The intake comparison page is now up on our site for those interested.

You can find it HERE (http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/page/page/3473615.htm).

I think many will be surprised at the results...

I assume that is your HHR. What other mods do you have done to achieve those numbers?

In all fairness you left the hood up on the AiRaid while dynoing and the hose disconected. The AiRaid unit is meant to be sealed to the hood with the hose ducted to the fender while operating. So if it's not properly hooked up and functioning you're not going to get good numbers. You guys are always telling me dyno numbers are biased, now I believe. :lol:

Yes I do see C.H.'s his point. It may not have made any difference, but what's the point of putting the hose out the front if the hood is open? The plenum chamber is completely open so it's not sucking air the way it realy would as designed.

http://webpages.charter.net/nashme/threadbombs/shrug.gif

The intake comparison page is now up on our site for those interested.

You can find it HERE (http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/page/page/3473615.htm).

I think many will be surprised at the results...

Hey Mike, Did the stock air box test use a stock filter in it???

I guess we will have to wait for an explanation on what you mentioned Capt. I am going get something, but I will wait to hear more on this matter. Yet, it is good to have a couple of options at least.

In all fairness you left the hood up on the AiRaid while dynoing and the hose disconected. The AiRaid unit is meant to be sealed to the hood with the hose ducted to the fender while operating. So if it's not properly hooked up and functioning your not going to get good numbers. You guys are always telling me dyno numbers are biased, now I believe. :lol:


Yes..
As I can see or not see.... no dyno charts.. just somebody's graphing..
Put the hood down... does anybody drive with the hood up ??
Send the dyno charts to Air Aid or let us....

:thumb:
Thanks for the dyno results Mike! Your time and energy are appreciated by all.

I believe Mike has a 2006 1LT with the 2.4L engine.

To clarify (based on my recollection)- here are a couple thing's he's done that may skew the dyno #'s a bit from stock:
- Synthetic Oil
- IMCO #924 Muffler (with larger tip)
- fuse box cover (:rof:)

As stated, he used the STOCK 16" wheels and has an ATX.

Being that his past has submerged him in the automotive world, I'm sure he's aware of/tried to minimize as many variables as possible.

For all you ATX owners... was this done in "D" or "I"?

With that- "Thanks Again!" and let the WAR begin!!! (I have a feeling this thread will get very long!)

Any way we can actually see each pull (graphically)? I'm curious which makes more torque/power in certain bands... not just an overall shootout.

He has a 1LT but it has the 2.4 option.

:thumb:

For all you ATX owners... was this done in "D" or "I"?



Driving in I doesn't give more power it just changes the shift points correct?

He has a 1LT but it has the 2.4 option.
(Edited my previous post to avoid confusion)
Thanks for the clarification CH :eek:! I was basing everything off of what I remember (which isn't much anymore these days :roll:)
Just trying to state some "known" variables for other's reading this thread....

Say... if Mikes got the 2.4 - doesn't (stock) HP seem waaaaayyyy low as opposed to manuf *claimed* hp:eek:? I know the manuf want's to 'market' MAX power, but they claim what (?) ... like 172hp!?!?! Guess I don't know if manuf claims are 'at the wheels' or 'at the crank' (prolly the latter.. and figuring 15% loss for drivetrain drag- those figures are close). The bottom line is the dyno results posted are of the 'shootout' variety (MAX power averaged over multiple pulls). Seems pretty 'apples-to-apples' to me.

Driving in I doesn't give more power it just changes the shift points correct?
STG- Not sure what "I" does vs. "D". I have the MTX in my HHR and have never experienced 'I' or 'D' (via an ATX) first hand. Just posing the question for all ATX-owners. I'm assuming by the posted #'s that this was a 'shootout' style test (only MAX power #'s listed). How 'I' or 'D' affects the overall MAX performance of the engine may be moot.
IMO- these figures only tell 1/2 of the story. When I look at dyno charts, not only do I look at TOTAL increase the part/combo provides... I also consider torque (and the rev ranges) where power is gained over baseline. Since I haven't seen the charts... one can only wonder.
According to the posted figures, CGS wins the 'biggest HP increase' category hands down. Now... if it only makes that type of power around, say, 6000rpm- it's useless to me (I typically don't drive that hard very often). Then again- if it generates a bump in power, say around, 4K... THAT'S GREAT!! Just too little info (for me) to tell... .. .
We'll see what else Mike can come up with.
Who knew Mikes 'BUTT DYNO' was soo accurate!?!!?:wtf:

In all fairness you left the hood up on the AiRaid while dynoing and the hose disconected. The AiRaid unit is meant to be sealed to the hood with the hose ducted to the fender while operating. So if it's not properly hooked up and functioning you're not going to get good numbers. You guys are always telling me dyno numbers are biased, now I believe. :lol:

Yes CH, and any dyno man worth his salt will tell you there's NO air at the fenderwell hole while the car is running on a dyno. Figure it out will you? :lol: Cars overheat and blow head gaskets on dyno's with the hood down. Since my car has now been dyno'd 5 times, I really didn't want to take that chance on it. If anything - this test allowed the Airaid to get MORe fresh air while the CGS system STILL did not receive any "cool air" - when are you going to quit acting like the expert and put up? Let's see the mods on your HHR?

Once again I DID NOT dyno the car. West Coast Vipers did and they do it all week long. Like every shop they have their system and Ilet them do it their way.

I knew this would start a flame war. I've done my part to "better the HHR community" - and now I'm done. If you want to see the actual charts go buy your own intakes and pay to have them dyno'd yourself - then you'll see what idiots you are acting like.

I've searched around on the net and found one site that claims the Airaid makes 8hp/8ftlbs and another that claims only 5hp. I doubt seriously there is an official "Airaid dyno chart: anywhere - and if there is, I guarantee you it was "skewed" to look good. That's what manufacturers do.

AEM sent me an email last week telling me they "dropped" the HHR intake project - wonder why? K&N has been working on the HHR for nearly 6 months with still no product released - wonder why?

The bottom line is CGS has already had experience with Ecotec angines as they do work directly for GM on special projects - and they knew what the engine wanted to "see."

Also, for the record - Henry was 100% wrong about the "lean conditions" of the HHR with an intake. The Air/Fuel charts show that the HHR's computer learns "immediately" what's going on and richens the mixture up plenty - even at WOT. The dyno guy told me that if we could find a way to lean it out we would make even more power.

So now I'm done arguing with people who have no experience modifying HHR engines. What works on another vehicle just doesn't translate to the HHR's Ecotec engine. We have proved that previously with exhaust setups and now again with the intake shootout. Those who buy the CGS will feel the benefits of more power.

(*BTW: to answer the "exhaust" question earlier; this test was done with the IMCO muffler so the figures of all three tests are probably a bit higher than stock figures - but they are still relative to each other.)

I'm going back to running my business now - and probably won't be showing up here much in the future. It's just not worth the treatment you get for trying to help out...

I wasn't trying to say they were dynoing the HHR wrong, I'm saying you tested the AiRaid system wrong. The AirRaid is meant to work as a closed unit. If you were going to run the dyno with the hood open you should have put on some form of cover to simulate it being pressed against the hood and conected the hose to where it should be. Even if people don't agree with you don't call us idiots. :nono: Just because you run a business doesn't make you the Mr. know everything about cars and if people disagree they are idiots. :roll: Come on Mike grow up a little! :p: I've seen you argue geometry with an ex GM engineer because you worked at a magazine not that you've ever been involved in the design of a car or anything. On the other site you call nitrous oxide a true CAI system, that is about the most incorrect thing I have ever heard! Not to mention that according to you plastic is a better heat conducter than metal. :rof: You're as much of an expert on cars as anyone else on this site. ;) You know more than some but less than others, just like myself. :beer:

I wasn't trying to say they were dynoing the HHR wrong, I'm saying you tested the AiRaid system wrong. The AirRaid is meant to work as a closed unit. If you were going to run the dyno with the hood open you should have put on some form of cover to simulate it being pressed against the hood and conected the hose to where it should be. Even if people don't agree with you don't call us idiots. :nono: Just because you run a business doesn't make you the Mr. know everything about cars and if people disagree they are idiots. :roll: Come on Mike grow up a little! :p: I've seen you argue geometry with an ex GM engineer because you worked at a magazine not that you've ever been involved in the design of a car or anything. On the other site you call nitrous oxide a true CAI system, that is about the most incorrect thing I have ever heard! Not to mention that according to you plastic is a better heat conducter than metal. :rof: You're as much of an expert on cars as anyone else on this site. ;) You know more than some but less than others just like myself. :beer:


I think he needs to step off of his pedestal and come down to earth where everyone else is....

Twisting my words again to make them say what you want. I was simply explaining that NO2 is a COLDER charge than the coldest ambient air. If you knew a little about physics and liquified gas expanding you might understand. I've sold and installed plenty of NO2 systems - besides writing articles on the subject. BTW - YOU mad e a very incorrect statement in that same post:

"which creates more expansion of the working fluid (mostly nitrogen) in the cylinder..."

NO2 is 1 part Nitrogen and 2 parts Oxygen (hence the O2). Nitrogen is an inert gas - it doesn't burn.

But let's get back to the topic at hand CH - you haven't done any mods to your HHR's engine, yet you claim to be an expert? Most dyno facilities dyno with the hood up. That is the only way to properly cool the engine. I saw the temps on the HHR with the hood up - it would not have been pretty with it down. the Airaid would have them drawn only hot air and I would have hear more complaints (Waaaah! it wasnt' getting any air! Waaah!) Either way I lose.

Why don't you go next - buy an Airaid and have your's dyno'd hood down - then post the results, it's that simple...:thumb:

I never claimed to be an expert? :confused: That's my point, I'm not a self proclaimed expert like some. :poke: I have a general knowledge of cars because I have worked on enough of my own and others over the years, I have friends that work on cars, family that work on cars, I grew up around a motorcycle club, I had an uncle that was an NHRA/IHRA TA/FC driver, and my former step-dad was a mechanic. I have spent my whole life around cars and motorcycles but there is still plenty to learn so I am far from an expert. :roll: I'm not going to argue with an expert nor claim to be one either. :nuts:

I like the looks of Mike's "tube thingie" better than the "box thingie."
And baby, it's about looks!:thumb:

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Can we all get along?"

Mike, I'm kinda coming at it like C.H. I have worked on cars and mechanical things all my life. I put camshafts and played with my hot rods in high school ('76 era) so I am not too dumb about cars. But I am not an expert either. I don't ask questions to provoke people, I simply have an inquisitive mind (very) so when I see something curious, I ask a question, that's all.

My God, if we can't even ask questions anymore, we stop learning. So we just wanted to understand, if the hood has to be open for cooling, that's fine, but why is the one system not made to function as it would in the field, with a temporary cover in place so the air is sucked in the same way it was designed. That is a perfectly reasonable question. So the possible answers are:

A. I don't know

B. Sure I'll explain it, its because _______________

unfortunately we got

C. Please don't ask questions about things you are not experts in.

Can you understand a person's frustration getting answer C. ?

:poke:

I've done my part to "better the HHR community" - and now I'm done. If you want to see the actual charts go buy your own intakes and pay to have them dyno'd yourself - then you'll see what idiots you are acting like....

Uhhh... so let me get this straight- no charts? I agree with Tokyo on a different thread that the overall results look color coded (so their distinguishable). Guess I'm just as curious as the next guy as to what the power/torque curve actually looks like- as opposed MAX power creation. If it's something you can't/won't distribute ($, time, energy, frustration...) - I understand... just asking.
:twothumbs

Mike,
Thanks for the dyno charts. I think the more info. we have the better off all of us will be!

More air is always better than restricted air. I am certain that the Airaid would not have performed any better having the top portion closed and forcing it to get air from the tube.

As for the questions regarding other work on Mikes HHR-that is all a moot point. His comparison was showing the relative difference between the 2 intake systems. It would not matter any other mods he had, as long as they were all working for both intake dyno's. As for the HP reading, they were probably front wheel horsepower, whereas the Chevy claim of 172 is just the engine not factoring in drivetrain loss.

I do not understand all the aggression. Mike is not strictly in the business for making money. Remember-he only sells HHR parts, and began selling parts only after he bought the car himself. Most businesses sell for more than one vehicle. I believe Mike is interested in improving his car, and has gotten involved working with different companies to develop parts for the HHR. He is providing more of a service for us than trying to get get rich. I am certain that if the Airaid proved to be a good product, he would gladly offer it for sale.

The company that did the dyno had no vested interest, nor were they biased. I can understand the frustration of those who plunked down $200 only to discover that all they have done is increased intake noise and decreased their performance. We live in a free world/democracy. Anybody that doubts the accuracy of Mikes test is welcome to buy both systems and test them for themselves. I for one trust Mike and will order the CGS system as soon as I finish posting this thread. I prefered the looks, anyway.

I do not understand all the aggression. Mike is not strictly in the business for making money. Remember-he only sells HHR parts, and began selling parts only after he bought the car himself. Most businesses sell for more than one vehicle. I believe Mike is interested in improving his car, and has gotten involved working with different companies to develop parts for the HHR. He is providing more of a service for us than trying to get get rich. I am certain that if the Airaid proved to be a good product, he would gladly offer it for sale.

If you go back and read instead of kissing SoCals ass you'll see all the aggression came from him! :confused: He called everyone idiots for asking a few simple questions. :roll:

The intake comparison page is now up on our site for those interested.

You can find it HERE (http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/page/page/3473615.htm).

I think many will be surprised at the results...

Thanks Mike for the numbers. I think you went to hell and back fighting all the bad rap on your cool air dyno's. I think aslong as its not stock who cares. As long as my Baby looks good and runs good thats what matters. I like your CAI and when you get the heat sheild done and I get afew more mods done I'm getting one from you. The dyno speaks for it's self. Anything is better than stock!:thumb:

If you want to see the actual charts go buy your own intakes and pay to have them dyno'd yourself - then you'll see what idiots you are acting like....

He did not call us idiots. He said that if we are accusing him of biasing the test results then we are acting like idiots. And his aggression is in response to certain people attacking him. Just imagine for 1 minute if his dyno results are accurate (as I believe they are). Who is the idiot now? The same people jumping down his throat. Perhaps they are reluctant to come to face the facts that they have just wasted a couple of Ben Franklins.

I kiss no ones ass. BUT I do stand up for what I believe in. And when I see someone being bashed without cause, I will be right there to defend him.

Anything is better than stock!:thumb:

Sorry to disagree, but plunking down money and losing horsepower is not better than stock.

[QUOTE=
I kiss no ones ass. BUT I do stand up for what I believe in. And when I see someone being bashed without cause, I will be right there to defend him.[/QUOTE]

Same here. Why can't we all just get along.:smile:
Don't be haten:D

Sorry to disagree, but plunking down money and losing horsepower is not better than stock.

I'm just saying that Mike's intake is better than stock and no one should attack him for that.

I appologize Lee, you definitely deserve it. :bow: But he turned his frustration towards me for asking a simple question and believing the numbers are a little biased towards the one he has his money invested in. Look at it from a buisness stand point. You are a small retailer that has your time and money invested in a product. You think your product is going to be the only one on the market so you know people are going to be ordering them left and right. All of a sudden a cheaper possibly better working system hits the market and all of your potential customers start snatching it up. What would you do? The place that did the dyno comparison may have been unbiased but the person paying for it wasn't. ;) That's why he's afraid to show the actual dyno graphs. :lol:

I know-just teasing. I like to change things also. But, the reason I change things is to improve my car, not slow it down (except for adding stereo equipment that adds weight).

I know-just teasing. I like to change things also. But, the reason I change things is to improve my car, not slow it down (except for adding stereo equipment that adds weight).

Ya but you got to have the BOOM:bow:

I appologize Lee, you definitely deserve it. :bow: But he turned his frustration towards me for asking a simple question and believing the numbers are a little biased towards the one he has his money invested in. Look at it from a buisness stand point. You are a small retailer that has your time and money invested in a product. You think your product is going to be the only one on the market so you know people are going to be ordering them left and right. All of a sudden a cheaper possibly better working system hits the market and all of your potential customers start snatching it up. What would you do? The place that did the dyno comparison may have been unbiased but the person paying for it wasn't. ;) That's why he's afraid to show the actual dyno graphs. :lol:
THE ANSWER IS IN THE CHARTS, BUT MORE IMPORTATLY, A SMALL RETAILER CAN NOT AND SHOULD NOT PISS OFF IS MAIN BUYING AUDIENCE. MIKE WORKS HARD AND I KNOW IT BUT JEEZ, SOMEONE IS EVEN GOING TO ARGUE WITH THE CHARTS, LET IT GO. I LIKE MIKES SYSTEM BEST. IT LOOKS HOT. WISH IT HAD A POLISHED TUBE! HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND TO ALL.:thumb:

OMG this is horrible. I just felt like i read a soap from the TV shows lol. I will say this I kiss no one @zz and I think Mike has done ALOT for this group. Hey we can all get upset here and there and say things(type) lol. Every one is entitled to their opinion. Mike had an OUT SIDE person do the test. THEY know what they are doing for the test ok so maybe the AIRAID system may work a bit better enclosed what if it didnt would we still knock Mike for being all for HIS product. I have not seen Mike say HEY every one BUY my stuff NOW. In fact if there is a porduct out there we are looking 4 and he doesnt sell it he looks and finds out info and where to get it from......... NOT A PAID ADVERTISMENT lol

Evening guys and gals,

I'd like to now light a match, and add to the flame war. While both sides have equally valid points, all have a singular vested interest: to modify thier own HHR in a way that will improve looks and performance.

Mike and his supporters claim that the CGS short-ram intake performs better than stock, and with his latest opus, better than the one alternative to the CGS, the AirAid. We all respect the fact that Mike has gone to this measure to test them, but we're all concerned with the results, or lack thereof. Yes, there are posted numbers on a pic he made, but there are no dyno charts to back that up. As far as "modified engine" mumbo jumbo, none of us have gone too far in that respect.Dyno numbers will reflect that he's got a replacement muffler, nothing more, and the difference in swapping the can will be minute, at best.

The other side of the house seems to support anything that's not recommended by SoCalHHR's. As a Supporting Vendor, and an HHR owner, this camp needs to realize that his interests are similar to theirs. But, to rally support for his own product line without substantial proof of his claims, while denouncing other vendors of his own product line makes me wary as to why.

Everyone, on both sides, need to understand that we're all interested in personalizing the cars we own, and the major difference in these parts are looks. Our preference on their own aesthetics will be the deciding factor for many of us, as the performance gains for either system, (substantiated dyno runs) are minimal. Not one Member here has done anything drastic to improve performance, rather, we're all driving with air conditioning, heating, sound insulation, forgiving suspensions, a back seat, power windows, etc... When someone goes the distance to really improve their ET's or lap times, then the minute differences in power will mean something. All of your "super-highly-modified-collectors-edition-boxed-set" engines are stock, as is mine, (catback and intake wearing Shnog isn't going to break 200 on a dyno, no matter how many manufacturers and vendors claims I read)

A letter from AirAid I got tonight. Please check their site soon to see some dyno results, in chart form.


Hello Will,

My name is Chris Thomson, the national sales manager @ AIRAID. We are familiar with Mike from SoCalHHR and are not surprised that he is coming after our product. He was interested in carrying our product line but we couldn’t come together on a program for him.

Moving on, we will have the attached Dyno information on our web site later this evening. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to call.

If you are going to be in the Orlando area tomorrow we will be taking part in the Hot Rod Power Tour. We will be at the Orange County Convention Center from 10AM – 8 PM tomorrow if you are in the area please stop by and say hi.

Thank you for being an AIRAID customer,

Chris

Chris Thomson

AIRAID Filter Company

Ya but you got to have the BOOM:bow:


Oh yeah, well... There's always the need for THAT!

This is from Airaid. While being from a manufacturer, we should all be wary of the results, but keep in mind there's no comparison to competing products. Just the stock 2.2 results are compared. For those who don't need dyno charts to substantiate differences in power, skip this, and go with the style that suits your preference. Again, it's all mostly looks. :lol:

http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/1271/hhrhptorque5ck.jpg


Good night!


:cool:

It's poinless to even disagree with SoCal. :roll: How many members of this site have installed a cheap IMCO muffler just because Mike says it is the best and out performs a cat-back without any substantiated proof? :confused: See, there is no point in carrying on with the loyal following. :lol: I'm way outnumbered. :breakdanc :breakdanc :breakdanc

I'm not sure if he said it was better than a cat-back system, but better than other mufflers. I think that everyone likes the muffler, but I'm not bad rapping you CH. Everyone has his or her own opinion.:smile:

We should all :beer:

Well for those who want a price closer to the Airaid, but want the CGS:
http://www.truckshop.com/product.php?productid=20493&cat=868&page=1

It's poinless to even disagree with SoCal. :roll: How many members of this site have installed a cheap IMCO muffler just because Mike says it is the best and out performs a cat-back without any substantiated proof? :confused: See, there is no point in carrying on with the loyal following. :lol: I'm way outnumbered. :breakdanc :breakdanc :breakdanc


Just got the same email


wheres Mike now ?????? in the closet again?

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/hvrodpics/airaiddyno.jpg

I'm not sure if he said it was better than a cat-back system, but better than other mufflers. I think that everyone likes the muffler, but I'm not bad rapping you CH. Everyone has his or her own opinion.:smile:

We should all :beer:

I wasn't trying to put down anyone who did so and it probably does out perform the stock muffler. I was just trying to prove a point. Sorry if I offended anyone. :red: I just suck today. :lol: Here is a photo that Booksmitty posted that I use to cheer myself up.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c122/amarini/unicorn.jpg
I'm happy now even though I am an expert idiot. :twothumbs :rof:

Well for those who want a price closer to the Airaid, but want the CGS:
http://www.truckshop.com/product.php?productid=20493&cat=868&page=1

Ouch. :lol:

I wasn't trying to put down anyone who did so and it probably does out perform the stock muffler. I was just trying to prove a point. Sorry if I offended anyone. :red: I just suck today. :lol: Here is a photo that Booksmitty posted but I use to cheer myself up.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c122/amarini/unicorn.jpg
I'm happy now even though I am an expert idiot. :twothumbs :rof:

You didn't offended me.
Man you are a idiot today:lol: Just jokes there CH you are one h#ll of a guy.:D
http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/images/details.aspx?q=happy&color=both&size=1p&ht=258&wd=344&tht=96&twd=128&su=http%3a%2f%2fwww.lolpictures.com%2fpictures%2f1 663.html&iu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.lolpictures.com%2fpictures%2fh appy_easter.jpg&tu=http%3a%2f%2fimages.picsearch.com%2fis%3f4EBtQ-9Xp6IB4tuEeHfVWKKelKQaMguAMqwMMkIDGmM&sz=18
This is for all of us. Esppesally CH:lol:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c122/amarini/unicorn.jpg
I'm happy now even though I am an expert idiot. :twothumbs :rof:

http://webpages.charter.net/nashme/threadbombs/Rogers.jpg

Just got the same email


wheres Mike now ?????? in the closet again?

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/hvrodpics/airaiddyno.jpg
are you just tryin to piss people off. i for one like what mike is trying to do for hhr owners and start up a business at the same time. i also like many of your views. but we need no heavy ball bustin here.:confused:

I like the looks of Mike's "tube thingie" better than the "box thingie."
And baby, it's about looks!:thumb:

Booksmitty...:yourock:

better to look mahvelous than to feel mahvelous....and the CGS intake does look mahvelous!!

:thumb:

:confused: Can't we all just hit a _ong, I mean get along! A wise man once said " 'tis better to hold one's breath and look foolish, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.":lol:

Being a business owner myself (among other things) of couse I wold promote my products or services first and foremost. It is up to the consumer to decide if they want to do business with me or that can research and find alternatives. Bashing one person instead of offering constructive critisizm or offering alternatives to the consumers is just not a good thing to do as a business man. I think Mike is doing his best with what he has and I applaud him for taking the inititive and starting a business he is passionate about. If what I read was true, he may have made an error in judgement by not offering up theinformation his consumers wanted, but on the otherhand as consumers we are not garunteed total disclosure by any business. We have the right to research and question and if our questions are not answered satisfoactorly there are other avenues to follow. In this forum it is fine to ask and provide research, i just dont think it is good to bash others. I have had this problem on my F-body site before. It seems that a lot of people feel less inhibitions with a DSL connection to hide them from real life. It is all part of what i see as some of the issues with e-commerce, but that is another subject for another time. for now, lets all be happy that a fellow HHR owner has made a name for himself and that we are all offered products and alternatives form him and other that are coming out finally

GUYS, GUYS, Hold on...

I have found the best way to bring a thread to a screaching
halt is for me to post in it.

So, lets just stop here.

The results are in, draw your own conclusion, buy whatever
product you want, but just stop the Bi&%$ing!

Personally, I think Mike did his part.
Decide with your wallet not your mouth.

BTW, if you look at Mikes page, he states that the stock and
the Airradie had more cooler airflow than the CGS. The fan, duh!

And the CGS still had better numbers. Go figure!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Also, I HAVE NOT NOR WILL I MAKE THIS MOD, EITHER WAY.

Reason, the HHR is our only vechicle and if I make engine mods,
I WILL abuse it, and that can not be. I sold my '77 Sirrocco after
three tickets forced me into an insurance pool. It had to go...

Having already been through this on another forum and doing a little comparison myself. I would tend to think that the airraid would perform slightly better at speed on the highway. You will get a small amount of pressure from the front, but not that much. Just like a ram air type setup vehicle speed is going to make a difference. I think 90% of our spirited driving would be around town where you're not going to get that extra benefit. This is not reproduceable on the dyno and I agree that closing the hood to prove it is crazy. Too much heat and not enough airflow.

With that said I do like the CGS design better due to the fact of the longer tube. Longer tube = more laminar flow = more accurate readings with the MAF. With the airraid air is coming in from opposite directions a short distance from the sensor. Testing would have to determine whether or not the airflow is straightened enough by then, but I personally doubt it.

What is the difference if you have MORE airflow (IE. less restriction/shorter pipe) if the computer doesn't READ it correctly?

Just my opinion, but I think it's a little more solidly based than what I've seen posted. That doesn't mean that I haven't bought the nicer "looking" part from time to time, even knowing that it might not work as well.

:2cents:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/hvrodpics/airaiddyno.jpg

HHR not even hitting 150 horse?
Well "tube or box thingie" still not greatly improved preformance.
But most of what I've read about the "tube or box thingie"'s before they were available led me to believe there would be a 7-8 HP boost. That's OK. It always nice to have a few more horses.

But baby nothing beats a unicorn!

:thumb:

Tokyo mentioned that the chart is for the 2.2 version.

:banana: Yesterday I was at SOCAL HHR'S having my NEW CGS INTAKE installed and I had a chance to compare the 2 intakes side-by-side. What I noticed right off was that the airaid intake is kind of heavy. By kind of heavy I mean it definitely ways more than the stock set-up. The intake I had installed I would say weighs less than the stocker. I'm not saying that the weight is enough to offset "8 hp" but I would prefer less weight and better looks personally.As mention the CGS definitely looks alot better as well. :steering: Also after driving home last night I would like to say that I am very pleased with the results. This car just keeps getting better, now if someone would just develope a chip for it. I would also like to say thanks to Mike for putting up with all of our poop and still helping to bring great products to us.:lol: This concludes my opinion, thank you for your time.:roll:

I understand you're just stating an opinion but why even bring up the weight of the different brands? I dont think weight of the CAIs will affect hp gain at all (just as you stated) unless they are 150lbs or more. I just dont understand why something so small such as a couple of lbs difference would even be stated in this thread. Just my opinion.

As I understand it, the difference between the 2.2 and the 2.4 is HUGE. The larger engine has variable valve timing that makes designing the intake much more difficult. Why do you think K&N and AEM have not come out with a system, nor do they plan on it?

In other words, what works on the 2.2 will not necessarily work on the 2.4. And, the dyno test was done on the 2.2.

Lee3333

Wait.....and, I am not taking sides,

So, if I understand your hypothisis.....

If the dyno chart submitted by Airaid is for a 2.2, it is in fact, not relavent to the DISCUSSION. Since the test was done with an engine not involved in the discussion.

Isn't that the same as testing an air induction system (Airaid), open and with the hood up????

Sounds like everyone is "massaging" the data to fit their own beliefs!! Do you not agree???

In any event, I'm waiting for all this to "shake out" and then decide which system I want.:confused:

:confused: I understand you're just stating an opinion but why even bring up the weight of the different brands? I dont think weight of the CAIs will affect hp gain at all (just as you stated) unless they are 150lbs or more. I just dont understand why something so small such as a couple of lbs difference would even be stated in this thread. Just my opinion.
Which is it you understand, or you don't? I stated that it was a preference and an opinion. That's pretty clear.:eek: Go stab at someone else,I don't care which one you buy. I'm happy with mine and thats really all I'm saying.:nuts:

Lee3333

Wait.....and, I am not taking sides,

So, if I understand your hypothisis.....

If the dyno chart submitted by Airaid is for a 2.2, it is in fact, not relavent to the DISCUSSION. Since the test was done with an engine not involved in the discussion.

Isn't that the same as testing an air induction system (Airaid), open and with the hood up????

Sounds like everyone is "massaging" the data to fit their own beliefs!! Do you not agree???

In any event, I'm waiting for all this to "shake out" and then decide which system I want.:confused:
That's the best idea. I have not driven a car with the airaid, but I'm perfectly satisfied with what I have, so it really doesn't matter to me even if the airaid were better. Good luck with your decision.

Lee3333

Isn't that the same as testing an air induction system (Airaid), open and with the hood up????

Actually, the Airaid intake is NOT a "sealed' induction system. The entire front of the unit is open - sucking in lots of hot air from the radiator fans and overflow bottle which sticks right up into the airbox. Opening the hood and running the intake hose directly to the 48" fan blowing cold air onto it could only help the situation. Since it's not "sealed" there would be no adverse flow effects.

Here's an overhead pic of the front:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Airbox_Front_Sm.jpg

You can easily see how lots of hot air gets sucked in through the front. The overflow bottle is radiating heat, the electric fans are also blowing against the front of the engine (sucking heat out of the radiator), and all this hot air rises into the airbox.

I think we need to quit majoring on the minors here - the hood up can only help.

Booksmitty...:yourock:

better to look mahvelous than to feel mahvelous....and the CGS intake does look mahvelous!!

:thumb:

You betcha! Amen!:thumb:

That's a good picture for anyone interested in these intakes.

Actually, the Airaid intake is NOT a "sealed' induction system. The entire front of the unit is open - sucking in lots of hot air from the radiator fans and overflow bottle which sticks right up into the airbox. Opening the hood and running the intake hose directly to the 48" fan blowing cold air onto it could only help the situation. Since it's not "sealed" there would be no adverse flow effects.

Here's an overhead pic of the front:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Airbox_Front_Sm.jpg

You can easily see how lots of hot air gets sucked in through the front. The overflow bottle is radiating heat, the electric fans are also blowing against the front of the engine (sucking heat out of the radiator), and all this hot air rises into the airbox.

I think we need to quit majoring on the minors here - the hood up can only help.
Thanks Mike...I understand that point from the initial discussion many posts back.

My comment was more in the direction to those people who issued objections to the raised hood. By them posting data that is not related to the discussion, they are essentially doing the same thing that you are accused of.....slanting data.

Now Mike, as someone who has witnessed and "lightly" participated in 100's of dyno tests, I also need to say that a post of the dyno charts would have prevented this "crap" from occuring. I would still like to see them, as a true validation to the performance of both systems.

Reviewing the torque and power curves over the ENTIRE RPM range is an important factor in decision making (you know as well as others, that horsepower and/or torque can drastically change, dependant on design, through the RPM range).

Oh and by the way, I have done some "prototype" business with both companies as a representative of my former (now retired) employer.

And, I still am not taking sides !!!

I was simply explaining that NO2.... <blah blah blah> I've sold and installed plenty of NO2 systems - besides writing articles on the subject.

NO2 is 1 part Nitrogen and 2 parts Oxygen (hence the O2). Nitrogen is an inert gas - it doesn't burn.

NO2 = Nitrogen Dioxide (air pollutant)

N2O = Nitrous Oxide (laughing gas, oxidizer for the internal combustion engine)

Now that you know that, perhaps you should go back and edit all those excellent articles you've written on the subject (unless, of course, the articles were about air pollution and the abundance of NO2 in the atmosphere). ;)

OK so the Airriad is dynoed on a 2.2. And they sell the same Pn for both the 2.2 &2.4? that is just bad on thier part. What we should all look into is getting the HHR to run on Speed Density rather than MAF. This would eliminate some of the issues with intake design., My 1993 Camaro LT1 is a SD car and my intake is a 3 inch piece of elecrical conduit. I picked up 19 HP with it. My fried took his MAF 95 camaro to SD and picked up 24 HP and got better drivability. It is all in the programming. sorry to go off on a tangent, but there is a lot of research that can be doen to optomize a FI intake.

At room temperature, N2O is quite unreactive with most substances, including alkali metals, halogens, and even ozone. It is therefore widely used as a propellant in aerosol cans in place of the CFCs which can damage the ozone layer. When heated sufficiently, however, N2O decomposes exothermically to N2 and O2. If this reaction occurs in the combustion chamber of an automobile, 3 moles of gas would be produced from 2 moles, providing an extra boost to the piston, as well as liberating more heat. It also has a number of other benefits. The increased oxygen provides more efficient combustion of fuel, the nitrogen buffers the increased cylinder pressure controlling the combustion, and the latent heat of vaporisation of the N2O reduces the intake temperature. Therefore N2O is occasionally injected into the fuel lines of racing cars to give more power to the engine and to give the car exceptional acceleration.

:confused:
Which is it you understand, or you don't? I stated that it was a preference and an opinion. That's pretty clear.:eek: Go stab at someone else,I don't care which one you buy. I'm happy with mine and thats really all I'm saying.:nuts:

wow....you should learn to relax. I'm stating my opinion just like you stated yours. Just by bringing up the weight of the CAIs looks to me as if you're insinuating that weight is an issue? Its like me saying I prefer the airaid because the fonts on the stickers used are smaller and that might help out with better hp. Next time you post an opinion make sure it pertains to the subject (no one was talking about weight, color, size, etc when this subject was started).

wow....you should learn to relax. I'm stating my opinion just like you stated yours. Just by bringing up the weight of the CAIs looks to me as if you're insinuating that weight is an issue? Its like me saying I prefer the airaid because the fonts on the stickers used are smaller and that might help out with better hp. Next time you post an opinion make sure it pertains to the subject (no one was talking about weight, color, size, etc when this subject was started).
:thumb: You can talk circles all day, I still don't care!:roll:

NO2 = Nitrogen Dioxide (air pollutant)

N2O = Nitrous Oxide (laughing gas, oxidizer for the internal combustion engine)

Now that you know that, perhaps you should go back and edit all those excellent articles you've written on the subject (unless, of course, the articles were about air pollution and the abundance of NO2 in the atmosphere). ;)

do you think this site is for bashing, 1 post from you and we all know what your about.:wtf:

do you think this site is for bashing, 1 post from you and we all know what your about.:wtf:

Bashing?
I was merely trying to correct someone that apparently believes they are a subject matter expert (I don't know the guy personally and I have no idea of his actual knowledge). One of my greatest pet peeves is people incorrectly referring to nitrous oxide as NO2. I generally don't say anything, just go on about my business. In this case, however, since he incorrectly said it repeatedly and claims to know what he's talking about, I had to say something. Just because I hadn't posted on here prior to that doesn't mean I'm all about bashing people, which is something I rarely do. I tend to rely on these sort of forums for input, and don't often post much (see, I've been registered here since February and hadn't posted earlier, though I'm logged on here, reading, quite often). I don't support the spread of misinformation, and since nobody else had spoken up, I chose to. People completely unfamiliar, or just new, to motor vehicle modifications can take something they read on these forums to be the truth, especially when it comes from someone that appears to be respected and is believed to be a good knowledge base (at least for the most part). To the best of my knowledge, correcting someone is not bashing. As far as the comment I added at the bottom, that was just meant to be a smart-ass comment, with no foul intentions (hence the wink). If you took it as bashing, then I apologize. Since it was not directed at you, I don't feel it's necessary to apologize, but since I'm not the sort of person that enjoys pissing people off, I figured I'd extend the apology as an act of kindness.

So, with that said, you know nothing about me. Assume what you want about my character, I don't particularly care, but just remember that you haven't got the slightest idea what I'm about.

Just received and installed my CGS intake. Goes on very quick and easy. Noticible difference in both power and sound. To be honest, it is a lot louder when accelerating, but it is a nice, performance kind of noise. The cer feels much quicker. Before, it would spin the tires at a little more than 1/2 throttle. Now, it does it at a little over 1/4. The car pulls much stronger. I know I said that I was waiting to try the car stock at the drag strip, but I figure that is a few weeks away, and I will bring the stock intake with me and pop it on for the first few runs, then put on the CGS and make another couple of passes. Then, I will have the exhaust installed and return to the track with the stock intake and IMCO muffler, then test it with both the upgraded intake and exhaust. This way, I will get a complete picture of what does what.

Bottom line-love the intake.

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