News just in:

DETROIT – A person with knowledge of General Motors' plans says Rick Wagoner will step down immediately as chairman and chief executive of the struggling Detroit automaker.

The person asked not to be identified because Wagoner's plans have not been formally announced.

The move comes on the eve of President Obama unveiling his plan to reinvigorate the U.S. auto industry. Obama and other administration officials have said they would demand deeper restructuring from General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC before they would get any more government loans.

Both companies are living on a total of $17.4 billion in federal aid.

Is this the End of GM as we know it, or a Media Stunt? If Wagoner does step down, can hardly wait to see what the next SOB does.

Heck, I'll take his job. with no experience I bet I wouldn't do any worse than the last 20 yrs at GM

The full article from the Associated Press: GM CEO Wagoner to step down at White House request (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090329/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_wagoner_7)

Sad to see the goverment make a move like this. It should be a companies place to make this call.

It is nothing but a BS PR move as Fitz Henderson is coming in.

The problem is the GM system Wagoner has been trying to change not one man. If the goverment wanted to do what would help they would remove some of the road blocks that prevent GM making some of the changes they need to make.

The bottom line is RIck made some mistkes but he is the best leader they have had in years. Anyone that comes in will be hard pressed to do any better till more internal changes in GM are made.

Read the new book Why GM Matters and learn how GM got to where they are and really what is going on to change GM now. This book tells you what the New York TImes and NBC or CNN will not tell you.

News just in:

DETROIT – A person with knowledge of General Motors' plans says Rick Wagoner will step down immediately as chairman and chief executive of the struggling Detroit automaker.

The person asked not to be identified because Wagoner's plans have not been formally announced.

The move comes on the eve of President Obama unveiling his plan to reinvigorate the U.S. auto industry. Obama and other administration officials have said they would demand deeper restructuring from General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC before they would get any more government loans.

Both companies are living on a total of $17.4 billion in federal aid.

Is this the End of GM as we know it, or a Media Stunt? If Wagoner does step down, can hardly wait to see what the next SOB does.

Obama was going to ask him to step down. PR stunt on the Goverments part.

Nobody would want his job this year ... he was only earning $1.00 for the year

Nobody would want his job this year ... he was only earning $1.00 for the year

He sure is not getting much on his stock options either.

I really don't think it's Wagoner's fault...

He did his job! He's supposed to make the company money. If big trucks and SUV's were making money, he was doing the right thing by having them make more! No one saw this economy blow coming!!

It's not really his fault. But that's just my opinion. In fact, I single handedly blame Roger Smith!! :lol:

DETROIT – General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner will step down immediately at the request of the White House, administration officials said Sunday. The news comes as President Barack Obama prepares to unveil additional restructuring efforts designed to save the domestic auto industry.

The officials asked not to be identified because details of the restructuring plan have not yet been made public. On Monday, Obama is to announce measures to restructure GM and Chrysler LLC in exchange for additional government loans. The companies have been living on $17.4 billion in government aid and have requested $21.6 billion more.

Two people familiar with the plan said Sunday that the Obama administration would give GM enough government aid to restructure over the next 60 days, while Chrysler will get up to $6 billion and 30 days to complete an alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to make details public.

Wagoner's departure indicates that more management changes may be part of the deal, but it is still unclear who will be in charge of GM. The automaker recently promoted Fritz Henderson, its former chief financial officer, to become president and chief operating officer. Many in the company thought he would eventually succeed Wagoner.

Detroit-based GM issued a statement Sunday saying that the company expects the administration to make an announcement about the automaker's restructuring soon but that "it would not be appropriate for us to speculate on the content of any announcement."

A person familiar with Chrysler's management said the company has been given no indication that the government will require any changes at the Auburn Hills, Mich., company, which has been led by former Home Depot CEO Robert Nardelli since August 2007. The person also spoke on condition of anonymity because Obama's plan has not been made public.

Wagoner, 56, has repeatedly said he believed it was better for him to lead GM through its crisis, but he has faced sharp criticism on Capitol Hill for what many lawmakers regard as years of missteps, mistakes and arrogance by the Detroit Three automakers.

Wagoner joined GM in 1977, serving in several capacities in the U.S., Brazil and Europe. He became president and chief executive in 2000 and has served as chairman and CEO since May 2003.

Wagoner, in an interview with The Associated Press in December, declined to speculate on suggestions from some members of Congress that GM's leadership team should step down as part of any rescue package.

"I'm doing what I do because it adds a lot of value to the company," Wagoner said in a Dec. 4 interview as GM sought federal aid from the Bush administration. "It's not clear to me that experience in this industry should be viewed as a negative, but I'm going to do what's right for the company and I'll do it in consultation with the (GM) board (of directors)."

Auto industry analysts credit Wagoner with doing more to restructure the giant automaker than any other executive. But given that he has been at GM's helm for so long, many of his critics say he moved too slowly to take on the United Auto Workers and shrink the company as its market share tumbled.

"Given the history, a change in management could hardly hurt and might do some good," Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said Sunday.

Among his biggest accomplishments as CEO, Wagoner presided over a landmark contract agreement with the UAW in 2007. In that four-year agreement, the automaker successfully transferred nearly $50 billion in health care liabilities to the union as it sought to reduce labor costs, especially huge liabilities to retirees.

In 2004, Wagoner sought to reduce GM's brands by shutting down the Oldsmobile line of cars — a costly project because it required huge payouts to dealers. He also sought to streamline the company by selling the company's defense unit, General Dynamics Corp., for $1.1 billion in 2003. He has also reduced the company's work force by tens of thousands and closed factories around the country.

But Wagoner's critics say GM relied for too long on sales of pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles for its profits and was unprepared for a drastic market shift when gasoline prices hit $4 per gallon last year.

During the Congressional debate over whether to give GM and Chrysler loans last year, many lawmakers criticized Wagoner, including Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., chairman of the Banking Committee.

Dodd accused automakers' top management of having a "head-in-the-sand" approach to problems and said Wagoner "has to move on" as part of a government-run restructuring that should be a condition of financial life support for the auto industry.

David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich., said Sunday that Wagoner's departure gives the government a rationale to provide additional aid to the automaker. He was not surprised by the move, but said he is disappointed because he considers Wagoner a capable leader.

"I think that as a condition for further government support, this helps give them a little cover with the public," Cole said. "Essentially he's taking one for the team."

Cole noted that other automakers have been shaking up management as well. Toyota Motor Corp.'s president, Katsuaki Watanabe, recently said he would be stepping down as the Japanese automaker weathers financial difficulty. Also, France's biggest carmaker, PSA Peugeot-Citroen, abruptly ousted CEO Christian Streiff on Sunday, saying "exceptional difficulties" confronting the auto industry require new management at the top.

In the financial sector, where the overwhelming majority of government bailout money has been directed, some corporate leaders found their days numbered. The CEOs of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were forced out after the government took over the companies in the fall. Robert Willumstad, the former CEO of American International Group Inc., left the company in September, just a day after the government pumped $85 billion into the insurer to keep it from going under.

The terms of Wagoner's departure are unclear. However, GM disclosed in its annual report last month that it cannot make severance payments to Wagoner or other senior executives under the terms of its governments loans. Wagoner is eligible to retire under GM's salaried employee and executive retirement plans, but the amount he would receive is unclear.

Nardelli's departure is less likely than Wagoner's because Nardelli is "relatively new" to the automaker, with less than two years at the helm, Cole said.

GM and Chrysler were required by the Bush administration to get major concessions from debtholders and the United Auto Workers, with a deadline of March 31 for signed contracts. But very little headway was being made with either party this weekend as they awaited Obama's announcement.

Members of Obama's auto task force have said bankruptcy could still be an option for GM and Chrysler if their management, workers, creditors and shareholders failed to make sacrifices. Both companies are trying to reduce their debt by two-thirds and convince the United Auto Workers union to accept shares of stock in exchange for half of the payments into a union-run trust fund for retiree health care costs. The deals also call for executive pay cuts and labor costs that are competitive with Japanese automakers with U.S. operations

More Great News:

WASHINGTON – The White House says neither GM nor Chrysler submitted acceptable plans to receive more bailout money, setting the stage for a crisis in Detroit and putting in motion what could be the final two months of two American auto giants.

President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever. In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.

Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.

In an interview with CBS' "Face the Nation" broadcast Sunday, Obama said the companies must do more to receive additional financial aid from the government.

"We think we can have a successful U.S. auto industry. But it's got to be one that's realistically designed to weather this storm and to emerge — at the other end — much more lean, mean and competitive than it currently is," Obama said.

Frustrated administration officials said Chrysler cannot function as an independent company under its current plan. They have given Chrysler a 30-day window to complete a proposed partnership with Italian automaker Fiat SpA, and will offer up to $6 billion to the companies if they can negotiate a deal before time runs out.

If a Chrysler-Fiat union cannot be completed, Washington plans to walk away, leave Chrysler destined for a complete sell-off. No other money is available.

For GM, the administration offered 60 days of operating money to restructure. A frantic top-to-bottom effort began Sunday after CEO Rick Wagoner resigned under pressure from the White House.

Fritz Henderson, GM's president and chief operating officer, became the new CEO, a Treasury Department source said. Board member Kent Kresa, the former chairman and CEO of defense contractor Northrop Grumman Corp., will be interim chairman of the GM board.

One official said a majority of the GM board was expected to step down.

Obama advisers saw public outrage come to an ugly head in recent weeks, as populist anger escalated over bonuses paid to American International Group executives. They realized Americans are frustrated with the economy and its business leaders; they also said they would not invest one dollar more than was necessary to keep the companies alive and would walk away if it looked impossible.

Officials said GM had not made good on promises made in exchange for $13.4 billion in government loans, although there are no plans to call in those loans.

Administration officials still believe GM's chances are good, given its global brand and its research potential. Officials say they are confident GM can put together a plan that will keep production lines moving in the coming years. They planned to send a team to Detroit to help with that restructuring.

Chrysler, meanwhile, has survived on $4 billion in federal aid during this economic downturn and the worst decline in auto sales in 27 years.

In progress reports filed with the government in February, GM asked for $16.6 billion more and Chrysler wanted $5 billion more. The White House balked and instead started a countdown clock.

Administration officials acknowledged the short turnaround time was harsh; one described it as a nanosecond in a business cycle.

Two people familiar with the plan said officials will demand further sacrifices from the automakers and bankruptcy would still be possible if the automakers failed to restructure. Those officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to make details public.

Administration officials said they hoped large-scale bankruptcy could be avoided, especially if it might be stretched over many years. Any efforts to use the bankruptcy courts would have to be targeted and aggressive and must not prolong a restructuring process, they said.

GM and Chrysler, which employ about 140,000 workers in the U.S., face a Tuesday deadline to submit completed restructuring plans, but neither company is expected to finish its work.

GM owes roughly $28 billion to bondholders. Chrysler owes about $7 billion in first- and second-term debt, mainly to banks. GM owes about $20 billion to its retiree health care trust, while Chrysler owes $10.6 billion.

An exasperated administration official noted that the companies had not done enough to reduce debt; in some cases, it actually increased during this restructuring and review process.

In February, GM said it intended to cut 47,000 jobs around the globe, or almost 20 percent of its work force, close hundreds of dealerships and focus on four core brands — Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick.

In an effort to bolster consumer confidence, Obama planned to announce government backing of warranties for GM and Chrysler vehicles. An administration official said there is no price tag yet associated with that promise.

Aides note that Obama inherited the auto mess from his predecessor, President George W. Bush.

Under the terms of a loan agreement reached during the last administration, GM and Chrysler are pushing the United Auto Workers to accept shares of stock in exchange for half of the payments into a union-run trust fund for retiree health care. They also want labor costs from the union to be competitive with Japanese automakers with U.S. operations.

Little progress has been made between the companies and the union.

Atleast i got my HHR. If they go under i really don't wanna see what will happen to the economy.

All I see is Obama messing with private industry more and more. Whatever happened to the fact that this is a country that believes in capitalism not socialism??

If he thinks they don't deserve the money then let them go bankrupt.

Being in an area hit hard by GM (lack thereof) I really hope they don't go under....

You honestly can't tell me that one man (Obama) is going to change things this drastically single handedly. Look at our history..... America has been a socialist country for quite some time..... They just don't want to admit it.

We don't need the government blatantly telling PRIVATE industry who is allowed to run a company and how they should be doing it. But that's what it seems Obama thinks he's entitled to do.

Aides note that Obama inherited the auto mess from his predecessor, President George W. Bush.

Whatever you do, don't own the problem. :roll:

Why not just nationalize the auto industry? You know he wants to. All those loyal union workers on the government payroll. Mmmmmmm.

He obviously believes it's government that allows a private company to succeed or fail. They couldn't possibly just step aside and let the markets and industry work themselves out. The winners and losers are determined by the Man, not by the people. And that makes me sad.

I love the fact that he is demanding Chrysler partner with Fiat or they don't get the money. First, who says Fiat wants them. Second, who is he to tell a Italian company what to do? Third, partnering with Benz worked out real well for Chrysler, right?

But government will solve it all.

Easy for Obama to place the blame on the previous Administration . . .

Oh wait . . . HE WAS PART OF THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION! Mr. Senator! :roll:

I love the fact that he is demanding Chrysler partner with Fiat or they don't get the money. First, who says Fiat wants them. Second, who is he to tell a Italian company what to do? Third, partnering with Benz worked out real well for Chrysler, right?

But government will solve it all.

I think that Chrysler and Fiat already have a deal, there just trying to reach a deal with the Union's. If that happens or not who know's.

We don't need the government blatantly telling PRIVATE industry who is allowed to run a company and how they should be doing it. But that's what it seems Obama thinks he's entitled to do.

Apparently we do because looks whats happened in the last year. I guess these companies need some sort of seeing, they haven't done a thing. Look at the Housing fallout, Fannie May,Freddie Mac etc giving crap loans.
Not to mention the banks giving out Bad loans that they knew people could not afford.

Seems to me with everything that has happened this year and past year's, alot of Companies need some sort of babysitter.

I usally am not an alarmist but I see the present adminstration getting into things that goverment just should not be doing.

GM taking goverment money looked like a good idea but now they are a goverment funded company and the goverment in charge and inflict their ideas on this company.

Right now GM would be best suited to file Chapter 11 screw the goverment out of their money and start over with the baisics.

As it looks now it is either GM screws the goverment or get screwed by the goverment.

I would not have problems with the Obama admin calling the shots if they had some creditable people helping them but who do they have? Look at the autro advisory group he put together and none have good solid experience in the auto industry.

Anyone with a real working knowledge know Rick had nothing to do with this. The flawed system at GM that rick was trying to change was the problem. Even someone like Rick would have problem changing this system that is so large he could not afford to do it all at once.

Their is only one system out side GM more messed up and it is the system in DC. I am not saying it is Dems or Repubs as they both have damaged the system over the years. Now they want to run GM....

We have entered a historic slippery slope in our goverment. I fear now they will push for us to join in to the Euro economic system once they drive down the value of the Dollar.

I think we should resort to becoming a complete Socialist state....

And acknowledge it!

Apparently we do because looks whats happened in the last year. I guess these companies need some sort of seeing, they haven't done a thing. Look at the Housing fallout, Fannie May,Freddie Mac etc giving crap loans.
Not to mention the banks giving out Bad loans that they knew people could not afford.

Seems to me with everything that has happened this year and past year's, alot of Companies need some sort of babysitter.


You need to do a little reading on WHY the banks gave bad loans. 2 words, Government Intervention

IMO, (remember, it IS just my opinion), I think deregulation hasn't helped a lot either...

Would you think that Obama and administration people were not happy when the bonds holders said "NO" to their sacrifices. I'll bet that had lots to do with what is going on in the background.

First thought, on the banks. Yes, the government setup the situation that led to so many bad loans. But it was the banks that made the decisions to make those bad loans. No one twisted anybody's arm. Not all banks are in trouble. Some in fact are doing quite well because they didn't get lured into the trap of a quick buck. I know, I work for one that's doing well.

As far as GM and Rick Wagoner, well, all I have to say is that it's several years over due. He was doing a good job? GM lost money every year he was in charge. He should have been kicked out a long time ago. And the argument that GM didn't know this was coming is a weak one. Back in '05, there were warnings that the price of gas was going to top $4 with a few years. They knew what was coming. GM has had every chance over the years to position themselves to compete with Toyota and Honda, by trimming brands, developing fuel efficient cars, etc (you think direct injection is new technology?). They rested on their laurels and thought they could never be taken down. I read an interesting interview a few years ago with the guy who headed up the Impala. When asked if he was concerned that the Camry was the #1 selling car and that the Impala lagged behind, he said it didn't matter and went on to talk about the overall volume of cars that GM was selling. That's the kind of "head in the sand" thinking that's been at the heart of the US auto industry for far too many years. When I was done reading I understood why Toyota was easily going to outsell GM. All it took was a high gas prices and lack of consumer spending to make the final push over the cliff. GM has been dying for years, its just that someone forgot to tell them that it was happening.

Do I like any of this? Certainly not. I'm a huge GM fan. But the reality is that its been poorly run company, and Wagoner is one of the people responsible. As they say, the fish stinks from the head down.

(you think direct injection is new technology?)

You mean the thing that was a rare option on the 1957 Bel-Air? :lol:

Only took 30 years to become standard...

First thought, on the banks. Yes, the government setup the situation that led to so many bad loans. But it was the banks that made the decisions to make those bad loans. No one twisted anybody's arm. Not all banks are in trouble. Some in fact are doing quite well because they didn't get lured into the trap of a quick buck. I know, I work for one that's doing well.

As far as GM and Rick Wagoner, well, all I have to say is that it's several years over due. He was doing a good job? GM lost money every year he was in charge. He should have been kicked out a long time ago. And the argument that GM didn't know this was coming is a weak one. Back in '05, there were warnings that the price of gas was going to top $4 with a few years. They knew what was coming. GM has had every chance over the years to position themselves to compete with Toyota and Honda, by trimming brands, developing fuel efficient cars, etc (you think direct injection is new technology?). They rested on their laurels and thought they could never be taken down. I read an interesting interview a few years ago with the guy who headed up the Impala. When asked if he was concerned that the Camry was the #1 selling car and that the Impala lagged behind, he said it didn't matter and went on to talk about the overall volume of cars that GM was selling. That's the kind of "head in the sand" thinking that's been at the heart of the US auto industry for far too many years. When I was done reading I understood why Toyota was easily going to outsell GM. All it took was a high gas prices and lack of consumer spending to make the final push over the cliff. GM has been dying for years, its just that someone forgot to tell them that it was happening.

Do I like any of this? Certainly not. I'm a huge GM fan. But the reality is that its been poorly run company, and Wagoner is one of the people responsible. As they say, the fish stinks from the head down.

Yopu had better get the facts on this. Rick did do a good job and if the economy had remained stable and the final agreements witht he UAW and trust fund were hammered out GM had very good chance of refroming as a global company less many of the burdens they have carried for years.

The problem Rick faced coming in was a shrinking market share, too much production capacitym UAW problems, Too much inter division waste. I could go on. Either way GM was being turned. Rick also had to do this with little money. Rick brought about more changes as CEO since Anyone since the 50's when the trouble started.

To Change GM they needed Capital and lot of Capital. That is why they moved up the new trucks. The trucks make more profit than anything else on the market. Then the case cruch came in Followed up with the Market. Buying out employees and closing plants is not free. Killing brands like Pontiac Saturn and Hummer come at great cost buying out dealers alone. Making GM smaller is no cheap feat. In some cases more expensive in the short term to just keeping parts of it open.

If you really want to know what happened and what is going on read more then a interveiw. Read the new Book named Why GM Matters. It tells the story from the begining to the Sloan era on to around 1960 when the market changed and GM did not for many many years. It names names of past CEO's set this mess up and left it to Rick to fix.

GM's problems is over 40 years old and would not be solved in one year by one man. Rick in his few years has some more than anyone in 40 years.

To think he created this problem is foolish and to not give him credit for what he did right is even more foolish. Yes I will agree he did make some mistakes like the Fiat deal but the positive far out weight the negitives.

If you want to access the blaime it needs to go to the Roger Smiths and the like who did have their heads in the sand.

By the way GM is the first in this country to really push Direct Injection in gas powered cars on a large scale. IT too takes money to add this to each engine and the plan is progressing as they can pay for it in the budget. Justy as it is with many other programs.

Kind of like fixing up your HHR with little money. You have to do what you can afford to when you get the money.

My take on it is that Obama wants an all new management to come in to break the union and renegotate with bondholders in one final attempt to prevent a bankruptcy. If it doesn't work, they will go belly-up and start over again. GM is here to stay, it will just be a matter of getting the union to go along without the bankruptcy or going through it and forcing the issue.

My take on it is that Obama wants an all new management to come in to break the union and renegotate with bondholders in one final attempt to prevent a bankruptcy. If it doesn't work, they will go belly-up and start over again. GM is here to stay, it will just be a matter of getting the union to go along without the bankruptcy or going through it and forcing the issue.


You are correct.

No real new managment is comining is with Fritz Henderson [hand picked by Wagneer. Obama just got Rick out to show they are serious to the Bond Holders and UAW.

In the end I expect GM will go chapter 11 and we will have Chevy and Cadillac. Still an outside chance of Buick and GMC remaining. I figure this will end Pontiac even as a niche brand.

The question is how many models with in the divisions die and how soon. The HHR could be effected here.

I just don't feel comfortable with the same people calling the shots here are the same people with the 80% control of AIG. They have dons such a good job there.

I would think the president would look to people that know the industry and have some automotive back ground to help work this out. If you look at the oversight group not many with Automotive experience.

GM will be around in some form but no where near what it once was.

I know nothing of this CEO, but i know I wont buy ANY GM built between 75 and 2001(ish) based on looks AND reliablity risks (basically how you and your neighbor could buy identical S-10's. built on the same day.in the same place
his could rock while yours quickly rotted)

but i have been taking a shine to GM's lately, and i see no real faults in their business plans.

I just see a market that shifted violently, and a giant company that served that market(well) for decades. but is struggling to change for customers that quickly abandoned it.

i see no reason to punish anyone for satisfying customers for decades (even if i wasnt one of them)
because yesterdays yuppie wanted giant cars that looked like SUV's...
but in an instant wants a honda fit. it takes time to adapt to that. especially on as grand a scale as GM will have to.

thats my convoluted noob opinion. my apologies if it seems assine!

I know nothing of this CEO, but i know I wont buy ANY GM built between 75 and 2001(ish) based on looks AND reliablity risks (basically how you and your neighbor could buy identical S-10's. built on the same day.in the same place
his could rock while yours quickly rotted)

but i have been taking a shine to GM's lately, and i see no real faults in their business plans.

I just see a market that shifted violently, and a giant company that served that market(well) for decades. but is struggling to change for customers that quickly abandoned it.

i see no reason to punish anyone for satisfying customers for decades (even if i wasnt one of them)
because yesterdays yuppie wanted giant cars that looked like SUV's...
but in an instant wants a honda fit. it takes time to adapt to that. especially on as grand a scale as GM will have to.

thats my convoluted noob opinion. my apologies if it seems assine!

No you have the tight Idea.

Rick is the one for example who was trying to taking a company with so many purchasing departments that they would pay 5 different prices for the smae Federal Mogual bearing to a company that paid on fair price. There was a lot of waste for too many years and those who ignored it put GM where they are at today. There were nearly 10 CEO who did nothing.

Ricks one big failure was to put cars like the Cruze off till next year but that was due to the fact it was a global platform. In other words a Chevy to be sold world wide and it takes a lot of money they did not have.

The the trucks they spent money on were to generate that money. With truck sales slowing they were getting hte money but later than expected.

Rick and the GM PR people just did a poor job of explaining what they were doing. It is hard for a company with so many issues to admit publicly they have these problems.

Also if GM had been in as bad of shape as Ford was they would have gotten the low interest loans a few years ago and not had to go to the goverment.

Ford bad luck was in truth good timing. GM on top of their many proablems never caught a break on timing.

Now the Market is dead and it is to the point now that even companies like Toyota are losing money at a fast rate. If it goes long enough all MFG will be in trouble to a point. Toyota, Mazda, Nissan and others have already gone to the goverment in Japan for loans too but you don' see much of that in the news.

Toyota bears watchingas they just put the grandson of the founder in charge. Many feel he is not the one for the job. Time will tell.

In the end I expect GM will go chapter 11 and we will have Chevy and Cadillac. Still an outside chance of Buick and GMC remaining. I figure this will end Pontiac even as a niche brand.


Oddly enough, if any brand were to get the axe, I think it would be smarter to give it to GMC mainly because ... well, let's face it, it's redundant!!!! Why the hell do you need a whole separate brand to sell trucks that are IDENTICAL to the Chevy offerings except they have nicer interiors?! Keep Pontiac, ditch GMC.

Oddly enough, if any brand were to get the axe, I think it would be smarter to give it to GMC mainly because ... well, let's face it, it's redundant!!!! Why the hell do you need a whole separate brand to sell trucks that are IDENTICAL to the Chevy offerings except they have nicer interiors?! Keep Pontiac, ditch GMC.

I've often wondered that too!!!! I mean, they are the EXACT SAME TRUCKS!! What's the point!?!?!?!?

Yopu had better get the facts on this. Rick did do a good job and if the economy had remained stable and the final agreements witht he UAW and trust fund were hammered out GM had very good chance of refroming as a global company less many of the burdens they have carried for years.

The problem Rick faced coming in was a shrinking market share, too much production capacitym UAW problems, Too much inter division waste. I could go on. Either way GM was being turned. Rick also had to do this with little money. Rick brought about more changes as CEO since Anyone since the 50's when the trouble started.

To Change GM they needed Capital and lot of Capital. That is why they moved up the new trucks. The trucks make more profit than anything else on the market. Then the case cruch came in Followed up with the Market. Buying out employees and closing plants is not free. Killing brands like Pontiac Saturn and Hummer come at great cost buying out dealers alone. Making GM smaller is no cheap feat. In some cases more expensive in the short term to just keeping parts of it open.

If you really want to know what happened and what is going on read more then a interveiw. Read the new Book named Why GM Matters. It tells the story from the begining to the Sloan era on to around 1960 when the market changed and GM did not for many many years. It names names of past CEO's set this mess up and left it to Rick to fix.

GM's problems is over 40 years old and would not be solved in one year by one man. Rick in his few years has some more than anyone in 40 years.

To think he created this problem is foolish and to not give him credit for what he did right is even more foolish. Yes I will agree he did make some mistakes like the Fiat deal but the positive far out weight the negitives.

If you want to access the blaime it needs to go to the Roger Smiths and the like who did have their heads in the sand.

By the way GM is the first in this country to really push Direct Injection in gas powered cars on a large scale. IT too takes money to add this to each engine and the plan is progressing as they can pay for it in the budget. Justy as it is with many other programs.

Kind of like fixing up your HHR with little money. You have to do what you can afford to when you get the money.

Why so defensive? I was only stating my opinion. I never said GM's problems were new. Everyone knows they've built up over many years. And yes, I know the facts. But I'm not going to argue with you. I will only say that for all the good Wagoner did, he didn't do some of it early, or aggressive enough. We see this differently and that's fine with me.

BTW, I agree with your assessment about what will be left after chapter 11. I'm starting to wonder if that's what Obama wants. I wonder if GM's proposal didn't thin it down to this point.

Why so defensive? I was only stating my opinion. I never said GM's problems were new. Everyone knows they've built up over many years. And yes, I know the facts. But I'm not going to argue with you. I will only say that for all the good Wagoner did, he didn't do some of it early, or aggressive enough. We see this differently and that's fine with me.

BTW, I agree with your assessment about what will be left after chapter 11. I'm starting to wonder if that's what Obama wants. I wonder if GM's proposal didn't thin it down to this point.

Sorry I am not trying to argue here. I just get frustrated that so many people just really do not understand the truth.

There are several thing that caused this problems some more than others. But too many in the press and goverment just give the whole story.

Sorry if I was alittle wound up I did not mean to offend. :thumb:

Obama was sending a message to the UAW and Bond holder to make a deal with GM.

He has to make the UAW but does not want to do it himself so he is making GM do the dirty work. Firing Rick was his offering to the UAW to give in return.

Sorry I am not trying to argue here. I just get frustrated that so many people just really do not understand the truth.

Firing Rick was his offering to the UAW to give in return.

No need to apologize. And I think you are right about why they fired Wagoner.

Regardless of why, the government shouldn't be making decisions for private industry.
Obama stepped over the line on this one!

Agreed!!!!

Regardless of why, the government shouldn't be making decisions for private industry.
Obama stepped over the line on this one!

Agree II

I am affraid he has stepped over the line a few too many times for me already.

I am waiting to see what is done at the G20 conf in Europe.

I fear they will give more control to the IMF and that is way wrong!

I am for charity to a point but not the share the wealth by force.

Whatever you do, don't own the problem. :roll:

Why not just nationalize the auto industry? You know he wants to. All those loyal union workers on the government payroll. Mmmmmmm.

He obviously believes it's government that allows a private company to succeed or fail. They couldn't possibly just step aside and let the markets and industry work themselves out. The winners and losers are determined by the Man, not by the people. And that makes me sad.

Well he did not inherit the 3000 point drop in the market since he was elected!! And he did not "fire" the Union Boss.......

How long can he keep blaming Bush? I guess as long as the Bama Kool _aid drinkers are drinking... He OWNS tomorrow. Bush screwed up and should have never gave away the farm.

Let GM go BK..like all private companies that cannot eek out a profit. Let the courts disallow all contracts and GM will have a giant do over. The American Public out side of Michigan both Liberal and Conservative have no empathy for the UAW. Which is why Obama will have to let GM file for BK.

When the shop floor sweeper is getting $30 bucks and hour plus plus plus that pretty much puts him in the top 30% of ALL worker salaries in the country and not too many people feel sorry for him.

Well he did not inherit the 3000 point drop in the market since he was elected!! And he did not "fire" the Union Boss.......

How long can he keep blaming Bush? I guess as long as the Bama Kool _aid drinkers are drinking... He OWNS tomorrow. Bush screwed up and should have never gave away the farm.

Let GM go BK..like all private companies that cannot eek out a profit. Let the courts disallow all contracts and GM will have a giant do over. The American Public out side of Michigan both Liberal and Conservative have no empathy for the UAW. Which is why Obama will have to let GM file for BK.

When the shop floor sweeper is getting $30 bucks and hour plus plus plus that pretty much puts him in the top 30% of ALL worker salaries in the country and not too many people feel sorry for him.

You are at it again eh. You just speak as if you speak for everyone in the world. The complete know-it-all. Since when do you get to represent all of america in what they think should or should not be done. Will you ever learn to just make normal comments on this forum and quit trying to make an impression on yourself. You sound just like the ill informed media that never get their facts straight. You know... sensationalism will not travel very far.:roll:

Comrade Obama is our Statist in Chief now and his direction is the direction of the nation. His Grand Vision includes a new day where the government takes over for the individual. The individual can not be counted on to do what is good for the STATE. Individual decisions do not have the overall good of all of mankind, so the STATE must direct what is good. Chevrolet will become the STATE'S car company. Mr. Waggoner, no matter how well intentioned his efforts, how good they likely could have been, could not be allowed to remain and work for the STATE. Mr. Waggoner will be allowed to take his $20 million severance and go silently. If he dare speak poorly of the STATE, Comrade Obama and the other Statists will make sure his $20 million gets confiscated.

Comrade Obama and the other Statists will ensure:
1 - GM becomes a state run entity. The state will direct the board as to who will be allowed to run the company.
2 - The STATE will become very active in union negotiations and of course the union will be a tool of the STATE.
3 - As a STATE run automaker, GM will no longer have to be responsible to the whims of those fickle customers who don't know what is good for them. No need to produce big gas guzzling trucks, SUV's, or performance vehicles. No need to produce anything that does not promote the ideas of the STATE.
4 - Since the STATE has determined that alternate fuels and electric vehicles are the only thing good for the individual, GM will be the largst producer of plug-in electrics and hybrids, and there will be growth in development of Hydrogen vehicles. Vehicles that use gas or diesel will be phased out and their price will be raised significantly to inhibit any silly individual who thinks they need a gasoline truck, high performance vehicle, or large SUV (unless of course they are willing to pay the addtional cost of Hybrid technology on top of it).
5 - After the popular vehicles are phased out, the STATE approved vehicles will rise significantly in price, but the STATE will greatly hike gasoline taxes so that the STATE approved vehicles as cost competitive in the long run.

The good news in GM will never be allowed to fail thanks to the STATE approved status, so those of us with GM vehicles will always have a company to get parts and service from.

Comrade Obama is our Statist in Chief now and his direction is the direction of the nation. His Grand Vision includes a new day where the government takes over for the individual. The individual can not be counted on to do what is good for the STATE. Individual decisions do not have the overall good of all of mankind, so the STATE must direct what is good. Chevrolet will become the STATE'S car company. Mr. Waggoner, no matter how well intentioned his efforts, how good they likely could have been, could not be allowed to remain and work for the STATE. Mr. Waggoner will be allowed to take his $20 million severance and go silently. If he dare speak poorly of the STATE, Comrade Obama and the other Statists will make sure his $20 million gets confiscated.

Comrade Obama and the other Statists will ensure:
1 - GM becomes a state run entity. The state will direct the board as to who will be allowed to run the company.
2 - The STATE will become very active in union negotiations and of course the union will be a tool of the STATE.
3 - As a STATE run automaker, GM will no longer have to be responsible to the whims of those fickle customers who don't know what is good for them. No need to produce big gas guzzling trucks, SUV's, or performance vehicles. No need to produce anything that does not promote the ideas of the STATE.
4 - Since the STATE has determined that alternate fuels and electric vehicles are the only thing good for the individual, GM will be the largst producer of plug-in electrics and hybrids, and there will be growth in development of Hydrogen vehicles. Vehicles that use gas or diesel will be phased out and their price will be raised significantly to inhibit any silly individual who thinks they need a gasoline truck, high performance vehicle, or large SUV (unless of course they are willing to pay the addtional cost of Hybrid technology on top of it).
5 - After the popular vehicles are phased out, the STATE approved vehicles will rise significantly in price, but the STATE will greatly hike gasoline taxes so that the STATE approved vehicles as cost competitive in the long run.

The good news in GM will never be allowed to fail thanks to the STATE approved status, so those of us with GM vehicles will always have a company to get parts and service from.

Well since the "STATE" cannot and has not proved to be successful in anything they control, I am afraid I will be purchasing my future cars from a privately owned company.

You are at it again eh. You just speak as if you speak for everyone in the world. The complete know-it-all. Since when do you get to represent all of america in what they think should or should not be done. Will you ever learn to just make normal comments on this forum and quit trying to make an impression on yourself. You sound just like the ill informed media that never get their facts straight. You know... sensationalism will not travel very far.:roll:
Since 50 million people agree with me.......
No not everyone........ the rest are drinking the Kool-Aid or live in California, Michigan or another very highly taxed liberal State where the educated and flexible are leaving the unskilled behind who are looking for a Union to join and ruin another company. I'm guessing the boys in the US Metric plants are wiping their brows with a giant "whew glad we did not accept UAW representation" ...ya think?
:roll::roll:

Since 50 million people agree with me.......
No not everyone........ the rest are drinking the Kool-Aid or live in California, Michigan or another very highly taxed liberal State where the educated and flexible are leaving the unskilled behind who are looking for a Union to join and ruin another company. I'm guessing the boys in the US Metric plants are wiping their brows with a giant "whew glad we did not accept UAW representation" ...ya think?
:roll::roll:

I doubt 50 million agree with what you think. Maybe some, but anyone with economic sense won't.:lol::lol::lol:

I doubt 50 million agree with what you think. Maybe some, but anyone with economic sense won't.:lol::lol::lol:

You mean the brand of economic sense GM and the UAW has offered over the past 20 years??? Yeah thats some economic sense we all should learn from...:lol::lol::lol:

Americans outside of the UAW bubble that is Michigan "get it" which is why you will see GM allowing a judge to tear up all contracts and get a "do over" while Obama does nothing to protect the UAW knowing full well neither Democrat,Independent or Republicans support the UAW in numbers that would empower him to act to protect the UAW. The UAW has been castrated...and finally exposed to their own membership as weak. They killed the Golden Goose.

geez...........everyone wants to blame union
but if one really looks there are alot more companies going down the tube and they are not union..... it takes more than a union to defunk

Here is the latest on GM. THis is unnamed speculation from Reuters.

According to an unnamed source speaking with Reuters, General Motors "is in 'intense' and 'earnest' preparations for a possible bankruptcy filing." The report states that GM could be split into two separate entities; one "new" unit consisting of the General's successful brands (read: Chevrolet and Cadillac) and an "old" unit made up of its less-profitable endeavors (Hummer, Saab, Pontiac and Saturn).

If the plan is enacted, the all-new GM would assume some of the debt from the bankruptcy (primarily, unsecured debt) and that GM's bondholders would lose a substantial amount of value if the Chapter 11 filings go through. Naturally, neither source wished to be named, so this is all conjecture at this point, but if GM does declare CH11 within the next month-and-half, expect the Feds to step in to avoid the cataclysmic effect on both suppliers and the economy as a whole.

Comrade Obama is our Statist in Chief now and his direction is the direction of the nation. His Grand Vision includes a new day where the government takes over for the individual. The individual can not be counted on to do what is good for the STATE. Individual decisions do not have the overall good of all of mankind, so the STATE must direct what is good. Chevrolet will become the STATE'S car company. Mr. Waggoner, no matter how well intentioned his efforts, how good they likely could have been, could not be allowed to remain and work for the STATE. Mr. Waggoner will be allowed to take his $20 million severance and go silently. If he dare speak poorly of the STATE, Comrade Obama and the other Statists will make sure his $20 million gets confiscated.

Comrade Obama and the other Statists will ensure:
1 - GM becomes a state run entity. The state will direct the board as to who will be allowed to run the company.
2 - The STATE will become very active in union negotiations and of course the union will be a tool of the STATE.
3 - As a STATE run automaker, GM will no longer have to be responsible to the whims of those fickle customers who don't know what is good for them. No need to produce big gas guzzling trucks, SUV's, or performance vehicles. No need to produce anything that does not promote the ideas of the STATE.
4 - Since the STATE has determined that alternate fuels and electric vehicles are the only thing good for the individual, GM will be the largst producer of plug-in electrics and hybrids, and there will be growth in development of Hydrogen vehicles. Vehicles that use gas or diesel will be phased out and their price will be raised significantly to inhibit any silly individual who thinks they need a gasoline truck, high performance vehicle, or large SUV (unless of course they are willing to pay the addtional cost of Hybrid technology on top of it).
5 - After the popular vehicles are phased out, the STATE approved vehicles will rise significantly in price, but the STATE will greatly hike gasoline taxes so that the STATE approved vehicles as cost competitive in the long run.

The good news in GM will never be allowed to fail thanks to the STATE approved status, so those of us with GM vehicles will always have a company to get parts and service from.


Well, GM couldn't run it themselves....

Well, GM couldn't run it themselves....

And the goverment is doing so well?:lol:

The people who call the bankers crooks but how many of them have not paid their taxes?

I think chp 11 is the only foreseeable outlook for Chrysler and GM. Since the 1970's, none of the American Companies have produced good economical cars, and the few that were good were not being sold hard enough. Say, Corvair, Fiero, HHR and others could be mentioned. These are great cars, top innovation, reliable and useful. I think selling only 100k of these cars per year is too low. They need to sell almost 10 times as much to make a profit. Not everyone needs a truck for daily use, and the Big Three thought different. They also spent quite a bit of money on R and D on auto technologies and sold then to other car makers since they at that time thought it was not in their interest. Those other car companies refined it and called it their own and ran with it.
The Management of the Big Three have let the American consumer in the dust, and left them looking east for their next car. The current Management should be fired and replaced my more practical looking people. No one needs an H2 they can tow the same boat with a GMC Sierra 2500 HD W/T for almost half the price. Move four people with a unloaded crew cab daily when they can use a HHR to do that. GM was totally was at fault and should be re-organized.
The UAW has been ineffective since the 1970's after the OSHA act, and narrowed the workforce to a dedicated few who would not change employers due to a thing called loyalty, not practicality. Also created a non-competitive workplace. The only people not at fault were the consumers, even though they were the cause. The industry moves with the consumer not the other way around, and it was that GM tried to do.

At the end of May, the govt. and GM will end up in a controlled Bancruptcy. Just pray that they know what they are doing. Anyone that did purchase a vehicle prior to this plan may not be eligible for full warranty.:wtf: Anyone have any news on this warranty plan?

At the end of May, the govt. and GM will end up in a controlled Bancruptcy. Just pray that they know what they are doing. Anyone that did purchase a vehicle prior to this plan may not be eligible for full warranty.:wtf: Anyone have any news on this warranty plan?

Bought my SS 03/27/2009..... :roll:

BY JEFF GREEN AND DORON LEVIN • BLOOMBERG • JUNE 7, 2009
Rick Wagoner arrived at the U.S. Treasury building in Washington for another appointment with government officials about the survival of General Motors Corp.

It was March 27, almost nine years after he become chief executive officer. He'd been summoned by Steven Rattner, the Wall Street deal-maker running President Barack Obama's auto task force.

He didn't know Rattner's team had decided it needed to break GM in order to fix it. Wagoner, unwilling to consider bankruptcy, was in the way.

Rattner asked Wagoner for a one-on-one chat in his office. He told Wagoner it was time to step down.

Wagoner returned to the meeting room and told Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson and Chief Financial Officer Ray Young that he was fired. They were shocked. Some board members were furious.

"I want out," said one GM director. "When they made the decision to fire Wagoner without talking to the board, that did it. We had a conversation with Rattner. I told him it's our responsibility to pick the CEO."

Wagoner declined to comment for this report. People who know him say he is still upset and spending time at his vacation home on Daufuskie Island, S.C.

Interesting Brad....