order for the BSR tune. After dialing their number and mashing one of the IVR selections, I got Bill himself. He sent me to Robyn, who took my order without a hiccup. Looks like ship date isn't until next week... so I'll be eagerly awaiting arrival.

I just got off the phone with Hahn placing my order for the BSR tune. After dialing their number and mashing one of the IVR selections, I got Bill himself. He sent me to Robyn, who took my order without a hiccup. Looks like ship date isn't until next week... so I'll be eagerly awaiting arrival.

Do let us all know, or at least me for sure since I am interested, know how it treats you. I want to know if it's worth it!

Do let us all know, or at least me for sure since I am interested, know how it treats you. I want to know if it's worth it!
So you don't trust me? Short answer =definitely, unequivocally, worth it.

Are there any max HP/TQ #'s overall? I have just seen graphs showing HP increases in select gears. I see a 4 gear one that shows about 272hp. Is this stating that with this tune you get 272 whp?

Also have there been any 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times?

I have not been following this thread religiously, so if these are already addressed please point me to the post # or page and accept my apology. If not I am interested in seeing some.

So it's not that I don't trust you. I would just like to see some #'s before I even think about it. But I was surprised you stated you would have sworn it was 300 whp. 300 whp is a lot, so if it feels like that I would be happy!

But, very interested in overall HP gain to the wheels, 1/4 mile time, and 0-60 time, as well as total chp and tq.

Thanks!

Also, not to jack the tuner thread, but any idea of a time frame for turbo back, intake (better be a real cold air intake) BOV setup and IC piping?

I am interested in pretty much all of those plus more.

Are there any max HP/TQ #'s overall? I have just seen graphs showing HP increases in select gears. I see a 4 gear one that shows about 272hp. Is this stating that with this tune you get 272 whp?

Also have there been any 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times?

I have not been following this thread religiously, so if these are already addressed please point me to the post # or page and accept my apology. If not I am interested in seeing some.

So it's not that I don't trust you. I would just like to see some #'s before I even think about it. But I was surprised you stated you would have sworn it was 300 whp. 300 whp is a lot, so if it feels like that I would be happy!

But, very interested in overall HP gain to the wheels, 1/4 mile time, and 0-60 time, as well as total chp and tq.

Thanks!
First I want to qualify this answer by saying that this is by no means an "official time", but we we did several runs on a private road, and over a measured and exact 1/4 mile, with 320 lbs of passenger and driver + 60 lbs of subwoofer and amp, 1/2 tank fuel, we were getting manually timed mid 13's and 104-107 mph (indicated) with very soft first gear starts, then full throttle from 2nd through 4th, and not speed shifting. (93 octane). Before tune, with the same methods but harder 1st gear start I was getting high 14's, at about 96 mph ( I think road test showed more like 99 mph though). Hopefully better data will come along. Regarding the dyno graphs, I am thinking that insufficient airflow through the intercooller may have affected results (IMHO).

First I want to qualify this answer by saying that this is by no means an "official time", but we we did several runs on a private road, and over a measured and exact 1/4 mile, with 320 lbs of passenger and driver + 60 lbs of subwoofer and amp, 1/2 tank fuel, we were getting manually timed mid 13's and 104-107 mph (indicated) with very soft first gear starts, then full throttle from 2nd through 4th, and not speed shifting. (93 octane). Before tune, with the same methods but harder 1st gear start I was getting high 14's, at about 96 mph ( I think road test showed more like 99 mph though). Hopefully better data will come along. Regarding the dyno graphs, I am thinking that insufficient airflow through the intercooller may have affected results (IMHO).

come on dude. just take it to the track and take out the guess work. :poke: timeslips don't lie. :smile: bang the piss out of it through all gears and lets' see what she's got...............with the extra weight out of it and a small set of drag radials on the front you might have a 12 sec ride. that would be cool as hell.

i love this tread, saving my $$

I just got off the phone with Hahn placing my order for the BSR tune. After dialing their number and mashing one of the IVR selections, I got Bill himself. He sent me to Robyn, who took my order without a hiccup. Looks like ship date isn't until next week... so I'll be eagerly awaiting arrival.

I got a login to BSR today. Not sure what I need to do with it, but I hope this means my tuner is on the way. BTW, I noticed the charge for the tuner on my online cc statement... shipping is ~ $30... c'mon, Bill. That cost you $10 to ship... including the box. Stick to the high performance business, not the shipping business :( Still looking forward to the product.

I got a login to BSR today. Not sure what I need to do with it, but I hope this means my tuner is on the way. BTW, I noticed the charge for the tuner on my online cc statement... shipping is ~ $30... c'mon, Bill. That cost you $10 to ship... including the box. Stick to the high performance business, not the shipping business :( Still looking forward to the product.
Have you checked UPS rates lately? Holy Cow, I shipped a small box "3 day" back east, and with $600 insurance coverage it cost me $55. yikes!

Have you checked UPS rates lately? Holy Cow, I shipped a small box "3 day" back east, and with $600 insurance coverage it cost me $55. yikes!

Why yes, yes I have... 5 minutes ago, 8# box going from Yorkville, IL to San Jose, CA.

UPS Ground
Billable Weight: 8.0 lbs.
4 By End of Day
Wednesday
June 18, 2008 15.49 USD

That's the retail counter rate. Maybe the box weighs more (I'll be surprised if it even tips the scales at half that) and/or maybe he shipped a faster service level than I was expecting. But if it went ground, and weighs 8#, that's at least $15 shipping profit (and likely more based on the 35% discount tier I was at when I used to ship with UPS). It's not a deal-breaker... just echoing what Bill mentioned in one of his posts above about being a 'real shop' that focuses on performance... getting into the "shipping profit" business is not consistent with that philosophy in my estimation... and it's a little annoying... like when you were in college and you went to pay your tuition and found out there was a $78 "Library use fee" and a $142 "Campus improvement fee." That's all I was pointing out in my previous post.

I got a login to BSR today. Not sure what I need to do with it, but I hope this means my tuner is on the way. BTW, I noticed the charge for the tuner on my online cc statement... shipping is ~ $30... c'mon, Bill. That cost you $10 to ship... including the box. Stick to the high performance business, not the shipping business :( Still looking forward to the product.
Our apologies! We charge a flat rate of $28.95 to ship these anywhere in the lower 48. As we've skimmed two hundred bucks for your pocket (and out of ours!) from the suggested list price for these, we were confident the overall deal was still rather good.

Nonetheless, I'll inquire with my warehouse folk and see if there's any room to move on this shipping charge. It's such a turbulent arena these days, as costs skyrocket due to diesel at five dollars a gallon in some regions!

In any case, Enjoy, and most of all...thank you :)

Our apologies! We charge a flat rate of $28.95 to ship these anywhere in the lower 48. As we've skimmed two hundred bucks for your pocket (and out of ours!) from the suggested list price for these, we were confident the overall deal was still rather good.

In any case, Enjoy, and most of all...thank you :)

Thanks for the info on the flat rate. Robin didn't know the shipping at order time, and learning that it was $28.95 wouldn't have caused me to cancel... my 2 cents (3 after inflation)... how about $1020.00 shipped as an advertised price? The "+ S&H" is an annoyance to the consumer space much like the "$29.99" is... we all know that we won't get it unless it's shipped (with the obvious exception of locals), and we all know that $29.99 is really $30. So if the "marketing" games as I describe above don't actually mean anything, why bother with them? That's a rhetorical question, but (anyone) feel free to answer it... I've never met anyone who didn't realize that shipping costs someone, nor have I met anyone who got excited about saving a penny on something priced a $29.99.

If nothing else, my last few posts (and this one) are cheap therapy for my frustration with marketing games that almost every business on the planet has bought into.

And, as before... I'm eagerly awaiting the tuner. I need to go whoop some hide off the stock Redline at the corporate apartment I'm stuck in until next week.

Just shipped a small box UPS (3 day select $26.15 + Service options $7.20 + Fuel Surcharge $7.32 = $40.67)

I am still wondering about the warrenty issue here. It says you can return it to the stock config in a snap, but is there any way for the dealer to tell I was using a tune if I take my ride in to get something fixed or whatever? I really wanna snag this tune, BUT it is not worth voiding out my warrenty. I am just curious how well this thing covers its tracks. I have never purchased a tune for a vehicle before so I am still trying to learn how everything works.

I would also like to know if the computer in the car will show an over boost:D that a tech might find.

I know that my powerstroke's will show an over boost code when using a programmer.

I am still wondering about the warrenty issue here. It says you can return it to the stock config in a snap, but is there any way for the dealer to tell I was using a tune if I take my ride in to get something fixed or whatever? I really wanna snag this tune, BUT it is not worth voiding out my warrenty. I am just curious how well this thing covers its tracks. I have never purchased a tune for a vehicle before so I am still trying to learn how everything works.

The tuner doesn't "cover its tracks" ... it simply flashes back and forth between stock (which it captures from your ESM and stores) and custom. Unfortunately, with changes made to ECM logging in the past couple of years (almost certainly for GM to deal with the very issue of tunes), they are now recording timestamps to each ESM flash... some have indicated that this ECM logs the last 10 flashes). All this means is that GM _can_ tell when the ECM has been flashed, but no what was done to it. However, that's certainly enough for them to argue in favor of voiding warranty if the vehicle owner can't substantiate that GM-authorized flashes were done as part of some service need. And GM's records certainly aren't going to show this service being done. Bottom line is... you ARE risking a voided warranty situation. If that is your overarching concern, you shouldn't get the tune. However, there are certainly "performance enthusiast friendly" dealerships where either 1) they're not going to look for an end-to-end history every time you have a warranty claim, or 2) they're going to realize you've been flashing it and not really worry too much about it. #2 is probably going to be harder to find... and if your warranty claim involves your crankshaft sitting on the ground in 2 pieces, likely impossible.

My bigger concern about this tune is the 93 octane gas! I now know I can boost Cali 91 to 93, however with high gas prices and buying additives to the tank I doubt if I will try the tune!!!Most hand held tuners I have had adj. for 89,91 or 93 octane. Both my other cars are supercharged and dyno tuned. Mr.Hahn IMHO Cali drivers are going to need your product to work great on 91 not just ok.

My bigger concern about this tune is the 93 octane gas! I now know I can boost Cali 91 to 93, however with high gas prices and buying additives to the tank I doubt if I will try the tune!!!Most hand held tuners I have had adj. for 89,91 or 93 octane. Both my other cars are supercharged and dyno tuned. Mr.Hahn IMHO Cali drivers are going to need your product to work great on 91 not just ok.

So Bill just needs to turn the "use lower grade fuel" knob up in the tuner? Uh... while we're asking for him to magically unleash energy from lower grade fuels that just isn't there, we probably ought to up the request to... say... 85 octane, or maybe used KFC grease.

I sincerely doubt that Bill is holding back on a super boost to the tune he offers now because he's in collusion with the gas companies to drive 93 octane fuel sales. You get what you get... and if 91 is what you can buy, you get a tune that does the best it can with the reduced chemical energy. Which, by the way, is better than the stock tune on the fuel with reduced chemical energy.

Sounds like you're just trying to talk yourself out of buying a tune. Nothing wrong with that decision... but base it on something reasonable.

Thanks for your opinion! I hope Mr.Hahn needs sales people for his products Your hired!!!!:thumb: Though I cant speak for him like you have:bow:

Will the launch control and no-lift shift work the same with this upgrade?

So Bill just needs to turn the "use lower grade fuel" knob up in the tuner? Uh... while we're asking for him to magically unleash energy from lower grade fuels that just isn't there, we probably ought to up the request to... say... 85 octane, or maybe used KFC grease.

I sincerely doubt that Bill is holding back on a super boost to the tune he offers now because he's in collusion with the gas companies to drive 93 octane fuel sales. You get what you get... and if 91 is what you can buy, you get a tune that does the best it can with the reduced chemical energy. Which, by the way, is better than the stock tune on the fuel with reduced chemical energy.

Sounds like you're just trying to talk yourself out of buying a tune. Nothing wrong with that decision... but base it on something reasonable.

being reasonable means we don't want to rattle the pistons out of these things if the tune is to aggressive for 91 octane.

Thanks Boosted:thumb:

Will the launch control and no-lift shift work the same with this upgrade?



Yes it will, I have used it several times. You will also like the added rpm's in 1st and 2nd. It helps keep you off the rev limiter.:D

Yes it will, I have used it several times. You will also like the added rpm's in 1st and 2nd. It helps keep you off the rev limiter.:D

Nice, won't be getting this right away but before too long. I remember how my 20th AE GTI felt after I got REVO for it. I expect the same feeling with this but much quicker. :cool:

being reasonable means we don't want to rattle the pistons out of these things if the tune is to aggressive for 91 octane.

Or... you could read the thread.

http://chevyhhr.net/forums/showpost.php?p=270419&postcount=59

Or... you could read the thread.

http://chevyhhr.net/forums/showpost.php?p=270419&postcount=59

sweet. that also means you didn't have to be a dick. ;)

Hey Guys,
I wanted to pop in and share the LNF love. I've got a 2008 Solstice GXP, before that I owned the S/C SS Cobalt. I love HHRs and would have bought one for my wife but she thinks "they're old people cars" and wanted the R/T Charger instead.

On the Solstice forum we've got a few years of experience with Bill Hahn. His shop does good work and sells good stuff. Your opinions are appreciated but most of the hearsay will turn out to be BS if the Hahn HHR mods go as well as they have for the Kappas. Bill's stuff is a bit expensive but it is usually really good. Bill is the only shop with an available 2008 tune, other shops have been working on it but no one has been able to yet come up with any similar gains. HP Tuner sucks for our engines, there are very few perimeters that can be adjusted through HPT currently. HPT is having a hard time with the Bosch computer. So as for right now this is your only option unless you want a half-ass tune via HPT while using resistors to restrict the MAF readings.

I have never purchased anything from Bill but I might based on how well his products and services have performed for the Solstice/Sky communities.

Good news guys. I received a call from Bill Hahn today and they have my SS disassambled getting measurements for a bigger intercooler and intercooler pipeing. He also is going to look at the exhaust. They make the best replacement intercooler for the GXP so I know the one for the SS will be just as good. It will be awhile before he has the parts ready but it will definitly be worth the wait. My GXP runs really strong and it is an automatic so the SS being a 5-speed should be a real blast when he has everything compleated.:thumb:

Good news guys. I received a call from Bill Hahn today and they have my SS disassambled getting measurements for a bigger intercooler and intercooler pipeing. He also is going to look at the exhaust. They make the best replacement intercooler for the GXP so I know the one for the SS will be just as good. It will be awhile before he has the parts ready but it will definitly be worth the wait. My GXP runs really strong and it is an automatic so the SS being a 5-speed should be a real blast when he has everything compleated.:thumb:

sweet! way to sacrifice the car for a while and take one for the team. i can't wait! :high five:

You guys are killing me with your new tune! I ordered 2 days ago and sent in the Vin# etc to HRC. I have an 07 Vette with 500HP to the wheels, but that in Vette terms is mild, however the HHR SS #'s are going to be far more fun to play with other peoples rice burners!:one: :one: Surprise buddy:nuts:

sweet. that also means you didn't have to be a dick. ;)

It's my specialty, especially when someone asks a question that's already been answered (sometimes repeatedly) without even bothering to read the thread and/or using the forum search feature. It's called spoon-feeding, and it's annoying to many.

just picked up our ss last night and just spent allot of time reading thru this post. has me kinda giddy to think of another 40 or so hp available. and in the tuning community a grand for 50 hp. is a huge gain. im going to spend double that to supercharge my sunfire this winter. for the same 50 hp gain.


my question is engine strength. i know with the 2.2 ecotecs at around the 300 hp mark some of the internals start to fail. how strong are the 2.0 internals. anyone know what the magic number is for things to start going boom? going to build the ss for street and show and want more power but i want it reliable as well as this is the wifes daily driver for now.

just picked up our ss last night and just spent allot of time reading thru this post. has me kinda giddy to think of another 40 or so hp available. and in the tuning community a grand for 50 hp. is a huge gain. im going to spend double that to supercharge my sunfire this winter. for the same 50 hp gain.


my question is engine strength. i know with the 2.2 ecotecs at around the 300 hp mark some of the internals start to fail. how strong are the 2.0 internals. anyone know what the magic number is for things to start going boom? going to build the ss for street and show and want more power but i want it reliable as well as this is the wifes daily driver for now.
This is a great write up (below) on the 2.0 to save. This is one strong motor! The HP levels we are talking here are easy on the motor, the drivetrain is the weak link.

http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Racer-Tech/ECOtec-LSJ-Build-Book/ECOTEC_2.0L_LSJ_Chap_1.pdf

good little read. good start. be nice if they did a build book on the 2.0 like the did on the 2.2. its nice knowing how much power each part can handle before it starts to go. a good start to my learning though. the ss purchase was just a quick unplanned buy for us and since were starting with a new more powerful hhr i want to get my hands dirty on it.

Any Track times yet with the Tuner? I don't care much for dyno reading but track times say a lot. MPH does to.

1/4 Times:
MPH:

My best 1/4 = 13.8 Best ET = 103....still getting use to the car and its been hot....hopefully see mid to low 13's by the end of summer.

My best 1/4 = 13.8 Best ET = 103....still getting use to the car and its been hot....hopefully see mid to low 13's by the end of summer.
Nice times. Anyone else have any times and mph?

Nice times. Anyone else have any times and mph?
We did several hand timed runs at mid 13's and 108 indicated recently. Judging by the well documented times for the Cobalt with the tune, I believe the 13.8 @ 103 is right on for the HHR with the tune. Upgraded intercooler, exhaust, track tires might get it close to the magic 13.

We did several hand timed runs at mid 13's and 108 indicated recently. Judging by the well documented times for the Cobalt with the tune, I believe the 13.8 @ 103 is right on for the HHR with the tune. Upgraded intercooler, exhaust, track tires might get it close to the magic 13.

also add a good cai and a hard pipe kit to go with the ic. i have no doubt a 13.0 is capable...with excellent driving and no shift lift,who knows 12.99:one:

Just a quick update on boost levels. I had commented that the boost seemed to be a bit less than when first installed, but that does not seem to be the case after all. I have been running a partial race gas mix to get the Cali octane up to 93, so that may have something to do with it. At any rate, regardless of gear (1st thru 5th) full throttle boost at 2500 rpm is 25 psi, tapering off to 22 psi at 3500 rpm, then (20 psi at redline verified thru 3rd only). This little turbo has virtually instantaneous response when you punch it, which makes me reluctant to upsize it since it is perfect for everday backroad fun. Avg speed =45 mph, avg mpg = 28.5 since install about 3500 miles ago.

This little turbo has virtually instantaneous response when you punch it, which makes me reluctant to upsize it since it is perfect for everday backroad fun.

I have no such reluctance. I need more flow. Bill... get that 20g kit together, and fast... money has burned a hole in my wallet and is currently spilling on the floor. :eek:

I will probably one do a couple of mods and this will be one of them. Intake and exhaust will be the next. I'm not looking for a 12 second HHR just a tad bit more power. I also want to see how others engines and transmissions hold up to the newly found HP and TQ.