(AP) — General Motors is closing four truck and SUV plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico as surging fuel prices hasten a dramatic shift to smaller vehicles.

CEO Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker's annual meeting in Delaware the plants to be idled are in Oshawa, Ontario; Moraine, Ohio; Janesville, Wis.; and Toluca, Mexico. He also said the iconic Hummer brand will be reviewed and potentially sold or revamped.

The announcement is an economic blow to Janesville, which long has been entwined with automaking. The sprawling GM plant has survived the Depression, a world war and GM's major layoffs in the 1980s, but it will not escape the latest round of corporate belt-tightening.

"There were some tears and a lot of people were kind of ticked off, but it's part of the business," said Scott Lambert, 39, who has worked at the plant for 13 years.

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The plant, GM's oldest, opened in 1919 and long was the largest employer in Janesville, a city of 60,000 about 100 miles northwest of Chicago. But cutbacks have shrunk the work force to about 2,600, so it's no longer the city's biggest employer.

Wagoner announced the moves in response to slumping sales of pickups and SUVs brought on by high oil prices. He said a market shift to smaller vehicles is permanent.

The moves will save the company $1 billion per year starting in 2010. Combined with previous efforts, GM by 2011 will have cut costs by $15 billion a year compared with 2005, Wagoner said.

GM shares rose 39 cents, or 2.2 percent, to $17.83 in morning trading.

The cuts will affect about 2,500 workers at each of the four facilities, although Wagoner did not know exact numbers. Many will be able to take openings created when 19,000 more U.S. hourly workers leave later this year through early retirement and buyout offers.

He said the company has no plans to allocate products to the four plants in the future.

"We really would not foresee the likely prospect of new products in the plants that we're announcing today that we'll cease production in," he told a Moraine, Ohio, city official who asked a question in a telephone conference call.

Henderson said the plant closure measures would reduce the company's capacity to produce pickups and large SUVs by 700,000 per year, about 35 percent.

He also said GM is planning for gasoline prices to stay around $4 per gallon for the foreseeable future, "with a bias upwards."

Pete Hastings, senior analyst with Memphis, Tenn.-based Morgan Keegan & Co., said GM's moves are painful yet prudent.

"It's a permanent shift, and they're right to recognize it," he said. "But is it enough? It's a bit early to tell. ... That's the hard part of gauging where we are in the economy — and how deep or strong the shift in demand is for more fuel-efficient vehicles."

Analyst Kevin Tynan of New York-based Argus Research Corp. said the Detroit Three automakers have been "caught with the market running away from them." While he recognizes GM's plight and efforts to overcome it, he still questions the aggressive push to market with the Volt, which is demanding heavy investment at a time when money is tight.

"It's very bad timing, very late in the game to be making big bets," he said. "At the same time, you don't have a choice."

GM also has just emerged from a spate of labor problems, with two local union strikes at key factories and a nearly three-month strike at key parts maker American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings Inc.

GM said in a recent regulatory filing the strikes will cost it a total of $2 billion before taxes in the second quarter.

I would think they would move the HHR to another plant to continue making it, seeing as how it is getting touted as 30mpg. It would be a shame to get rid of it after only four years. Especially if they can get anymore mileage out of the ecotec.

That is not the plant that makes the HHR. That is a fullsize truck plant

That is not the plant that makes the HHR. That is a fullsize truck plant

You are correct. This move by GM should have no affect on the HHR.

WHEW :thumb:

Yeah the article makes no mention of the HHR. Besides I belive its made on the same platform as the Cobalt. Now there is a rumor going around that the Cobalt might be history. Possibly a new named car coming next year.

HHR is built at the Ramos Arizpe plant.

GM Oshawa has held the reputation as the most productive, highest quality and lowest cost plant that GM has in North America. It figures those botards in the corporate offices would shut down their best. This after signing a contract with the union 2 weeks ago and getting 175 million from the gov't to keep jobs. What a bunch of sleezes. I might look at a Honda or Toyota next time.

You should have heard Buzz Hargrove at the TV press conference. That guy is pissed! :eek:

That is not the plant that makes the HHR. That is a fullsize truck plant

Bigger than fullsize. Toluca produces the Kodiak and GMC trucks 1 1/2 tons and larger.

We live about 30 minutes from the lordstown plant that builds the cobalts & G5. The whole region is abuzz with the annoucement of a new product starting in 2010. They said on the news this new car will get 40 mpg. They are starting up the third shift again this september, due to increased demand for the cobalt. I think the HHR will make it through another design cycle as it's a fuel efficient, small vehicle that has quite alot of utility for it's size. Sure been seeing many more on the road, finally catching on to what we've known about for a few years now!

I live in Oshawa and the employees "are" realy P....D:cussing: . The have shut down the road that leads to the corporate office in response to the company's decisions. Wagner has agreed to meet union officials in Detroit on Friday.
The whole city here is holding its breath. The Canadian government has also agreed to negotiate with GM to get another vehicle to build here. It's time all governments tried to assist citizens to try and keep their jobs. Where will their tax money come from when no one has a job left in manufacturing. No job= no tax for them to waste:roll: ...
I'm sorry about this, not trying to hijack the thread. I'm only a retired GM employee that has a lot of concern with GM's announcement:barf: .

Its all about GM trying to change with the times. The times require they build the most fuel efficient offerings they can, in order to compete. The age of the Gas Guzzler is coming to an end.

The age of the Gas Guzzler is coming to an end.
Just like it did in the early 70s, right.

I think its more an issue of GM not keeping up with a changing market. Thus, they are backed into a corner and have to make a drastic change right now. The HHR and similar vehicles are part of the solution though, so no worries.
I am puzzled about them persisting with Hummer though. :confused: They should be getting rid of consumer based gas guzzlers before trucks which are the backbone of many businesses.

I am puzzled about them persisting with Hummer though. :confused: They should be getting rid of consumer based gas guzzlers before trucks which are the backbone of many businesses.

I agree X 2! :thumb:

Just like it did in the early 70s, right.

2008 is not the early 70's. Peak oil is recognized as a valid theory by an increasing number of petroleum industry analysts. Please don't be like Nero, and demand proof that Rome is in fact burning, when there is smoke all around. ;) Peak oil boiled down is simply the fact that oil production world wide has peaked and will begin to decline. Taken in concert with demand increasing, the ramifications for the market should be clear.

Even if one wishes to dispute the theory that oil production has peaked or is peaking and decline is occuring now or is around the corner, one thing all petroleum industry experts tend to agree on is that the Age of Easy Oil is over. New discoveries are harder to tap or are tied up in tar sands or shale deposits, or they're just much deeper and/or may require deep ocean drilling to reach. All this adds much hgher expense to exploration and production.

Any auto maker that would refuse to acknowledge the above, dismiss it as the same situation as in the 1970's, and continue to plod the same manufacturing path without regard for what the vehicle consumer market will want/need in response to permanently elevated fuel prices resulting from the above described conditions... is then a manufacturer who will lose market share against the competition at a far more rapid pace than they may be currently.

In light of this, GM is only doing what any shrewd corporation would do to protect its ability to compete and remain a player in the game.

Shoot, last year GM's "claim to fame" was the "all new" offerings in big SUV and pickups! :confused:

Talk about being in the market with the wrong product at the wrong time!! :eek:

And, don't forget the (now being exposed) future's speculators (not politically correct to identify that element!) that offer absolutely nothing to any economy, other that reaping big $$$$$ off the top to the detriment of all of us. :eek:

GM Oshawa has held the reputation as the most productive, highest quality and lowest cost plant that GM has in North America. It figures those botards in the corporate offices would shut down their best. This after signing a contract with the union 2 weeks ago and getting 175 million from the gov't to keep jobs. What a bunch of sleezes. I might look at a Honda or Toyota next time.


Prior to Oshawa the title of most productive was Oklahoma City. They shut it down several years ago...just goes to show that it's not really productivity but luck of the draw as to which product you are making when you number comes up...

You are correct. This move by GM should have no affect on the HHR.

I agree. if anything, it should increase sales of the HHR.
We will probably see a body style change in 2010 also.

Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda continue to open new plants in North America, pay the same wages and benefits, and make a profit doing it. So why can't the big 3 do it?

Prior to Oshawa the title of most productive was Oklahoma City. They shut it down several years ago...just goes to show that it's not really productivity but luck of the draw as to which product you are making when you number comes up...

They shut it down because the union got greedy back in '99 and it wasn't worth the money to convert it back to a front-drive small car plant. After the similar stunt Fairfax, KS assembly pulled two months ago, I wouldn't be surprised if they're on the next list too.

OSHAWA IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN PEOPLE!!

Only the truck line. The car lines are remaining. Everybody knew medium-duty was going away with the sale to Navistar.

Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda continue to open new plants in North America, pay the same wages and benefits, and make a profit doing it. So why can't the big 3 do it?

Because Toyota and Honda do not have any legacy costs like the Big Three do. GM is the largest provider of health care and retirement pensions in North America. That health care and retirement is guaranteed for LIFE as long as you work to a certain time frame. Additionally, those new "plants" in North America are "assembly plants". They do not "make" anything there from start to finish. They even bring in the steel for the building from overseas!

Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda continue to open new plants in North America, pay the same wages and benefits, and make a profit doing it. So why can't the big 3 do it?

Honda isn't paying the same as union wages in the new plant in Indiana. My cousin just started, and his pay is $2.00 per hour less than what he was making. Although, he will be making about $3.00 more per hour than what he was makingat his last job, in about 3 years. But he will still be at only $22. per hr then. Most assembly workers for GM the big three earn more than that.

Because Toyota and Honda do not have any legacy costs like the Big Three do. GM is the largest provider of health care and retirement pensions in North America. That health care and retirement is guaranteed for LIFE as long as you work to a certain time frame. Additionally, those new "plants" in North America are "assembly plants". They do not "make" anything there from start to finish. They even bring in the steel for the building from overseas!


I think the key word is WAS not is, they are slowly taking that away..and i dont buy that anyway........got to many white shirts...... need to get rid of some of that DEAD weight first... never understood having 2 chiefs for every 1 indian......

and replacing new hires for alot less...... thats in the new so called contract.

I think the key word is WAS not is, they are slowly taking that away..and i dont buy that anyway........got to many white shirts...... need to get rid of some of that DEAD weight first... never understood having 2 chiefs for every 1 indian......

and replacing new hires for alot less...... thats in the new so called contract.

Are you talking about the dead weight that can show up late or not at all without notice, tell the supervisor/foreman where they can go when confronted, receives a $1,300 payment for being on the "Malibu Launch Team", and never has to worry about being fired because they have a union rep? Or are you talking about the people who get laid off just the same who have NO union benefits, NO jobs bank, and will be let go every time over a line worker?

The only dead weight are the people making life hell for everyone else. Trouble is you gotta give 'em a job for life or the whole plant will walk out.

i believe in UNION...... growed up union..... but thats one thing i dont agree with, and thats sticking up for someone that is obviously not doing there part or doing there job....and taking advantage of the system...thats where i myself draws the line.... if i do work then why cant everyone else do what they are suppose to do....

I fired a guy that was doing what you say was happening, late, etc, and i was threaten by my union brothers of walking out, told them go ahead if you want to stick up for a dead beat and one that hurts the rest of us do to production go ahead, but dont bother to show back up you to will have your pink slip, i was threaten of having a charges against me. which by the way didnt go any where. but thats what has happened to America work force..... I have seen it with electricians... i myself am tired of people getting handouts or favors ....... either you do your work or you get fired.....

but i still say part isTOO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS i have seen it first hand..... no company can expect to stay afloat when you have too many people that are in upper mgnt. and you keep cutting those who put the product together. to much non productive overhead......

but i still say part isTOO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS

I think a part of this might be in GM's basic corporate hierarchical structure, not necessarily because there are that many managers but because certain jobs are defined as managers when they're really not.

Case in point: my wife. She's considered to be in management, but she does exactly zero managing. Why? Because under the terms of the hierarchy engineers default to being managers. My wife is a mechanical engineer, not an MBA. Unfortunately, her qualifications don't matter: if they need a supervisor for a line, they'll pluck one from the engineers even if they've never had experience supervising a line, because of this muddled classification.

I can tell you that she dreads the thought of having to become a line supervisor. (right now she's a line I.E. for the machining floors for the 3.5/3.9L V6 and 8.1L V8 lines)

Oshwa..lol
Yes they were always the "best" when I worked for GM. There are more forces at play than just plant efficiency, or highest quality. A lot of things that Oshwa started have filtered throughout the corporation anyways.

i believe in UNION...... growed up union..... but thats one thing i dont agree with, and thats sticking up for someone that is obviously not doing there part or doing there job....and taking advantage of the system...thats where i myself draws the line.... if i do work then why cant everyone else do what they are suppose to do....

I fired a guy that was doing what you say was happening, late, etc, and i was threaten by my union brothers of walking out, told them go ahead if you want to stick up for a dead beat and one that hurts the rest of us do to production go ahead, but dont bother to show back up you to will have your pink slip, i was threaten of having a charges against me. which by the way didnt go any where. but thats what has happened to America work force..... I have seen it with electricians... i myself am tired of people getting handouts or favors ....... either you do your work or you get fired.....

but i still say part isTOO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS i have seen it first hand..... no company can expect to stay afloat when you have too many people that are in upper mgnt. and you keep cutting those who put the product together. to much non productive overhead......

You may have grown up with the union, but not the auto industry. It's a whole different ballgame with the UAW. Everyone goes to bat for each other, even if it's the laziest, tardiest person on the line, and the company will let go of ten salaried employees before they go through the trouble of trying to get rid of one hourly employee.

Fact is there's very few people "at the top" in the hierarchical structure of the corporation as a whole. In fact, there is probably more "dead weight" at the top of the union than at the top of the corporation in terms of proportion of management.

I've grown up with the auto industry. My family has been in it for five generations and my great-grandmother brought food to my great-grandfather who was one of the first sit-down strikers up in Flint back in the day. My own father worked for the company for 40 years, first half in the union, last half on salary. I will defend the American auto worker to the end and I will always buy from a domestic brand. What I will not let go is the "union vs. management" BS that's done nothing but erode the Big Three for 30 years. The line worker needs the engineers to design a car for him to build and the engineers need a reliable line worker to build the car they designed to a specification that'll keep the customers coming back for more. When the team forgets why that's important, the industry will fail.

Yeah, could you please remove the very misleading title you have up? The HHR is not being cancelled. Read autoblog's post on this at www.autoblog.com-they list the cars that are coming/going.

New people coming to this site, maybe wanting an HHR, are going to read that and forget the car.

^^^^That is one big sig^^^^

Could GM's other problem be simply that they have so many brands under one roof? Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, SAAB. Most Japanese automakers have two, a standard line and a luxury line (ie Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus). Seems to make more fiscal sense, IMHO.

Could GM's other problem be simply that they have so many brands under one roof? Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, SAAB. Most Japanese automakers have two, a standard line and a luxury line (ie Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus). Seems to make more fiscal sense, IMHO.

You forgot Saturn :D

The Japanese automakers actually do have more than two brands, they only MARKET two of them in the US. GM and Ford do the same thing overseas as well. GM's problem is that they diluted the US brand distinctiveness too much over the last 30 years and that's what killed Oldsmobile.

Hummer is probably going to go away and Saab will either be spun off or sold as well. I can forsee Saturn and Pontiac merging operations in the future, but Buick, GMC, and Cadillac will remain.

It's true GM must make their decisions on cutbacks, but if history sees it... Mr Wagner also watched his previous employer go down the tubes. He sat on his egotistic butt and did nothing until it was too late. Exactly what he has previously done for GM. Zippo!! If he had listened to some of the economic advisors that could see what the developments were in store for the future, he wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. GM actually paid shareholders a dividend a few years ago when there were losses to the company. How can anyone defend themselves when management makes these kind of decisions.
GM does need to get turned around and fast. But, if corporate execs keep thinking this way(Dividend Greed!, more companies are going to follow a downward trend. It's not all the lack of consumer, it's also the amount execs think they can take for justifying their worth. Do they really need to make as much as they think? It is difficult making companies profitable, but the needs for the execs has gotten way out of hand. Their salaries are way out of line and are sucking companies dry.They all hang with each other and will always justify that they are only getting paid by what is the norm in their world...not ours!! As for the unions, they are also getting stupidly(?) out of line. If a Rep. gets voted out, they always find a new title for the outed rep. somewhere to protect him from going back to the line. Why is it that these union reps that lost need special accommodation. You lose, yourrrrrrrrrr...OUT! Get back to the line, obviously he/she wasn't doing the job properly.

Do you remember the full sized Impala from the 1990's. Came in a wagon body and SS versions. Do you know about the C.A.F.E. regulations. The "big three" all found a huge loop-hole in the CAFE that allowed trucks, the as yet to be popularized "SUV" and the currently trendy "mini-Van", to not be counted in the fleet mileage average. Nevermind Clinton let this continue while at the helm.

The Impala was quite a profitable line. The plant in Texas was also profitable and made a great family of cars. GM saw that the loop-hole would not be closed and they could continue to make big gas pigs, not to mention slap together some "new" SUV's that were based on old truck platforms that had not evolved much from the last gas crisis in the 70's.

So GM killed the Impala line at the plant and coverted it to a bigger gravy maker - trucks. Average profit on those reskinned old pigs was about $4000. per.

If GM, and the other two, would have tried to meet the CAFE laws, as they signed up to do, rather than trying to find and exploit its intent with the loop-hole, we'd have been saving fuel for over 15 years by now.

You forgot Saturn :D



And lets not leave out:

Daewoo
Holden
Isuzu
Opel
Suzuki
Vauxhill

It's true GM must make their decisions on cutbacks, but if history sees it... Mr Wagner also watched his previous employer go down the tubes. He sat on his egotistic butt and did nothing until it was too late. Exactly what he has previously done for GM. Zippo!! If he had listened to some of the economic advisors that could see what the developments were in store for the future, he wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. GM actually paid shareholders a dividend a few years ago when there were losses to the company. How can anyone defend themselves when management makes these kind of decisions.
GM does need to get turned around and fast. But, if corporate execs keep thinking this way(Dividend Greed!, more companies are going to follow a downward trend. It's not all the lack of consumer, it's also the amount execs think they can take for justifying their worth. Do they really need to make as much as they think? It is difficult making companies profitable, but the needs for the execs has gotten way out of hand. Their salaries are way out of line and are sucking companies dry.They all hang with each other and will always justify that they are only getting paid by what is the norm in their world...not ours!! As for the unions, they are also getting stupidly(?) out of line. If a Rep. gets voted out, they always find a new title for the outed rep. somewhere to protect him from going back to the line. Why is it that these union reps that lost need special accommodation. You lose, yourrrrrrrrrr...OUT! Get back to the line, obviously he/she wasn't doing the job properly.

Um, it's called capitalism. Compensation packages for most executives usually aren't the reason why a company is going under. Their packages are usually a very small percentage of the revenue the company actually brings in. Declaring dividends was a smart idea a few years ago when investors were dumping GM stock like crippled puppies. The dividend slowed the selling of the stock and stabilized the value. Wagner is a million times better than Bob Stempel and Jack Smith ever were at running the company and the shareholders have rewarded him for it.

HHRCrafty, you must a salary employee...no.:smile:

I can't see anyone earning what the average Joe makes in a year in 1 or 2 days.:barf: Can you?

I can't see anyone earning what the average Joe makes in a year in 1 or 2 days.:barf: Can you?

I'm not an employee of GM, but my family goes back four generations in the industry including working for the Big Three.

You obviously have a different perspective on what it means to be successful. Nothing wrong with that. I could care less what the average joe makes or how hard he works for a living because I don't want to limit myself to that. I want the best of everything. I want to push myself harder than anyone else and farther than anyone expects me to go.

Maybe it's a different philosophy up in Canada, but in America the one great thing about this country is that you are limited only by your own self-motivation to achieving greatness and wealth. A lot of those CEOs spend their formative years working their butts off and in the end their job security is actually worse than the people working on the line. I do not want an uneducated, unmotivated "average joe" responsible for a multi-billion dollar revenue producing, publicly-held, global corporation. I want someone who is willing to step up and take the bull by the horns, and I'm going to pay them well if they're successful.

Viva le Free Market! It made America the shining beacon that other nations have aspired to for generations. It also allowed competition among the world's auto companies, all vying for the North American market that has brought today's unprecedented level of automotive choice and capability. The entire globe is deeply in America's debt for creating such a dynamic, unfettered market. It has resulted in amazingly advanced vehicles for everyone in the world!

When 10% of the people control 90% of the wealth, it should inspire the remaining 90% to work like hell to raise themselves up. This is the formula that made the USA great.

Some of those 10% are not worthy of their job titles or salary. The execs all take care of themselves no matter what they do. I'm just saying that some execs should not be in the positions they are in. If they are not successful(ie Wagner-never was!), they should be fired like anyone else that screws up. And their winfall of a termination parachute should be torn up and filed under 13...not given to them for their lack of performance. I call that executive crime when execs can manipulate their own guaranteed contract.

Some of those 10% are not worthy of their job titles or salary. The execs all take care of themselves no matter what they do. I'm just saying that some execs should not be in the positions they are in. If they are not successful(ie Wagner-never was!), they should be fired like anyone else that screws up. And their winfall of a termination parachute should be torn up and filed under 13...not given to them for their lack of performance. I call that executive crime when execs can manipulate their own guaranteed contract.
Without a doubt, I agree...there is abuse at the upper executive level. But I can't help but believe that, save for the ones that are hauled into court for wrongdoing, we'll never know who the real baddies are, for we just don't have enough data on who's who and what's what down at OUR level.