View Full Version : MPG update -> After PCM tuning
chrisHHR 08-16-2008, 10:44 PM I am the first HHR customer to receive a 2.2L Ecotec tune from Trifecta Performance. You could say I was the Beta Tester I guess.
I'm up somewhere between 4-5mpg highway.
Today I did two 50 mile mileage tests. Average of about 68 mph for the 50 mile stretch, setting DIC to zero as soon as I was up to full speed on the interstate.
Trip 1 I-65 from north side of Nashville to Columbia TN: 36.0 MPG
Trip 2 (reverse of the above) 37.3 MPG.
This distance is pretty hilly, which kills the mileage. I have no doubt this car would hit 40mpg on a stretch of smooth flat highway like southern Indiana or just about anywhere else in the Midwest.
Car is an 07 2.2L automatic 1LT, only "mods" being Mobil 1 and the tuning from Trifecta Performance. Just google them to find their website.
wxman 08-16-2008, 11:12 PM I don't get it. If the engines are capable of 5 mpg better (which I'm not doubting), why did GM not tune them this way to begin with? What does the tune do different that GM did not deem appropriate/reliable for the masses?
chrisHHR 08-17-2008, 09:12 AM Tuning for emissions and tuning for mileage aren't the same thing. In maximizing MPG you're probably not going to run as clean.
"Stoichiometric" air-to-fuel mixture of 14.7:1 is considered ideal for burning clean, but a little leaner mixture will produce better MPG but higher amounts of certain exhaust "pollutants".
Then there's warranty issues. A manufacturer shoots for a goal, for example something like 1 warranty claim per 10,000 vehicles lets say. Its possible their tune is more conservative from the factory because of this, whereas an owner like myself, who already takes good care of his car, can run a tune that's a little more aggressive in terms of leaning out the fuel and adding timing. GM can't control the maintenance habits of its customers so it has to tune for the worst case scenarios.
Lone Ranger 08-17-2008, 09:50 AM Leaner than 14.7:1 may also damage your valves, but... I don't believe it is possible to tune part-throttle operation A/F ratio-- the ECM works with the oxygen sensor to achieve as close to optimal (14.7:1)A/F ratio in real time as it can once you're in closed loop (coolant temp beyond a certain temp threshold). If you've ever watched a real time scanner you can see the oxygen sensor at work. The O2 sensor in front of the catalyst is for A/F ratio the O2 behind the catlyst is for emissions monitoring. A/F ratio tuning is usually only for WOT (Wide Open Throttle) operation. Playing with spark advance parameters in the ECM is a different story, but this can also lead to a need to burn premium fuel.
Tuning for emissions and tuning for mileage aren't the same thing. In maximizing MPG you're probably not going to run as clean.
"Stoichiometric" air-to-fuel mixture of 14.7:1 is considered ideal for burning clean, but a little leaner mixture will produce better MPG but higher amounts of certain exhaust "pollutants".
Then there's warranty issues. A manufacturer shoots for a goal, for example something like 1 warranty claim per 10,000 vehicles lets say. Its possible their tune is more conservative from the factory because of this, whereas an owner like myself, who already takes good care of his car, can run a tune that's a little more aggressive in terms of leaning out the fuel and adding timing. GM can't control the maintenance habits of its customers so it has to tune for the worst case scenarios.
a76marine 08-17-2008, 10:48 AM What is Trifecta's claim for this tune? Increased economy or increased performance, etc?
How long have you had the tune installed? Did you do an exact similar run as you listed above before the tune?
courthousedeb 08-17-2008, 11:11 PM A friend of mine with a 2006 2.2L HHR has also been working with Vince at Trifecta. He was the 1st 2.2L of any year to be done on 8-2-08...and is very pleased with the results. He is also an authorized Trifecta Tuning Shop.
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As you know I have been working with Vince at Trifecta Performance and I got the beta tune in today and installed with no problems.
He called earlier and needed to verify some information about the HHR on equipment codes for ABS brakes and traction control.
Got the tune about 30 min later and just made around 6 runs hitting it hard and 2 normal driving
on my thermometer outside it read 101 and 102 when i got back so these are the conditions.
1. idle limiter and top end limiter are both gone
2. shifts are crisp and firm all the time now
3. full throttle take off, nice squeal on the tires, shifted at approx 6500 rpm’s and around 43 mph
4. when it shifted to 2nd it launched forward and really picked up some nice speed.
5. my 0-60 speed in feet was approx 45 feet shorter
6. i was already at 70 in 2nd in a 40 mph zone so i didn’t get to see when it shifted to 3rd.
7. driving normal got me 20 mph shift at 2nd and overdrive at 38 mph. i was only doing 2100 in 3rd at 35 so that was a nice change and should get some nice gas savings.
8. Traction control has not kicked on once and I have had harder hits in 2nd gear so it also fixed that and nothing on the starts as well
104 on temp gauge in back and 112 on DIC
Shagy was driving like it was 50 degrees
driving results from normal to freeway to on freeway and full out
let me say there are now no slumps or sluggishness in the shifting even on normal pick up and slow driving. It is smoother throughout the power band and more even and even at slow speeds it is running better
the tranny is pulling Shagy easier. i did normal driving to the freeway an then hammered it onto the freeway, went 2 miles and turned around and came back and got to 110 and came home playing in I and D to see how the feel was.
Go around a turn even in D and stomp on it and it jerks you around the corner and just doesnt quit pulling.
I LOVE IT
Rolling full throttles from slow speeds are just amazing and just a great thrill.
In D gear and normal drive and barely any foot in it- Grandma style driving
1st- 20
2nd- 30
3rd- 35
D- 38 (rpm’s never got over 1900 to 2000 before shifting into OD)
In D w a lil more foot in it
1st- 22
2nd- 33
3rd- 40
OD- when you let off the pedal or around 45 to 50
In D w it floored- shifts at 6500 rpm
1st- 42
2nd- 68 to 70
3rd- i had to let off the pedal to get it to want to change to OD- did so at 85
In Low or I it was very close. Low was a lil faster but not much and this way if you leave it in I gear you don’t have to worry about shifting to 3rdd which it unless you move it to I.
1st- 43
I- 73
3rd- goes to top end and i finally moved it to D to get it to change to OD at 103 mph
i went around a corner rolling and it just launches and just doesn’t quit pulling.
Words can not describe just how strong these lil Ecotech’s are and what they can do w just something simple as a tune.
if you want a lil sports car then a tune is one of the items that you just can not pass up.
with the positive shifting in the lower end even at 104 degrees your car will be getting more HP and better gas mileage
i cleared the DIC on MPG before i left and drove normal going to the freeway for 2.5 miles and then hard on the freeway and on the way back and i still averaged 18.9 on the DIC when i got back. i drove normal for a bit and i was getting 32 to 34 mpg.
i will let you know what i get this week driving normal and fast on different days
Even Carol noticed something coming back from eating that the power band is smoother and more even all thru normal driving range.
it actually makes turns smoother and more efficient now and very predictable.
initial reaction- I LOVE IT
Shagy even hauls faster than before
88ls1blazer 08-18-2008, 04:23 PM has anyone verified these milage increases? the DIC can be tampered with by modifying the injector tables for its display, therefor causing high or low numbers at will. I would definately verify miles driven vs. gallons to full and calculate it myself. even gaining 1-2mpg is difficult, let alone 5...
bigdog9586 08-18-2008, 06:05 PM I have an 08 with the 2.4 and did the same as you except for 66 miles each leg including about 2.5 of stop and go to get home from freeway and to US Speedo in Flint. There and back for a total of over 130 miles at 60mph no air I got 36.5mpg so I'm not sure what yours comes up with is that great. Yes I drove 8 mph slower but I also have the bigger engine and about 30 more horses which should equal it out.
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I am the first HHR customer to receive a 2.2L Ecotec tune from Trifecta Performance. You could say I was the Beta Tester I guess.
I'm up somewhere between 4-5mpg highway.
Today I did two 50 mile mileage tests. Average of about 68 mph for the 50 mile stretch, setting DIC to zero as soon as I was up to full speed on the interstate.
Trip 1 I-65 from north side of Nashville to Columbia TN: 36.0 MPG
Trip 2 (reverse of the above) 37.3 MPG.
This distance is pretty hilly, which kills the mileage. I have no doubt this car would hit 40mpg on a stretch of smooth flat highway like southern Indiana or just about anywhere else in the Midwest.
Car is an 07 2.2L automatic 1LT, only "mods" being Mobil 1 and the tuning from Trifecta Performance. Just google them to find their website.
Clevelandhhrss 08-18-2008, 10:18 PM I have an 08 with the 2.4 and did the same as you except for 66 miles each leg including about 2.5 of stop and go to get home from freeway and to US Speedo in Flint. There and back for a total of over 130 miles at 60mph no air I got 36.5mpg so I'm not sure what yours comes up with is that great. Yes I drove 8 mph slower but I also have the bigger engine and about 30 more horses which should equal it out.
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I have a tune and it's not for sale.
It's ME driving YOUR hhr...lol
I'll get no less then 37mpg on the highway with my 2.0 turbo 5 speed, since your 2.2 is supposed to get 3 more mpg on the highway than my ss, i'll shoot for 39 in your 2.2..lol
Added benifits..your brakes will last a really long time, and you will only need to change your oil every 10000+ miles
Later
courthousedeb 08-18-2008, 11:03 PM has anyone verified these milage increases? the DIC can be tampered with by modifying the injector tables for its display, therefor causing high or low numbers at will. I would definately verify miles driven vs. gallons to full and calculate it myself. even gaining 1-2mpg is difficult, let alone 5...
This guy is self employed and keeps track of his mpg by hand as well, for tax purposes. No tampering going on here. He's been working with Vince to help get these tunes available for others, so there's no hokey stuff going on.
I figure mine by hand from time to time and have found that they are almost identical...maybe off by a tenth, but not much more.
chrisHHR 08-26-2008, 06:15 PM Leaner than 14.7:1 may also damage your valves, but... I don't believe it is possible to tune part-throttle operation A/F ratio-- the ECM works with the oxygen sensor to achieve as close to optimal (14.7:1)A/F ratio in real time as it can once you're in closed loop (coolant temp beyond a certain temp threshold). If you've ever watched a real time scanner you can see the oxygen sensor at work. The O2 sensor in front of the catalyst is for A/F ratio the O2 behind the catlyst is for emissions monitoring. A/F ratio tuning is usually only for WOT (Wide Open Throttle) operation. Playing with spark advance parameters in the ECM is a different story, but this can also lead to a need to burn premium fuel.
The Buick GNs from the 80's had a "lean burn" mode. I agree that going too lean can burn valves (and other issues), but we're not talking about going "too lean".
In fact, I'm betting the MPG gains come from optimizing cruise timing, rather than AFR, since as you say it would be hard to tune closed loop (though not impossible).
From my LT1 owning days, I did my own tuning with LT1 edit. By altering the MAF table or the injector constant you can indeed really lean out or richen up the car, even in closed loop, all the way through the RPM range or even at specific places (using the MAF tables modified at specific grams/sec ranges).
I know theoretically the PCM compensates, but there appears to be a limit beyond which it can't recover.
chrisHHR 08-26-2008, 06:17 PM has anyone verified these milage increases? the DIC can be tampered with by modifying the injector tables for its display, therefor causing high or low numbers at will. I would definately verify miles driven vs. gallons to full and calculate it myself. even gaining 1-2mpg is difficult, let alone 5...
Before and after the tune my DIC REMAINS .8-1.0 gallons high in the calculation as compared to a hand calculation, which I do every time I fill up. I believe I factored that into my original post, however.
Not exactly sure where all the skepticism is coming from. I'm just sharing what my results are, I have no agenda here.
In the interest of full disclosure, however, I will say Vince is a sponsor at my forms (see signature). I paid the equivalent of full price for my tune, however. His sponsorship payment was due a couple weeks ago and we agreed to deduct the full price of the tune from what he owed me.
The Curly 1 08-30-2008, 07:33 PM I am interested in this if it can be verified. Someone do an independent test with before and after on similar trips.
Then if it can ve verified I would like to know what all they do and how much it costs.
I bought my HHR for the sole purpose of saving money on gas. My one ton four dour dually was killing me on gas. If I could save 5 MPG on an already decent mileage I would be thrilled. Bruce
The Curly 1 09-18-2008, 08:47 AM Chris, How is your mileage now? I would like to know more about how well it worked and if you have made any other mods. I plan on doing the Trifecta tune to in addition to a few other mods. Thanks, Curly
chrisHHR 09-19-2008, 08:23 AM Well just on my normal commute I'm up 2MPG on average (sometimes less, sometimes more depending on how bad traffic is, how hard I try to save gas, etc).
camaro98z28 09-19-2008, 08:57 AM Don't lean your car out. EVER people with SS versions beware as more importantly
chrisHHR 09-29-2008, 08:42 AM Don't lean your car out. EVER people with SS versions beware as more importantly
You could at least form a proper sentence. I agree that leaning out is not a good idea for forced induction engines.
But keep in mind here we're talking about low load, low RPM, part throttle MPG gains. I agree it would be a DISASTER to lean out WOT on a Turbo motor (or any motor for that matter), but remember as I mentioned before even the legendary Buick GN had a "lean burn" highway mode.
Clevelandhhrss 09-29-2008, 08:33 PM Seems that this isn't going anywhere.......
TomsHHR 09-29-2008, 09:17 PM My tune took me up close to 2 mpg also for my commutes. I have not been out for a trip as of yet and I have a Trifecta Tune and am also a Installer/Dealer for Vince.
Stick might pop in and give his impression of his Trifecta Tune installed over the weekend.
The Curly 1 09-30-2008, 07:07 AM Mileage and performance can be increased with out leaning it out. There are many other variables other than fuel ratio such as timing advance that help.
It is never good to lean out a motor.
VinceTrifecta 11-25-2008, 10:40 PM "Lean cruise" is a factory equipped feature, which allows the ECM/PCM to command fuel ratios up to 18:1 under certain conditions (usually highway driving). The code exists in 01+ LS1 and "Gen III" truck PCMs but is not enabled except on exported vehicles. Australian Holden export vehicles have this feature enabled, for example. It is apparently not enabled in the US because the leaner mixtures cause NOx emissions in excess of EPA guidelines (at least on these V8s).
But, we could at least assume that GM knows what they are doing (maybe? ;-)) since they are backing those vehicles with a warranty also.
A 2005 Cobalt LS customer of ours has also shown me datalogs that seems to imply some of the US 2.2s might have lean cruise enabled as well. It's the first vehicle I've seen in the US since the 80s that has operational lean cruise.
Our HHR tunes don't change any of this (we can't really change fuel ratios during closed loop anyway, the ECM is managing it for us). We've increased timing advance in certain areas of the timing table based on our experience on the dyno, we've ditched the PE mode delay, and we've enrichened the PE ratio (factory ratios are actually too lean for best power). Automatic transmission cars also get optimized shift points.
I'm always skeptical when people tell me the performance tune increases fuel economy, but we hear it time and time again. My LS3 Corvette has seen a 2-3MPG improvement on the highway with a tune.
Now, we're working on a targeted economy tune that definitely makes some improvements and we've been hired in the past to economy-tune fleets.
We've been experimenting with some "aggressive techniques" on our 2005 Silverado 4x4, which is a really good candidate for economy improvements.
The Curly 1 11-26-2008, 07:19 AM I am interested in an "Economy Tune" Sure I want a little better performance but the main reason I bought this car and I am doing the mods to it is to increase mileage.
My car is not a Hot Rod and will never be. I believe (some diasagree with me) that opening up the restrictive factory intake and exhaust and giving it the correct tune will help mileage. An added benifit is it sounds better and has much better performance. A car simply can not get full performance if it can not breathe. The factory timing curves are set way on the safe side to allow for bad gas, different altitudes, different driving styles.
Until I get the correct tune the intake manifold, intake filter and exhaust may not get all if any benifits because it may make it run leaner than it should. They all have to work together.
I am interested in anything in the tune that can help mileage. I really do not care to eliminate the rev limiters or change the shift points etc. Curly
solman98 11-26-2008, 09:48 AM Been reading through this and have a couple of comments/thoughts.
I've run custom tunes in the past with a 96 Vortec 5.7. The tune was installed after the intake, exhaust (including headers), upgraded ignition and electric fans were installed. Tune was done last to make sure all things were tied together for the best performance and mileage. With a heavy full size truck, a 2mpg increase shows more benefit than on an already fuel efficent vehicle. 14-16 is more benefitial than 30-32+, I think every can agree with that.
Now, with the HHR, we can just look at the listed highway mileage, 30mpg. Most seem to claim that get at least close to that, if not over. Few say they can't.
Lets look at gas at $4 a gallon (granted, much cheaper now, so benefits will be less). But at $4 a gallon, with 30 mpg, you are spending about 13.3 cents per mile. If this tune is $250, how long will you have to drive to begin to actually save on fuel? Is it really worth the money for an additional 10hp (from the chart shown)?
Now don't get me wrong, I like custom tunes, in the right application, they can make wonders. But on a stock HHR (even with bolt on's)..... I can't see the benefit.
The Curly 1 11-26-2008, 10:42 AM True it would take a long time to recover the cost of all of my mods but I am doing it for me and I do not mind spending money to make my perform and look like I want it to.
I like this car and plan on keeping it for a long time. Might as well make it exactly like I want it.
VinceTrifecta 11-26-2008, 11:24 AM Yep, economy tunes have been selling best to owners of full size trucks. We've consistently improved the economy 25%+ on these vehicles, mostly, believe it or not, by changing the shift strategy (upshift to higher gears sooner, lock TCC sooner, etc).
TomsHHR 11-26-2008, 01:40 PM Solman98 brings out a good point.
To explain this we can use 2 different people, First is a daily driver and the second would be someone in sales. for comparison we will use the $4.00 per gallon mentioned.
For the first driver that drives an annual of 12,000 miles and getting on the bad side of the usage 22 mpg. His cost of gas for one year will be $2,181.82.
If a tune were to gain 2 mpg average his cost of gas for the year will be $2,000.00 saving $181.82.
If the gain is 4 mpg he would spend $1,846.15 with a savings of $335.66.
If the gain is 6 mpg average he would spend $1,714.29 with a savings of $233.77.
For the Sales driver that drives an annual of 20,000 miles and getting on the bad side of the usage 22 mpg. His cost of gas for one year will be $3,635.36.
If a tune were to gain 2 mpg average his cost of gas for the year will be $3,333.33 saving $303.33.
If the gain is 4 mpg he would spend $3,076.92 with a savings of $559.44.
If the gain is 6 mpg average he would spend $2,856.14 with a savings of $389.61.
Now to compare this using an average of $2.00 mpg
For the first driver that drives an annual of 12,000 miles and getting 26 mpg. His cost of gas for one year will be $923.08.
If a tune were to gain 2 mpg average his cost of gas for the year will be $857.14 saving $65.93.
If the gain is 4 mpg he would spend $800.00 with a savings of $123.08.
If the gain is 6 mpg average he would spend $750.00 with a savings of $205.13.
For the Sales driver that drives an annual of 20,000 miles and getting 26 mpg. His cost of gas for one year will be $1,548.46.
If a tune were to gain 2 mpg average his cost of gas for the year will be $1,428.57 saving $109.89.
If the gain is 4 mpg average he would spend $1,333.33 with a savings of $205.13.
If the gain is 6 mpg average he would spend $1,250.00 with a savings of $288.46.
So yes the benefit of getting your HHR tuned for mileage may take a while to recoup. Now compare the cost of a $250.00 Trifecta Tune to a Tune where you spend $400.00 or more, here is where the cost benefit is best seen.
solman98 11-26-2008, 02:23 PM Yep, economy tunes have been selling best to owners of full size trucks. We've consistently improved the economy 25%+ on these vehicles, mostly, believe it or not, by changing the shift strategy (upshift to higher gears sooner, lock TCC sooner, etc).
The tune I had on the truck did not change the shift points at all. I did not want that option changed from the stock. The company that did mine dug through the tables and other adjustments were made. I was definately happy with the results. But I did see a 2mpg increase and about a 30hp gain at the wheels. When all was said and done, I was running about the same HP at the wheels and the factory listed at the crank.
Rcflyboy 11-26-2008, 05:11 PM What if you have a 5 speed? Is a tune worth while as you can't do anything with the shift points. What now gets tuned?
TomsHHR 11-26-2008, 06:42 PM When you get a tune and have the Auto, there is a ECM tune and a PCM tune, With the Std transmission there is only the ECM tune. So someone with the auto trans gets a bonus.
I have a Tune in The Deer Slayer and will be putting my stock PCM trans tune back in for the winter so I stop spinning the tires on the ice. :steering:
I have also noticed the pull difference with the engine now that the temps are between 5 and 35 here now.
GTOMIKE 11-27-2008, 09:41 AM What if you have a 5 speed? Is a tune worth while as you can't do anything with the shift points. What now gets tuned?
You can always do it the way I did and get more power and mileage.Torque steer is the only side affect but I like that feeling:smile:
http://chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15656
TomsHHR 11-29-2008, 12:28 PM Yes you can get just the engine tune and leave your Transmission stock tune in.
masterchief1112 01-08-2009, 02:58 PM sounds like i need this
TomsHHR 01-08-2009, 07:17 PM It is available Here --> http://chevyhhrworld.com/ChevyHHRWorld_Tune_Center.html
masterchief1112 01-09-2009, 01:06 AM just might have to get one this summer
DMarotta 01-09-2009, 08:54 AM 31.1 MPG on 1,051 highway miles on cruise control set at 71 MPH in an HHR SS Automatic, 2 full tanks of gas, 93 octane pure highway driving from NC to NJ and back,
POST GM Performance Tune upgrade.
All I can say is im very impresses, and mostlikely attribute it to a slightly the slightly higher boost levels (-2 to -5 psi) the car cruises at now after the GM Tune. More air mixed in with the same amount of fuel gives a bigger explosion with more horsepower. Kinda like Blacksmith 101, use the bellows to put more air in the fire to create a hotter fire!
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