Airaid vs. CGS Test Part 1

Well, we got an Airaid intake in here yesterday so I put it on for a drivability test.

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/1_Airaid_Installed_Sm.jpg

I said I’d post results once we tested it. So far I’ve done a fit test, driveability test, launch test, 0-60 tests (on a G-Tech), and my own “punch it!” test.

I know the hardballers here want numbers and they are coming. Next week I’ll be heading over to West Coast Vipers (Dodge Viper modders), and using their dyno. All they know is we are shooting out two intakes vs. stock and we will wait to see what the official numbers are.

Before you jump in and call this an “advertisement” – just remember we are ALL on this forum to share information about our cars and mods and I feel it’s my duty to share what I have found out during actual testing of these two intakes. Anyone else is welcome to do the same – buy one of each, do a test, and report your findings. But I’m certain after we post the dyno figures next week that should satisfy most. Some don’t care, but I know I’d hate to spend a bunch of money on an intake and find out I could have gotten better performance from another brand.

QUICK NUMBERS

It’s already clear from driving and from the G-Tech which makes more power and makes the car faster. Whether you like/trust a G-Tech computer or not, the differences and amount of error are the same for both intakes. If it’s “off” they both are off equally. Here are the numbers for our 0-60 tests:

Airaid 0-60: 8.90sec.........................HP: 109

CGS... 0-60: 8.57sec.........................HP: 113

Those runs were as identical as can be (*the G-Tech doesn’t count your reaction time – it starts counting once the car launches so reaction times are always equal). I timed the Airaid first, then went home, swapped to the CGS and duplicate the run (same place, same start/finish, etc.). Engine temperature was 192-degrees for both tests and they were performed in the heat of the day within 30-minutes of each other.

These figures are just to give you a basic idea of the differences. The CGS Intake is nearly ½-second faster from 0-60, and shows 4 more horsepower on the same run. These runs are “relative to each other” – not any other figures. As I said, the dyno will tell the full tale next week.

FIT TEST

We had some fitment issues also – the hood wouldn’t close properly with the Airaid installed – it kept popping up the first few times:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Hood_not_Closed_Sm.jpg

Also, when the hood release was pulled, the hood jumped up with great force. It actually started to wear a pattern in the underhood insulator mat :

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Underhood_Mat.jpg

...and we only ran it for an hour. This concerned me so much I left the hood up all night so it wouldn’t get any worse before testing it in the morning.

(*Keep in mind that the engine moves back and forth quite a bit during starting, stopping, and torquing during acceleration – even more so if you own a 5-speed. All this moving will cause the airbox to wear the hood insulating mat and soon fibers from that mat will be getting sucked into the filter clogging it. I was also concerned with the airbox fitting so tightly to the hood that it might eventually leave marks on the exterior – much like old Firebirds and other vehicles in the ‘70’s.)

DESIGN

As far as being “cold air” – well, the Airaid is no more “Cold air” than the CGS is. The entire front of the airbox is open, and the radiator overflow bottle protrudes into it – bringing with it plenty of hot air! (there is also a nice "Ramp" at the front to help that hot air find it's way!) :lol:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Airbox_Front_Sm.jpg

Additionally the electric fan pulls hot air from the radiator and blows it across the engine, much of this air (hot air rises!), goes up and right into the front of the Airaid airbox and into your engine. Both intakes draw air from the same place (fender hole wher the stock airhose is), and both intakes provide hot air as well. The difference is, CGS doesn’t’ call theirs “cold air.” (*Note: we are working on a solution with another manufacturer to increase the insulation factor for the CGS and help it provide cooler air at all times – should be ready in about 1-2 weeks). Insulating the Airaid box won't help this at all - the front needs to be sealed off and that would stop access to the radiator overflow bottle.

DRIVING IMPRESSIONS

I enjoyed driving with the CGS more. The Airaid intake seemed to “make more noise” without feeling like it was doing much. Those of you who have been modding cars for a while know what I’m talking about. The CGS actually makes more noise when you “punch it” – but it really feels like it’s working! It definitely pulls stronger through the powerband. Again, unless you actually drive the same HHR with both intakes installed, you can’t begin to understand the difference. The dyno should give us good reference for this.

There was also a hesitation off idle with the Airaid that was not present with the CGS. Kind of a flat spot. Once you got past it everything smoothed out, but by then you were “into it” and there goes your gas mileage. I put the CGS back on for a drive into OC this afternoon and was reminded why I like this intake so well. Cruising at 75-80 your foot is barely resting on the throttle with the CGS and it maintains that speed effortlessly – like the engine is hardly working. On the return trip, I was stuck in some bad traffic (5-10mph for over 1 hour), and the engine just felt “torquey” off idle at those speeds. Much stronger feeling than the Airaid at the same speeds.

LAUNCH TEST

When power braking and lauching, the CGS felt much stronger and the G-Tech showed a small improvement (Airaid = .48 G’s / CGS = .50 G’s). Doesn’t seem like much numerically, but the difference is certainly noticeable in the vehicle. Someone mentioned that it was easy to spin the tires with the Airaid, but my experience was the opposite – it was easier to (if you really tried), spin the tires longer with the CGS than the Airaid. Spinning tires doesn’t get you anywhere fast, but it does express the off-idle torque your engine is putting out.

SUMMARY

All in all, the Airaid works ok, and if I had not already driven the CGS I might have been happy with it (except I don’t care for the looks either). For the average guy who wants an intake and some performance increase – and doesn’t’ care about the hood mat getting worn out, I’d say go for it. If however you’re like me; and like to put your foot in it and feel the power – well, the CGS does provide more of that.

That’s about all I can think of right now, but I will say again DYNO FIGURES ARE COMING NEXT WEEK! So bear that in mind before shredding this post.

*BTW – I’m going out to dinner with my wife so you folks have a nice time with this! :lol:

Thanks Mike!
I think that the Airraid would work alot better ifthe front was closed off and there was a hood scoop on it. I look forward to your dyno findings.:thumb:
O ya how was the dinner Mike? hope it was some good food.:lol:

I'm so glad to have found this place!!!

My wife and I just purchased out HHR 2LT Daytona Blue last week and I've been itching to do something to it. I'm already planning the IMCO install and have been following the threads about these two intakes so I can make a decision on which to get. You see, it's my wife's daily driver, so I promised I wouldn't make any changes to the outside of the car...yet. I'll be on the edge of my seat for the results of the dyno, and thanks for the work you put into this Mike!!!

i got my airaid installed tonight
Loud,,,, very loud and i agree with Mike
Quote- The Airaid intake seemed to “make more noise” without feeling like it was doing much. Quote
will see tomorrow after i really run it through the mill after i get my sway bar on

Any time the power increases, the gas mileage should get better also, any improvement noted to the gas mileage with the turbo muffler and/or the intake over the stock setup;) ?

I was getting around 18mpg on a round trip 30 mile commute with just the IMCO muffler. Airaid + IMCO is around 20-21 mpg on the same commute.

Any time the power increases, the gas mileage should get better also, any improvement noted to the gas mileage with the turbo muffler and/or the intake over the stock setup;) ?

True, - but there is one variable you must include; after people mod their cars they tend to "put their foot in it" more to examine the power differences. This always accounts for lower mileage. On the other hand, if you try to drive efficiently, you will see an increase of 1-2mpg with the IMCO and another 1-2mpg with the intake over stock.

My best "stock" run into LA was 32mpg with some major lightfooting. After installing the IMCO, this was raised to 34mpg. On the way home from Solvang (light load, efficient driving), I actually saw 36mpg for a short stretch! Keep in mind these are not "real world" figures you can get during daily combined driving, but they are evidence of the increased efficiency the engine now has.

You should see a slight increase in mpg with both mods - if you stay off the gas! :lol: But even if you don't - it sure makes driving the HHR a lot more fun! :smile:

Thanks Mike..Based on looks alone I know what Im going with...CGS

Good post Mike. I'm really looking forward to the dyno numbers, although I already made up my mind to get the CGS. This decision was primarilly based on appearance. I also plan to add the IMCO muffler into the mix as well. But, as things are currently, I need to get my last mod paid off before jumping into anything else...
:(

we're not suppose to punch down on the gas?!?! Oh well....LOL...no wonder I'm only gettingh 21mpg on the highway!

we're not suppose to punch down on the gas?!?! Oh well....LOL...no wonder I'm only gettingh 21mpg on the highway!

I've never reset mine but the most I've seen on mine is 23. something..I mostly drive around town though with stop lights every mile or so..

Wow... seems a bit some body is really worried about Air Aid..
But, its good to find out what exactly is actually happening..

Before one says its hotter , or getting more hot air...
You really need to record the temperature in those areas that you think are getting hotter, an opinion is okay.. but actual reading tells the difference.. (position a temperature probe)

Theres also a slotted bracket on the Air Aid.. if you make adjustments to it .. you will find a bit of relief...

I sure one will have better dynos than the other its all from design conception..

Tell us.. Does the outer body of the CGS is it hot to the touch after driving? How's the Air Aid intake feel to the touch ? (temperature probe)

I will have more detail Install information later..... after stage 2 parts arrive....

hvrod is right about that slotted bracket. I made some adjustments to it and the pan a little bit and I have absolutely no rubbing issues. I have an MTX, and nada a single rub. It is pretty loud, but that's to be expected since it's basicaly an open box and that it sits right on top of the engine. However, I replaced the current filter with the other Spectre filter I had in my HHR from when I had it connected to the black hose, and the sound is a little quieter now. I can thank CJ for pointing that out. In regards to hot and cold air. Hey. It's summertime folks. You're going to have hot air issues regardless of what you have under the hood.

To me it looks like the AirRaid is designed to draw cold air in from factory spot in the fender in addition to trapping the cold air that is being forced through the front grille. The CGS one looks like it is designed to soak up heat. It will be interesting to see the dyno results.

Man, I leave for 2 days to go to Monterey and Mike has 2 Air intakes systems, I don't have one as yet. Does that seem fair?
And Cap has changed his avitar and sig to an even scarier look. Does that seem fair?

I'm now worried about leaving fo a week next month.:scared:

here is mine w my airaid w a 3R racing filter i was using before with my other set up and i like it. alot quieter and seems to have more pep than the filter that came with it.
oh and it is blue

i pushed the rubber down on the sides more to make it so it is not sticking up as much
it is not as tight now

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/cjkrause/100_0809.jpg

CJ dose that sit in the middle of the engine compartment?
Just wondering if it would line up with the center of the hood or close enough to mount a hood scoop over it. I have the top part of a scoop from a old Trans Am. I just need to get the filter and filter box in the middle of the hood.

CJ dose that sit in the middle of the engine compartment?
Just wondering if it would line up with the center of the hood or close enough to mount a hood scoop over it. I have the top part of a scoop from a old Trans Am. I just need to get the filter and filter box in the middle of the hood.


IMO, they had a scoop in mind when they created this. It does fit right in the middle of your engine. It basically just replaces that big black cover where your current air filter is. So it is pretty much down the middle.

Thanks!
I just need to get me self one now.

here is mine w my airaid w a 3R racing filter i was using before with my other set up and i like it. alot quieter and seems to have more pep than the filter that came with it.
oh and it is blue

i pushed the rubber down on the sides more to make it so it is not sticking up as much
it is not as tight now

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/cjkrause/100_0809.jpg

Now that's looks cooooool!

Ng

I'll save my judgement until after I see some numbers. I think both designs have merrit. CH said that the CGS looks like it's designed to soak up heat (just quoting you CH, not bashing), I don't think any company would actually design an intake purposely to soak up heat. With that said. We use a miraid of intake designs on many sport compacts we build here at my shop. The same concern CH brought up is one of our concerns as well with the metal pipe intakes. We had some temp readings done between the various long and short tube metal pipe intakes as well as the plastic pipe and box style intakes. We had this done at some of our dyno meets which we do a few times a year. The air temps at idle and very low speeds (we similuated slow heavy traffic conditions on the dyno) indicated about 3 - 5 degrees (average) warmer in all of the metal pipe intakes as opposed to the plastic intakes. But at normal driving speeds and WOT almost all the intakes we tested were within 1 degree of each other (neither being superior), both plastic and metal. The shop that owns the dyno concluded that at the rate of speed the air travels through the intake pipe, regardless of it being plastic or metal, it doesn't have enough time to soak up any heat from the pipes. We even went as far as to do the hand touch thingy. Sure enough, after the idle test and the heavy traffic test the metal intake pipes were a bit warm to the touch, but after the normal driving and WOT test's we agreed that the metal pipe intakes were actually cooler to the touch than with the engine not running at all. So without any scientific data, (kinda like the butt dyno) this is what we found. The hard thing about these debates is the fact that when someone plunks down hard cash for something they beleive in, they're going to defend it till the end....even if it isn't as good as they want it to be. No one want's to admit they bought something not as good as the next. But no matter what the end result is, what you have is most likely much better than what came as OEM. Does the possibility of 1 - 2 HP difference really make it worth fighting over and trashing someone, I'll bet I don't see any of you at the drags where this could make the difference. Mod your car and enjoy it, it's only a matter of what makes us feel good about what we drive. Hey, any improvement is a plus. -Dan

I didn't take it as bashing. :smile: Besides your the one who has actually done comparisons. :bow: I have previously bought CAIs on theory and beliefs along with dyno charts but no hands on tests. ;) I don't think they would actually design it to soak up heat but it would come as a byproduct of the design and materials. I was thinking the other day, has anyone tried doing a ceramic coating on a metal CAI. :confused: Kind of like ceramic header or brake coatings. I know it would be expensive and not practical for the level of horsepower we can get out of the HHR, but it was just a thought. :smile:

We have another full heat shield product being designed for the CGS system right now. It will insulate the entire tube from engine heat - for those concerned about it. I'll post the details when I have pics.

I'll save my judgement until after I see some numbers. I think both designs have merrit. CH said that the CGS looks like it's designed to soak up heat (just quoting you CH, not bashing), I don't think any company would actually design an intake purposely to soak up heat. With that said. We use a miraid of intake designs on many sport compacts we build here at my shop. The same concern CH brought up is one of our concerns as well with the metal pipe intakes. We had some temp readings done between the various long and short tube metal pipe intakes as well as the plastic pipe and box style intakes. We had this done at some of our dyno meets which we do a few times a year. The air temps at idle and very low speeds (we similuated slow heavy traffic conditions on the dyno) indicated about 3 - 5 degrees (average) warmer in all of the metal pipe intakes as opposed to the plastic intakes. But at normal driving speeds and WOT almost all the intakes we tested were within 1 degree of each other (neither being superior), both plastic and metal. The shop that owns the dyno concluded that at the rate of speed the air travels through the intake pipe, regardless of it being plastic or metal, it doesn't have enough time to soak up any heat from the pipes. We even went as far as to do the hand touch thingy. Sure enough, after the idle test and the heavy traffic test the metal intake pipes were a bit warm to the touch, but after the normal driving and WOT test's we agreed that the metal pipe intakes were actually cooler to the touch than with the engine not running at all. So without any scientific data, (kinda like the butt dyno) this is what we found. The hard thing about these debates is the fact that when someone plunks down hard cash for something they beleive in, they're going to defend it till the end....even if it isn't as good as they want it to be. No one want's to admit they bought something not as good as the next. But no matter what the end result is, what you have is most likely much better than what came as OEM. Does the possibility of 1 - 2 HP difference really make it worth fighting over and trashing someone, I'll bet I don't see any of you at the drags where this could make the difference. Mod your car and enjoy it, it's only a matter of what makes us feel good about what we drive. Hey, any improvement is a plus. -Dan

Dan don't take this the wrong way, but after two sentences my eyes hurt so bad I couldn't read anymore...:confused:

Ng

dan makes a ton of sense. A few hp gained on a CAI upgrade will not do much for our hhr's. Just mod on and have fun. I went with the airaid because it was available to me at a price I can afford. I'm happy with the gains. Other than a super/turbo charger (if/when available), there really isnt any more engine mods left for us to mess with. Airaid or CGS, be happy with your purchase and enjoy the add-on pep for your hhr.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/cjkrause/100_0807.jpg
if you were to add a small box on the right after the oil fill spout,, it would be in the middle and a hole in the hood w a scoop on top would work, otherwise it is slightly left

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/cjkrause/100_0807.jpg
if you were to add a small box on the right after the oil fill spout,, it would be in the middle and a hole in the hood w a scoop on top would work, otherwise it is slightly left

Thanks CJ. :smile:
I know that I want a working hood scoop on it, but not to sure what look I want sticking out of the hood yet.:cool:

What about a scoop like on the Subaru? (Only kidding). But, maybe somebody could Photoshop a few ideas? I think the cowl induction is nice because when it is raining or snowing out, it will not force in the moisture. With the unique style of the HHR, it may be difficult to find the right design that both looks and works well.

I wonder how the fender intake gets it's air. Perhaps a scoop could be on the fender itself, with a similar contour to the hood. And on the passanger side, it could be made to help flow the air in the engine compartment.

I also like the cowl hood, but I want a scoop that faces backwards. They work realy well. You can realy feel the suction from the scoop or cowl hood. And they will keep most things out of the filter and engine. I miss the shaker hood scoop I had on my 81 Camaro. Loved watching it move.

here is mine w my airaid w a 3R racing filter i was using before with my other set up and i like it. alot quieter and seems to have more pep than the filter that came with it.
oh and it is blue

i pushed the rubber down on the sides more to make it so it is not sticking up as much
it is not as tight now

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/cjkrause/100_0809.jpg

CJ looks a bit offcenter.. or is it just the picture angle...?

A heat shield is being developed..
good good ... another design change...

What will that bring the final talley of price for the whole unit ?

Dan don't take this the wrong way, but after two sentences my eyes hurt so bad I couldn't read anymore...:confused:

Ng

Yeah, kinda gave me a headache too...:lol:

cj,

do you have a online reseller for your filter? I like how it looks.

cj,

do you have a online reseller for your filter? I like how it looks.
it was a 3R racing
bought it at a OReilys and they werent carrying it anymore
had a lifetime warranty label on it like K&N so who knows

Mike, let me stir the pot just a little bit. On 2-14-06 you posted your 0-60 time of 7.63 seconds and 1/4 mile time of 15.86. On you review of both new intakes the 0-60 times are 8.90 with the Airaid and 8.57 with the CGS. Why is it a second to nearly a second and a half slower now?:confused:

Mike, let me stir the pot just a little bit. On 2-14-06 you posted your 0-60 time of 7.63 seconds and 1/4 mile time of 15.86. On you review of both new intakes the 0-60 times are 8.90 with the Airaid and 8.57 with the CGS. Why is it a second to nearly a second and a half slower now?:confused:


Wow good catch...

Mike, let me stir the pot just a little bit. On 2-14-06 you posted your 0-60 time of 7.63 seconds and 1/4 mile time of 15.86. On you review of both new intakes the 0-60 times are 8.90 with the Airaid and 8.57 with the CGS. Why is it a second to nearly a second and a half slower now?:confused:

It's simple really - that "fast" time was with my stock 16" tires/wheels which are both lighter and narrower (less rolling resistance). The 0-60 times I just posted were with my new 17" wheels - which are both heavier and wider than a stock HHR's 17" wheels.

For our dyno testing this week, the stock wheel/tire combination will be put back on to get the most realistic figures possible. (*these are the tires/wheels the car was sold with.)

Hope it helps,

what will become of us ???........

One sided again....

Are we being testy?? :D

Rims aren't going to make a second and a half difference though.

Rims aren't going to make a second and a half difference though.

I would tend to agree... However (and I'm not taking sides), those original results were taken in February, when the climate was cooler. The wheels would make a difference in times, but I would think (since it's only a +1 conversion) ET would only differ by no more than half a second.

Either way people, either intake (and any others that will become available in the future), will be an upgrade over stock. The variations in performance for any of them should really only be important to folks who spend their time at dragstrips. Who've ripped out thier interiors, own a set of wrinkle-walls, (probably not an HHR owner).

For instance, I've got the AiRaid and the Gibson Catback exhaust. I should be putting another 10% more power to the ground than stock, right? Hell no, I've offset whatever power increases with 300lbs worth of audio. But, I'll be hard pressed to find another HHR around here with this intake and exhaust. And that's what it boils down to, am I wrong?

No! :beer: Everyone want's the best performance for their dollar though. :lol:

Using smaller diameter wheels/tires is an old trick to get a numerically higher drive ratio without changing the gears. But it also increases your RPM when cruising and ultimately decreases your MPG. I have the 17 inch factory wheels, and with out intake/exhaust mods clocked 0-60 in 8.40, 1/8 mile 10.77 @ 58.5 MPH. Using a formula, the projected 1/4 ET is 16.51 @ 73 MPH. This was in Feb, also. As soon as I can get the time, I will go to the strip and clock my car with the GTech to see how accurate it is. Then I can put my IMCO muffler on and see the improvement (followed by the CGS intake). While I am motivated by performance, I also confess to wanting to improve appearance, too. And I prever the clean look of the CGS.

Using smaller diameter wheels/tires is an old trick to get a numerically higher drive ratio without changing the gears.


Though I would have to assume Mike did a proper +1, therefore making that moot. The overall diameter of the tire is the same, therefore the final drive ratio is unchanged.


Then I can put my IMCO muffler on and see the improvement


I am very curious about the results of this test. Usually one doesn't see dramatic improvements over factory times just by swapping the can. But of course, one usually doesn't have such a funky can from the factory, like the HHR's. I have dyno figures for Shnog while in stock trim, but nothing after the intake and exhaust mods. Unfortunately, the dyno I was using is no longer, (Lingenfelter C6 killed it) so I can't make a good comparison. :red:

If we are talking looks IMO the AiRaid one looks bad ass and the CGS one looks a ricer fanboys wet dream.

Though I would have to assume Mike did a proper +1, therefore making that moot. The overall diameter of the tire is the same, therefore the final drive ratio is unchanged.

Wrong. Never assume. My new tires are 3/4" taller than my stock tires. I went larger than a +1 size as I wanted to "stuff" the wheelwells for more of a slammed look. That, combined with the increased weight from the new wider wheels, makes a substantial difference - (it has slowed the car down). I'll let you know just how much that difference is when I weigh the wheel/tire combinations during swapping for the dyno tests.

I wouldnt say ricer, since hot rodders have been using simple looking air filters on carbs since the 50's. Think of the tube as a sideways tunnel ram:D

As for the Airaid-it looks like a no nonsense performance setup, reminding me of the type of setup used by Prostock to get air direct from their hood scoop. Unfortunately, the HHR has no hood scoop. And, if the preliminary test results are any indication then the CGS out performs it.

I like being able to see the engine. And, the Airaid's large box has to block the engine heat from rising and dissapting, as well as hindering air circulation, which would increase the temperature.

If we are talking looks IMO the AiRaid one looks bad ass and the CGS one looks a ricer fanboys wet dream.

Well, if you want an Airaid - I've got one I'll sell you for $175 after the dyno testing! :lol: AND it's already assembled! (*That should be worth an extra $25 right there!). Funny, the size of the box they ship it in, they could have easily shipped it assembled instead of in pieces. But then...they would have had to charge you more! :p:

Wrong. Never assume. My new tires are 3/4" taller than my stock tires. I went larger than a +1 size as I wanted to "stuff" the wheelwells for more of a slammed look.

And more of an ABS not-working-so-well look. And the my-speedo-isn't-reporting-correctly look. Without a reflash to compensate for those issues, you're hindering performance for aesthetics. For such a performance-oriented person, I expected differently. 3/4" does make a significant difference.

If they're only 17's, what size tire are you wearing on those shoes? Must be a lot of sidewall if you're tryin' to "stuff those wheelwells". Though I can understand wanting a 17" and a larger sidewall for comfort, but to go beyond the sidwall size that a factory 17" has must look... interesting.

a) Don't have ABS - never buy it OR traction control. I'm old school and those two items hinder my driving style. I don't consider them "performance" options at all.

b) I'd have to say that most of the cars I've owned (from my '57 Chevy to an '85 Jeep CJ-7), never had accurate speedometers. Sometimes changing to the tires you prefer does that. I'll get a reflash eventually, but I 'have other things to consider before soing so. The G-Tech takes care of those top-speed innacuracies for me.

I'm running Hankook H105's in a 225/50ZR17 at 25.9" tall with a 9.1" section width and 7.4" tread width. They are treadwear rated at 400 with Traction: "A" and Temperature "A." Speed rated ZR's ("W" -to 168mph for 3+ hours in testing) - top notch. These are also an "XL" (extra load), rated tire which has a stiffer sidewall with higher load carrying capabilities that provides a smooth "point-n-shoot" ride - without skinny 30 series damage to my rims.

Having managed several performance tire, speed & off road shops in my lifetime, I'm not worried about anyone else's opinions about my tire choices...

You might want to read about them: Hankook H105 Series (http://www.hankooktireusa.com/pdf/uploads/Ventus%20V4%20es%20H105.pdf)

As far as performance. I like to drive fast. The increased height gives me more rollout on the highway, reducing the final drive ration and rpms. I'm only turning 3100rpm at 95mph - with plenty left. I like it like that. Around town in "I" (or any), gear it still runs great. To each his/her own...

:thumb:

Actually a very nice tire choice. Had to get TireRack to ship them to me in Japan. Hankook Ventuss RSS is what I ran for track tires on my Skyline R-32 GTS-T (Just a lowly RWD, no AWD GT-R in my budget at the time).

I'm looking forward to your weight comparison, and times, for the different wheel packages!

Hi Mike,

I just joined the group and was catching up on your intake posts. The Airaid intake that I just installed on my HHR seals to the hood the same as the Airaids on my Yukon (on for 95,000 miles) and Superduty (10,000 miles). The seal will have a contact mark but won't break it down. I hope that this pits you at ease.

From looking at other web sites K&N, Bully Dog, and AFE also use a seal to the hood gasket similar to Airaid's.

So far so good, I noticed a seat of the pants (SOP) increase the moment I bolted on. IMHO, SOP is a reflection to the increased torque, rather than HP.

I wasn't aware of the intake you are selling on your web site. After looking at the pictures I will be curious at what RPM level each intake make power. From past experience I have found that a larger mandrel bent tube such as your makes more power at a higher RPM than a tube with a decreasing diameter as it gets closer to the throttle body. Horsepower is a nice thing if it happens at an RPM range that you drive in. I am more interested in the torque numbers and where they peak at rather than the greatest increase.

Your web site is great and I am sure that I will be spending some dollars with you soon. Do you have a retail location?

Regards to all,

Charles

:usa:

Well, if you want an Airaid - I've got one I'll sell you for $175 after the dyno testing! :lol: AND it's already assembled! (*That should be worth an extra $25 right there!). Funny, the size of the box they ship it in, they could have easily shipped it assembled instead of in pieces. But then...they would have had to charge you more! :p:

Sold! I'll even pick it up myself :D Unless I can't wait then I'll just go ahead and order it, gettin kind of anxious here!

Ng

If we are talking looks IMO the AiRaid one looks bad ass and the CGS one looks a ricer fanboys wet dream.

Have to agree on this one. CGS looks exactly like my AEM Short Ram Intake I had on my old Honda Civic Si.

Ng

I dont consider it a 'ricer' look. Rather, the tube and filter is a 4 cylinder look. It is the same for the Saturn that my wife drives, as well as VW's. When I look under the hood, I want to see ENGINE, not plastic boxes.

Just for clarification the box is not plastic, its metal.

Look under the hood of most imports and you will find a shiney tube attached to a K&N filter going to nowhere even near cold air. That's the only reason why I draw that comparison.

I dont consider it a 'ricer' look. Rather, the tube and filter is a 4 cylinder look. It is the same for the Saturn that my wife drives, as well as VW's. When I look under the hood, I want to see ENGINE, not plastic boxes.

Check out all the Ricer websites and you'll see they look just like the CGS. My AEM SRI for my Civic Si looks identical to it...

Ng

I dont consider it a 'ricer' look. Rather, the tube and filter is a 4 cylinder look. It is the same for the Saturn that my wife drives, as well as VW's. When I look under the hood, I want to see ENGINE, not plastic boxes.



AMEN! I agree. I don't know why it became the "thing" to hide the engine but I don't like it.

Everyone has their liking. I bought the Airaid just simply because, I couldn't see paying an extra $100 for a silver metal tube. In addition, CGS didn't take the necessary time to create one for the 2.2L So one has to go with the company that makes the necessary parts and accessories for their own vehicle.

I dont consider it a 'ricer' look. Rather, the tube and filter is a 4 cylinder look. It is the same for the Saturn that my wife drives, as well as VW's. When I look under the hood, I want to see ENGINE, not plastic boxes.


I'm with you!:thumb:
I want to see engine. Below is a picture of my favorite engine that I have owned. It was hard to find the air filter among all that engine!:D

The car got around 25 MPG, was pretty silent in a ballsey sorta way and did around 150 MPH from the factory with its five speed. My 1989 Taurus SHO!:smile:
I miss it at times. :sad: We spent twelve years together.
It fit a lot of people and stuff, went virtually unnoticed by the police, had little resale value ( who wants a five speed Taurus?), and spawned fans at the track and collector clubs!
A Yamaha six cyl engine in a Ford:lol: :confused: :one:
I dare ya to call it a ricer!

http://www.pbase.com/harpozep/image/61011440.jpg

Yamaha is Japanese
:D

Yamaha is Japanese
:D
True, true, Where I'm living, they call all the racey cars from the Asian countries "ricers".;) Yamaha Motor Marine designed the engine if I'm remembering correctly.
I wonder if an SHO engine could ever fit in an HHR? Man, that would be cool! :cool:
I have friends that take Toranado engines/transaxels and put'em in Corvairs! Crazy stuff , but fun!:thumb:

i had a 64 Covair Monza Spyder in high school,,, my all time favorite car till i got the HHR.

i had a 64 Covair Monza Spyder in high school,,, my all time favorite car till i got the HHR.
You have great taste in cars! Corvairs are still one of my Favs too! I still have a '67 and a '64, both convertibles. My friend had a '64 Spyder hard top.
I have a simple 110 HP four speed. The turbo is an intersting beast, a lot of fun but a fair amount of maintainence. We used to wrap the exhausts to make them heat up quicker. A bonus effect was they rusted out quicker!:(

http://www.pbase.com/harpozep/image/49093624.jpg

Aspirating these old cars was often a hit or miss for us driveway mechanics. Kind of like what we are doing here in this thread ( to bring it back on topic a bit). I currently have dual Ford 150 Ranger mufflers on my 140 HP '67. This opened it up a lot, as the 140 has four carbs and breathes quite well, it just needs less back pressure .
The HHrs are sensitive to just the right amount of back pressure if I read things correctly in the forums.
I have not enjoyed an automobile as much as the Corvainr until the HHR came along. Sure my wonderful SHO was a great ride, but the platform was blase compared to that of the HHR and Corvair. Go Chevy!:one:

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled thread on the intakes systems. I want a quiteone. I hate noise these days and even wear ear plugs when tooling around in the convertibles. Nerve damage sux:cussing: ( firecracker incident when I was younger).
Any way, the dynos will show which of the two current air intakes will perform better. More competition may even come later. For me, I guess I'll put up with the stock set up and the silly way it hides the engine ,....for now.
It's an excuse to paste another shot of an engine ALMOST uncluttered ( silly spare tire!):

http://www.pbase.com/harpozep/image/49239121.jpg

Hmm, I really should start a thread on favorite engines or something. This is getting WAY off topic:red:

I'm with you!:thumb:
I want to see engine. Below is a picture of my favorite engine that I have owned. It was hard to find the air filter among all that engine!:D

The car got around 25 MPG, was pretty silent in a ballsey sorta way and did around 150 MPH from the factory with its five speed. My 1989 Taurus SHO!:smile:
A Yamaha six cyl engine in a Ford:lol: :confused: :one:
I dare ya to call it a ricer!

http://www.pbase.com/harpozep/image/61011440.jpg


Yamaha also developed the V-8 version used in the 1996 SHO, using the Duratec as a baseline. That engine went out of production in 1999. Power was similar too, at 235 hp and 230 ft/lb of torque. This version was retired in 1999 because of the relative lack of interest in a heavier car that was slower than the V6 SHO it replaced.

You'll be happy to know, however, that the V-8 engine has been retuned and reused in the Volvo XC-90 SUV. The engine is a 4.4 L aluminum DOHC V8 which produces 311 hp and 325 ft/lb.

Look under the hood of most imports and you will find a shiney tube attached to a K&N filter going to nowhere even near cold air. That's the only reason why I draw that comparison.

Time to re-think that theory CH. Instead if "ricer" intakes, you should just get used to caling them "FI" intakes - since most fuel injected engines use them.

Here's a quick sampling of some intakes - note; these are all American made V8 engine intakes:

http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle6548.jpg

Time to re-think that theory CH. Instead if "ricer" intakes, you should just get used to caling them "FI" intakes - since most fuel injected engines use them.

Here's a quick sampling of some intakes - note; these are all American made V8 engine intakes:

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/4195/artistarticle65487ec.jpg


2 little problems with that information...

No 5.7 in a Mustang... 4.6 now, 5.0 then. Camaro's has the LS1, which was a 5.7.. Maybe you meant the 2007 GT500? Oops, that's got a blown 5.4...

The 300C Hemi 5.7 model was first available in 2005. I've got a 2006. Back in '2003, there was a 300M, but that had a 3.5 V6.

Dont' rag on me now Will; - I just pulled 'em off a web store.

Some may be labeled wrong - but you MUST get the idea?

This was targeted towards CH's "ricey look" comment.

These intakes are for American V8 engines - get it?

Got it? good.

Dont' rag on me now Will; - I just pulled 'em off a web store.

Got it? good.


Touchy touchy, Mike... We understand you're a (huge) fan of the CGS, but let us stay somewhat objective, shall we?

CH's comment about the CGS intake, while being an opinion, was supporting the AiRaid intake's different look from the Ricer crowd. (Yes, I'm a card-carrying member). You're absolutely right in that the short-ram intake is among the most popular for contemporary cars, a designation which both brands fall into.

I'll point out to those who don't like the tube-type intakes the ultimate man-car, enough power to hit 200 MP/H in 21.3 seconds. The Hennessey Viper 1000. And it's got polished intake tubes, too (of course, these are going to the big honkin' intercooler):

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7061/pic18kl.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4056/pic38xt.jpg
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7073/pic25pf.jpg

Though, more rooted to the discussion at hand, Hennessey's Cold Air kit for the Ram SRT-10 has the polished intake tube. Being that John knows a thing or two about power, I'd have to say that the tube intakes are gonna' be around for a while. Though my own preference is the AiRaid intake over the CGS, the short-ram is not only for ricers, guys!

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/1493/pic44gz.jpg

That's what it all boils down to Will (and everyone!), - preference. If you go back and re-read my initial post, I did not start this thread to slam the Airaid intake. In fact, I bought one to test against the CGS with the intention of selling them both. Many online stores sell more than one intake, but after driving them both - it just wasn't worth it for me to carry the Airaid. The HHR runs "different" with it on - and I prefer the way it runs with the CGS instead. The CGS also doesn't require any assembly, and it installs in less than 10-minutes, which is a big bonus for new modders.

CGS has also made intakes privately for GM on several other Ecotec engines, and I knew they had experience with the flow dynamics. A comment was made that Airaid "developed" intakes for BOTH 2.2L and 2.4L engines. Well, dont' believe it until you see dyno charts - they just happened to "discover" that both engines use the same throttle body and "it fits." I searched around quite a bit for Airaid info and have already seen conflicting figures posted on different sites (8hp/8ftlbs and 5hp/5ftlbs), but no dyno charts to back anything up?

I've done my fair share of intake development for the HHR in the past few months; working with K&N, then AEM, then True Flow, then CGS. K&N was the first to start work on an HHR intake - and they have still not released a production model. I just received an email from AEM at the end of last week - they have dropped the HHR from their product list now. No intake coming from AEM - even after we took 2 HHR's in (both manual & auto), for them to measure, dyno, and fit test. They had my personal HHR for 2 weeks! (Does anyone wonder why these companies are not releasing intakes?) :D

Basically, buy whichever model you like, whichever you can afford, whichever throws your switch. It doesn't matter to me. I'm selling tons of CGS intakes and they're not even released yet. That's not the reason for my post. I posted this because on an enthusiast's forum such as this one, some folks are interested in hearing about performance comparisons.

It's the 4 or 5 who have to slam everything I post that tick me off. Especially when they have ulterior motives...(you know who you are). I don't have to do these reviews. I didn't have to buy a junk intake that I'm going to have to sell and put the stupid thing together, bolt it on my car and do some testing. I don't have to pay money out of my own pocket to have all three dyno'd either! But I'm doing it - for the sake of the enthusiasts who care about performance and want the best value for their dollar.

I spent 20 years managing magazines, and watching "other" mags do shootouts where the guy who won "just happened" to drop a big ad that month. Not one month - every month! My mags never worked that way and I don't work that way. SoCalHHR's will continue to provide the best products at the best value for the HHR owner. Because that's what I'm about.

End of rant.

A Yamaha six cyl engine in a Ford:lol: :confused: :one:
I dare ya to call it a ricer!

I don't because it was an American car with an American engine. :lol: If I remember correctly Yamaha just designed the engine and Ford built it. :confused:

The Vette is different because they are ducting cold air from elsewhere. I'm talking about just a tube with an oil filter stuck on the end in a hot point of the engine bay. I know they can be bought for American cars but I usually on see them on imports. There are several styles like the CGS for the Mustang but most people avoided them unless they were going for the ricer look with their Stang. Performance usually outweighs looks. Most people I know either went with something like a DenseCharger or a March Ram Air Kit. A real CAI as opposed to a hot oil tube. ;) More importantly why are people trying to disprove my opinion? :confused: I didn't state it as a fact if you go back and read my post. I was talking about my personal opinion on how they looked and that can't be changed. :lol:

You have great taste in cars! Corvairs are still one of my Favs too! I still have a '67 and a '64, both convertibles. My friend had a '64 Spyder hard top.
I have a simple 110 HP four speed. The turbo is an intersting beast, a lot of fun but a fair amount of maintainence. We used to wrap the exhausts to make them heat up quicker. A bonus effect was they rusted out quicker!:(



I too love Corvairs, although I don't have one now. Our last Corvair project was a 65 Convertable with a mid engine 1962 Olds aluminum 215 CID V8. That was an awsome car.

OK, you may now have your thread back :bow:

The Vette is different because they are ducting cold air from elsewhere. I'm talking about just a tube with an oil filter stuck on the end in a hot point of the engine bay. I know they can be bought for American cars but I usually on see them on imports. There are several styles like the CGS for the Mustang but most people avoided them unless they were going for the ricer look with their Stang. Performance usually outweighs looks. Most people I know either went with something like a DenseCharger or a March Ram Air Kit. A real CAI as opposed to a hot oil tube. ;) More importantly why are people trying to disprove my opinion? :confused: I didn't state it as a fact if you go back and read my post. I was talking about my personal opinion on how they looked and that can't be changed. :lol:

Thats right.. ducting cold air somewhere else....

I too love Corvairs, although I don't have one now. Our last Corvair project was a 65 Convertable with a mid engine 1962 Olds aluminum 215 CID V8. That was an awsome car.:



NOW yer talkin" :D That is my favorite engine from the sixties and seventies! I had one in my '62 Skylark. What a fun aluminum power plant! And a mid-engine plant in a 'Vair? Great combo.:one:
We really gotta start another thread here.................:roll:

OK, you may now have your thread back :bow:

NOW yer talkin" :D That is my favorite engine from the sixties and seventies! I had one in my '62 Skylark. What a fun aluminum power plant! And a mid-engine plant in a 'Vair? Great combo.:one:
We really gotta start another thread here.................:roll:

OK, you may now have your thread back :bow:

Dayam, your about the first person I know of that even heard of the 215. When we first got married we had a little white 62 Skylark with the 215. We loved it, cause it looked like a baby Buick, and with the 215 and 4 barrel I could kick some serious butt with it against many camaro's and mustangs. We used to blow their minds.

OK, thread hyjack complete.....;)

Hey, dan, ya ol' fart... ;) Rembember the 62-63 Olds Jetfire? It had the 215 with a turbo.

GM sold the tooling for the 215 to one of the European manufacturers, Rover, I think.

Hey, dan, ya ol' fart... ;) Rembember the 62-63 Olds Jetfire? It had the 215 with a turbo.

GM sold the tooling for the 215 to one of the European manufacturers, Rover, I think.

Yeah Joe I do remember them. The Olds 215 and Buick 215's had different heads also. GM did sell the tooling to the Europeans. They used the 215 in the Triumph TR-8 and I think their still using it in the Rovers. Doing away with the 215 in the US market is still one of GM's biggest mistakes IMO.

That's what it all boils down to Will (and everyone!), - preference. If you go back and re-read my initial post, I did not start this thread to slam the Airaid intake. In fact, I bought one to test against the CGS with the intention of selling them both. Many online stores sell more than one intake, but after driving them both - it just wasn't worth it for me to carry the Airaid. The HHR runs "different" with it on - and I prefer the way it runs with the CGS instead. The CGS also doesn't require any assembly, and it installs in less than 10-minutes, which is a big bonus for new modders.

CGS has also made intakes privately for GM on several other Ecotec engines, and I knew they had experience with the flow dynamics. A comment was made that Airaid "developed" intakes for BOTH 2.2L and 2.4L engines. Well, dont' believe it until you see dyno charts - they just happened to "discover" that both engines use the same throttle body and "it fits." I searched around quite a bit for Airaid info and have already seen conflicting figures posted on different sites (8hp/8ftlbs and 5hp/5ftlbs), but no dyno charts to back anything up?

I've done my fair share of intake development for the HHR in the past few months; working with K&N, then AEM, then True Flow, then CGS. K&N was the first to start work on an HHR intake - and they have still not released a production model. I just received an email from AEM at the end of last week - they have dropped the HHR from their product list now. No intake coming from AEM - even after we took 2 HHR's in (both manual & auto), for them to measure, dyno, and fit test. They had my personal HHR for 2 weeks! (Does anyone wonder why these companies are not releasing intakes?) :D

Basically, buy whichever model you like, whichever you can afford, whichever throws your switch. It doesn't matter to me. I'm selling tons of CGS intakes and they're not even released yet. That's not the reason for my post. I posted this because on an enthusiast's forum such as this one, some folks are interested in hearing about performance comparisons.

It's the 4 or 5 who have to slam everything I post that tick me off. Especially when they have ulterior motives...(you know who you are). I don't have to do these reviews. I didn't have to buy a junk intake that I'm going to have to sell and put the stupid thing together, bolt it on my car and do some testing. I don't have to pay money out of my own pocket to have all three dyno'd either! But I'm doing it - for the sake of the enthusiasts who care about performance and want the best value for their dollar.

I spent 20 years managing magazines, and watching "other" mags do shootouts where the guy who won "just happened" to drop a big ad that month. Not one month - every month! My mags never worked that way and I don't work that way. SoCalHHR's will continue to provide the best products at the best value for the HHR owner. Because that's what I'm about.

End of rant.
Hey Mike I here you ,but it's just better to state the facts . I know that people like you and myself make modding cars a lot better [We care if something works as stated ] . Most people don't realize how easy it is to modify a dyno chart to make some sales . I respect you for putting your money up to find out what the truth is . I thank you as this will be one less thing I have to test on the dyno .LOL. I would bet dollars to donuts the Airraid will have more heat soak then the CGS just from filter placement. I think you should do a test and let them idle for 2-3 minute's with the air on ,then put them on the dyno . FYI the air intake temp will pull boat loads of timing out so the cooler the air the better.


And another thing I wanted to know if there was any temp changes from your first run and the intake test's ?


Thanks
Matt
www.tunetimeperformance.com

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/hvrodpics/Airintake.jpg

Heres some intakes made by different manufacture for a different vehicle..
some shielding is metal , some is composite/plastic for the ones who can't tell them apart...
But you can see they're shielding the hot air from the filter..

As I mentioned earlier, CGS's intake WILL come with a heat shield that mounts at the filter, primarily to keep direct engine heat from it. With the heat shield installed the filter will be pulling its air from the stock fenderwell location.

SoCalHHR's will also be offering a new product soon, custom designed for the CGS system. Our product will offer additional insulation for the entire tube assembly for those who want to maximize the benefits of pulling cooler air.

More on our product as it reaches the end of the development stage...

here you go

You can use header insulation wrap tape (to wrap the metal/plastic/composite portion that attracts heat)

http://www.ozcustoms.com/header_wrap.htm

Or you can use insulation shielding

http://www.vtechware.com/Tuning/Intake/CAI_03.jpg

Or you can use the shielding that I saw that fits around a universal air intake.

http://www.speedmachineperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HP274400

That should about cover it.... :lol: