Results shown below after adjustments made.. No adjustment to the rears (no shims required) the front did need adjustments.

Just sharing my alignment results I had done on Friday 4/21/2006------- it was also I thought a fair price $50.00


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/hvrodpics/AlignmentHHR.gif

:thumb:........................................... .................................................. .................................................. ........ :thumb:

So what needed adjustment? I ask because I only see current readings...

Ng

So what needed adjustment? I ask because I only see current readings...

Ng

This was the results after the alignment..

There was no need for shims on the rear..

I had the cam bolts installed.... the front did need adjustment.
Everything is within specs..

I've heard .. some others say they didn't need the cam bolts..
(myself , I rather have them in for that added fine tune adjustment)

Did they adjust Toe, Camber, or both?

Ng

both.. and centered steering..

I've heard .. some others say they didn't need the cam bolts..
(myself , I rather have them in for that added fine tune adjustment)

If you are strapped for cash, you can go without them...my :2cents:

if anybody needs a set of camber bolts I have the ones I bought from Socal.I was going to install them but I am seriously strapped for cash.$35 shipped.PM me if interested..
Thanks
Jay

if anybody needs a set of camber bolts I have the ones I bought from Socal.I was going to install them but I am seriously strapped for cash.$35 shipped.PM me if interested..
Thanks
Jay

Bump for Skatetheglobe camber bolts f/s..

thats good to hear.

Happy Saturday...to everyone.... :D

Yes, Saturday is good. :thumb:

I still have the camber bolts for sale if anyone wants to save a few bucks..

I still have the camber bolts for sale if anyone wants to save a few bucks..

Put them up in the "Classified" section - that's where things for sale go. :red: (*You really should install them; you'll need them in later on when your HHR needs the camber adjusted...eventually.) :thumb:

If anyone needs their camber "adjusted", it is because it got whacked in an accident or something's worn out. There's a reason why there is no facility for adjustment to begin with.

And if you put the adjusting bolts in when you installed your lowering springs, well.... you just "whacked" your camber. There is no camber change with lowering. Just leave the factory bolts in there folks.

You will need to get the toe set. Lowering will give you about 0.5 deg. toe out, where the factory spec is for about 0.2 toe in.

This is all due to the suspension geometry and what changes and what does not with lowering.

BTW, if you lower your car, you need to remember to line up the headlights! With most of the springs offered, they'll be aimed too high after lowering.

Exactly Joe. It can't be adjusted without a kit though. Best to put it in for "free" while doing the drop, rather than paying to have it installed during an alignment later on...the bolts have to be removed anyway.

You will need to get the toe set. Lowering will give you about 0.5 deg. toe out, where the factory spec is for about 0.2 toe in.

This is all due to the suspension geometry and what changes and what does not with lowering.



You didn't get an "A" in geometery did you? :confused:

As the suspension lowers the camber goes negative. This is by design to increase -chamber when entering corners. The fact that toe in needed to be changed should have been a clue. Eitherway when you lower you HHR Camber will go negative. Not installing camber bolts or slotting the struts will leave the car with more - chamber than before it was lowered. This isn't all bad. I will improve cornering at the sacrifice of tire wear. Everything has a trade off.

It is possible if your car was on the + side of the factory spec it may now fall in the - side of the spec. All I can tell you is that my HHR has never been in an accident, hit a curb or anything like that and the Camber most definatly went negative after lowering to the point it was out of spec.

Better pocket the money you saved on camber bolts...you'll need it to replace your tires. I can almost garrentee the wear won't be covered under tire warrenty if you lower you HHR :D

So far everyone that I know that has used goldlines, and got it aligned, did not need the camber adjusted only the toe. I did not install the camber bolts and I took it to an alignment shop with almost twenty years of experience. It may be different with springtech springs.

Ng

Shouldn't the spring techs are about 1/2" less than Goldline. Like I said you can get it aligned, it will have more -camber when finished. This camber may be less than some other cars factory specs (Have you ever looked at a VW Getta). That still doesn't change the fact that camber will go negative when the suspension runs through it's downward travel. The ONLY way camber is not affected when lowering a car is if you have equall length upper and lower controls arms. The HHR doen't even have an upper control arm.

I'm not saying you can't get it aligned without the camber bolts...I just don't want others members to believe a false statement like "Lowering has no affect on camber", and more -camber has no side affects.

The front is about the same as the goldlines. it's the rear that is about a 1/2" less.

I'd say a LOT more than 1/2" difference.

Here are rear comparison shots of all 3 brands:

http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle6412.jpg

The top one is someone from the forum's (I think Navy Flyer?)

The middle one is Kenny's

The bottom one is mine.

When I shot pics of Kenny's with the Eibach's last week, Kenny remarked that parked side-by-side, his looked stock compared to mine with the Gold-Lines.

There are quite a difference between all three brands.

HEY!, I didn't give my permission to use my car. Well I guess I'll let you borrow it as long as return the keys, car (with no dents, scratches.) and fill up the tank.:nuts:

THAT IS A 1/2 INCH!!! AND I HAVE A 12 INCHER IN MY PANTS.

There are quite a difference between all three brands.
Now lets see the diff in the front. That would be nice to see. all kidding aside.:one:

I think the front differences would be microscopic compared to the rears. The Gold-Lines just seem to give the most "level" drop of all the springs currently available.

I just wanted to put the rear comparison pics out there for new owners who are considering a drop to see.
This way they can make a more educated decision as to which set they prefer. :thumb:

In my experience, strut front suspension systems will indeed suffer from more negative camber at rest after being lowered. That's just the nature of a single suspension arm, and the geometry difference once lowered. Depending on the Ackerman angle of the factory alignment, toe would not be changed much, if at all.

The HHR's rear geometries don't change at all when lowered, as the setup is a twist beam, similar to a live axle.

Here's some info from Ingalls training errata (The changes here are exaggerated, more like .5 degree change for the HHR):
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/9965/lowered39fg.jpg

FYI:

Chevy specs for the front camber on the HHR are -0.95 +/- 0.75 for the left and right front tires. After the goldlines I'm at -1.2 on the left and -1.1 on the right. So I have an extra -0.25 on the left and -0.15 with -0.5 & -0.6 left for adjustment.

In my experience, strut front suspension systems will indeed suffer from more negative camber at rest after being lowered. That's just the nature of a single suspension arm, and the geometry difference once lowered. Depending on the Ackerman angle of the factory alignment, toe would not be changed much, if at all.

The HHR's rear geometries don't change at all when lowered, as the setup is a twist beam, similar to a live axle.

Tokyo: just to clarify (and so no one else thinks I'm crazy!), I was not speaking regarding geometry - you are 100% correct in that regard. My comments "I think the front differences would be microscopic compared to the rears" were regarding the appearance of the front whellwells compared to the rear in the pictures above.

Camber does indeed change on the HHR when lowered, but as NG pointed out; GM has left us a pretty wide spread in the numbers:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/1_Alignment_Specs.jpg

...which means many people will get away without needing camber adjustment.

On the other hand - if you hit a curb in a parking lot and bend something, or someone backs into one of your front wheels - having the camber kit installed will save both time & money when taking your car in for a fix. Additionally, the stock lower strut bolts are splined, which makes removing them somewhat difficult:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Splined_Lower_Strut_BoltsSm.jpg

Since you have them out already when doing the drop, it makes the most sense to install the camber bolts when putting it back together. Otherwise some guy at the alignment shop will end up charging you twice the labor to do it later on...

Just my $0.02 :thumb:

THAT IS A 1/2 INCH!!! AND I HAVE A 12 INCHER IN MY PANTS.

:lol: Then I guess you ARE right! That must be 1/2" :D

I was actually trying to reinforce the need for the camber kit after lowering. Once the vehicle is lowered, the technician's adjustment window leaves less room towards + adjustment, else one pays out one's wazoo at one's favorite alignment shop. Perhaps I should have said that before, rahter than looking like a wanker now. And now you know, and knowing is half the battle... Nooch.

thanks for the info

I was actually trying to reinforce the need for the camber kit after lowering. Once the vehicle is lowered, the technician's adjustment window leaves less room towards + adjustment, else one pays out one's wazoo at one's favorite alignment shop. Perhaps I should have said that before, rahter than looking like a wanker now. And now you know, and knowing is half the battle... Nooch.

You don't look like a wanker Will! I just wanted to clarify my statements as this thread has made a few twists and turns (as usual!:lol: ). My last post with the pics was to show the great differences between the rear drop of all 3 spring kit brands. In that post I mentioned that the differences in the front drop (*wheelwell gap), wasn't as drastic as the rear. Just wanted it cleas I wasn't talking about CAMBER not being changed...because as you know, - it is. :D

We're all good...:thumb:

Mike, don't forget the disclaimer....You have 16"wheels. Kenny has 17's..

Mike, don't forget the disclaimer....You have 16"wheels. Kenny has 17's..

That all changes tomorrow. We will have new pics then too! :thumb:

"as NG pointed out; GM has left us a pretty wide spread in the numbers"

The reason GM left such a wide spec on the HHR is because the only adjustment that can be made on the line is toe in. This wide spec wasn't designed to benefit you it was for GM's benefit. The closer you are to the target spec the better tire life you will have.

Since the Plus size tires run more money. It won't take long scuffing off the insides of your tires before you've left the money you saved on a camber bolt kit out on the road. :steering:

Future Thread...Anyone else have excessive tire wear???:clappy:

True...I will be rotating my tires every 5,000 in an effort to minimize the wear pattern. These low profile tires are made of a soft compound and I'm guessing that these tires, regardless of drop, don't last as long as regular sized radials. The price we pay for performance and looks.

This is the first set of tires that I've owned that are not only directional but are also marked left tire and right tire. So I can only rotate them front and back, I won't be able to cross rotate them unless they are completely removed from the rim. Interesting...:roll:

Ng

True...I will be rotating my tires every 5,000 in an effort to minimize the wear pattern. These low profile tires are made of a soft compound and I'm guessing that these tires, regardless of drop, don't last as long as regular sized radials. The price we pay for performance and looks.

This is the first set of tires that I've owned that are not only directional but are also marked left tire and right tire. So I can only rotate them front and back, I won't be able to cross rotate them unless they are completely removed from the rim. Interesting...:roll:

Ng

True rotation is great..
On my speed demon car G35, the tires are different sizes... so no rotation is allowed... this was designed this way...

True rotation is great..
On my speed demon car G35, the tires are different sizes... so no rotation is allowed... this was designed this way...

HV you have Nitto's? Are yours also designated for left and right side?

Ng

HV you have Nitto's? Are yours also designated for left and right side?

Ng


Correct...
always make sure the alignment/balancing guys put them on the correct sides.. had a few times (in my G35) they installed them wrong..

Correct...
always make sure the alignment/balancing guys put them on the correct sides.. had a few times (in my G35) they installed them wrong..

I'll do it myself in my garage, I don't trust too many people with my vehicle. Bodywork and trani work are the only things I won't mess with. Everything else I try to do myself.

Ng

I'm leaving work early today to do
a MOD... its been done and mention in this forum before..(by vendors)

But, I'm doing it myself...

I'm leaving work early today to do
a MOD... its been done and mention in this forum before..(by vendors)

But, I'm doing it myself...

The suspense is already building up! :lol:

Ng

True...I will be rotating my tires every 5,000 in an effort to minimize the wear pattern. These low profile tires are made of a soft compound and I'm guessing that these tires, regardless of drop, don't last as long as regular sized radials. The price we pay for performance and looks.

This is the first set of tires that I've owned that are not only directional but are also marked left tire and right tire. So I can only rotate them front and back, I won't be able to cross rotate them unless they are completely removed from the rim. Interesting...:roll:

Ng

All radial tires are only supposed to be rotated front/back anyway. Changing sides (reversing their rotational direction), reverses the wear pattern causing them to wear twice as fast.

The only way to properly cross-rotate radial tires is to break them down off the rims and mount them on the opposite rims so they spin in the same direction. This can sometimes extend the life of tires with bad camber wear patterns.

Hope it helps,

Its has to be done...
nothing special this time...

All radial tires are only supposed to be rotated front/back anyway. Changing sides (reversing their rotational direction), reverses the wear pattern causing them to wear twice as fast.

The only way to properly cross-rotate radial tires is to break them down off the rims and mount them on the opposite rims so they spin in the same direction. This can sometimes extend the life of tires with bad camber wear patterns.

Hope it helps,

It don't matter, my tires are labeled left and right. I'm not about to have them taken off the rim and have them rebalanced every 5,000.

But I've seen plenty of owners manuals, shop manuals, where they show cross rotation and sometimes include the spare. Now this information is coming from the auto-maker :confused:

Ng

Now ,
After alignment, coil over shocks....
Fender Lip rolled.... I will say I'm now at 90 % for the rear suspension..
Just need the rear sway bar now....
Then the next mod......

I just got back from getting my HHR aligned. But, the shop didn't give me a print-out of the specs before alignment so I don't know how for off it was. I do know that I could feel it in the steering wheel that it needed to be aligned. I talked to mechanic who did it and he said that a camber adjustment was needed, so it was a good thing I had the adjustment bolts. He also mentioned that the rear is within specs but, to watch the tire wear on the rear tires and recommended eventually installing the shim kits.

I just got back from getting my HHR aligned. But, the shop didn't give me a print-out of the specs before alignment so I don't know how for off it was. I do know that I could feel it in the steering wheel that it needed to be aligned. I talked to mechanic who did it and he said that a camber adjustment was needed, so it was a good thing I had the adjustment bolts. He also mentioned that the rear is within specs but, to watch the tire wear on the rear tires and recommended eventually installing the shim kits.

If you install the camber bolts you will throw the camber off specs and it will 99.9% chance need to be adjusted. Most of us that did not install them did not need to have camber adjusted. GM made the specs so broad that they fall in even after the drop.

Ng

I installed the camber bolts and still didn't need a camber adjustment. But, it is nice to know I have the ability to adjust if I need too.:D

I installed the camber bolts and still didn't need a camber adjustment. But, it is nice to know I have the ability to adjust if I need too.:D

You're the .0001% :D

You're the .0001% :D
Yep! thats me.:nuts: :lol:

If you install the camber bolts you will throw the camber off specs and it will 99.9% chance need to be adjusted.
Ng

99.9% ?? Did you actually survey 1000 HHR owners that lowered their car AND installed camber bolts :roll:

or are these numbers you just pulled out of thin air. :D

Just :poke:

Lets see.... I didn't install camber bolts and my camber was out of spec just curious what the odds were for that? :confused:

99.9% ?? Did you actually survey 1000 HHR owners that lowered their car AND installed camber bolts :roll:

or are these numbers you just pulled out of thin air. :D

Just :poke:

Lets see.... I didn't install camber bolts and my camber was out of spec just curious what the odds were for that? :confused:

Wow if your camber was out of spec, you may want to look into that. GM gives us a lot of room to play with, that's why most of us don't require camber adjustment. Now Toe, so far everyone who I've heard from has needed adjustment, including myself. Are you talking about Camber or Toe?

Did you use Goldlines? If so then you are .0002% :lol: in other words you are only the second person I know of who needed camber adjusted after installing dropped springs. But If you didn't use Goldlines, then that changes everything...

Ng