Is there a mod that would allow the HHR to run on E-85 / Ethanol fuel blends??

From my understanding it should be nothing more than a tune mod that I see a vendor is offering.

Your in kansas? what part? cause i haven't seen any e-85 pumps

While not all "Kwik Shops" have them many of the newer stores do and maybe I am mistaken but I am almost sure that the store at 21st and Webb has it.

But all of the "Kwik Shops" do sell a 10%->5% Ethanol fuel blend but the owners manual states not use the fuel??

--David


[Side note for others "Kwik Shop" is a 24 hour quick stop shop which is a division of 'Dillions' which happens to be a divison of Krogger Foods which is known nation wide.]

At the minimum it would be a custom PCM software. But then you wouldn't be able to run regular gasoline, it would be E85 only. The new Malibu has software smart enough to figure out what's in the tank without a dedicated sensor. Maybe that strategy would work on the HHR also.

The question then is if the fuel injectors on t he HHR are large enough to flow the extra fuel that E85 requires.

Which rasises the final point: E85 reduces your mileage. It has to be a lot cheaper to cost less than gas as you will use more of it.

If I could I would rather run the E85 knowing that 15% of the money is staying at home.. and with changes in the why that Ethanol fuel blends are being made the cost should soon be 15% less than your current gas blends.

If I could I would rather run the E85 knowing that 15% of the money is staying at home.. and with changes in the why that Ethanol fuel blends are being made the cost should soon be 15% less than your current gas blends.

Essentially both statements are incorrect.

Because MTBE has been prohibited since April 1st of this year as an additive, all the states or areas that WAS using it, substituted ethanol for the blend. Because our infrastructure is such, we cannot produce enough ethanol to now support that need. So we are importing the majority from South America, with a large "tax"(that some politicians are talking about reducing/eliminating). So basically, you are still supporting "governments" of other countries.

Also, you will be very disappointed in your vehicles performance and mileage. Mileage will be reduced by about 25-30% (I also have confirmed this, with a 2005 Chev. Avalanche).

The information I just supplied is available from several different sources, but the best, and probably most authoritive, is the web site for the the ethanol producers association.....which I do not have currently or I would link it.

And frankly, I writing this because people need to be made aware that ethanol is not the "savior" that it is portrayed as.

Good luck, with your decision.

Oh, and I forgot to say, ethanol was discussed in a previous topic and thread. And, those statements confirm mine.

I hate to say it, but Snoopy is right.

The only advantage is that not as much oil per gallon is used. The flipside to that is that you use more. So its a complete washout.

Also, not only does the US not have enough ethanol, it doesn't have enough plants set up to meet the demad for E-85.

Here's a link (http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/ethanol.html) for the U.S. Department of Energy's pages on ethonal and E-85.

Hope this helps.

Here is further documentation from GM's own website.

Pay particular attention to the satement that GM "carefully disguises" in regrad to cruising mileage.

http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/energy_flexfuel.html#

vehicles running on E85 may have a cruising range that is about 25% shorter than the same vehicle operating on regular gasolineJust their friendly way of saying you'll get 25% less mpg!:smile:

Just their friendly way of saying you'll get 25% less mpg!:smile:

Wow I am now confused, as most of the time:smile: Why would any company support a new so-called efficient fuel if it reduced your mpg:confused: I believe the statments I have read but can not figure out why the E85 is even getting promoted by the company other than a way to way to say "Heh we are helping the environment" and at what costs??? I would think a better approach would be to invest into R&D and develop a fuel that is both environment friendly and effiecient.

Julian

Wow I am now confused, as most of the time:smile: Why would any company support a new so-called efficient fuel if it reduced your mpg:confused: I believe the statments I have read but can not figure out why the E85 is even getting promoted by the company other than a way to way to say "Heh we are helping the environment" and at what costs??? I would think a better approach would be to invest into R&D and develop a fuel that is both environment friendly and effiecient.

Julian

Well said.

?? Wow ??

In my older car a 1997 Ford Taurus.. I got better MPG when running the Ethanol fuel blend.. by almost 3mpg..

And maybe because I live in a farm state with an Ethanol Plant, with my 'store member id' I am able to purchase the Ethanol fuel blend for less than standard unleaded....

And when I was a kid living in a farm town .. an old farmer that I worked for two summers had an Ethanol still on his farm .. and no you could not drink this stuff .. and that was all he used in his Modified "1950's John Deer Tractor".... and to heat his barn in the winter time... and once your get a farm based ethanol still going on a farm and keep it feed with farm waste.. it is like free fuel.. which saved this old farmer thousands a year...

And GMC sells nothing but Ethanol fuel based vehicles in Brazil... a country that has no oil reserves and 'grows it own' Ethanol fuel...

If it was not that from my use of the fuel in my riding lawn mower... which when I use standard unlead I use two gallons to mow my lawn and when I use the Ethanol fuel blend I only use one gallon to mow... And my personal use of the fuel in my older Ford.. I would almost believe that using Ethanol fuel blend gets lower MPG...

But the HHR owners manual state not to use so have not tired it yet....

--David

Wow I am now confused, as most of the time:smile: Why would any company support a new so-called efficient fuel if it reduced your mpg:confused: I believe the statments I have read but can not figure out why the E85 is even getting promoted by the company other than a way to way to say "Heh we are helping the environment" and at what costs??? I would think a better approach would be to invest into R&D and develop a fuel that is both environment friendly and effiecient.

Julian

POLITICS.......:cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Because I have researched this issue very extensively for investment purposes, I could write a research paper for my masters degree on it. We will pay dearly in the end.

I'm not a "crazy", but when big business and the government join in promotion of something it needs to be reviewed thoroughly and realistically.

Unleaded "designer" fuels is another example.

Enough said

:confused: ...Because I have researched this issue very extensively for investment purposes...:confused:

If in your statement you mean no fast money to be made you are most likely right... as the product is so low tech... and can be made at home if it was not law enforcement would think you were trying to make something else to drink...

?? Wow ??

In my older car a 1997 Ford Taurus.. I got better MPG when running the Ethanol fuel blend.. by almost 3mpg..

And maybe because I live in a farm state with an Ethanol Plant, with my 'store member id' I am able to purchase the Ethanol fuel blend for less than standard unleaded....

And when I was a kid living in a farm town .. an old farmer that I worked for two summers had an Ethanol still on his farm .. and no you could not drink this stuff .. and that was all he used in his Modified "1950's John Deer Tractor".... and to heat his barn in the winter time... and once your get a farm based ethanol still going on a farm and keep it feed with farm waste.. it is like free fuel.. which saved this old farmer thousands a year...

And GMC sells nothing but Ethanol fuel based vehicles in Brazil... a country that has no oil reserves and 'grows it own' Ethanol fuel...

If it was not that from my use of the fuel in my riding lawn mower... which when I use standard unlead I use two gallons to mow my lawn and when I use the Ethanol fuel blend I only use one gallon to mow... And my personal use of the fuel in my older Ford.. I would almost believe that using Ethanol fuel blend gets lower MPG...

But the HHR owners manual state not to use so have not tired it yet....

--David

Don't confuse E85 with the 10% or 15% blends (some are also the designer fuels). GM states in the owners manual, that you CAN use up to 15% ethanol blend (no methanol). You CANNOT use E-85.

As an additional note...notice that the great majority of vehicles that are able to use E85 are the more powerful, full size cars and trucks (Gm "dropped" the previous generation of smaller engines that would use E85). 2 reasons....to impress the consumer they have access to a "cheaper" fuel in a "gas hog" and 2...those vehicles have the additional HP to possibly cover the decrease in performance.

The use of E85 would be a different issue IF we could produce, even current demand. However, industry experts say it will be 2 years before we can build enough "refining" capacity to meet todays use requirement. We need to build better and faster if this country is to be independent from foreign influences.

I'm done...that's my 3 cents.

:confused: :confused:

If in your statement you mean no fast money to be made you are most likely right... as the product is so low tech... and can be made at home if it was not law enforcement would think you were trying to make something else to drink...

No....I have made fast money of the ethanol companies. And I still do....off and on. That is my choice in a capitalist, free society. But, I do know when to get out.

Beware,,,,,,,If your vehicle is not rated for E-85, then your fuel tank and fuel lines are not coated to protect them from the high concentration of Ethonal...which will eat them from the inside out.....

This is why E-85 fuel will cost you more at the pump than unleaded regular....because Ethanol can not be transported through the normal underground pipe lines and has to be transported by truck or rail tankers...

Wow I am now confused, as most of the time:smile: Why would any company support a new so-called efficient fuel if it reduced your mpg:confused: I believe the statments I have read but can not figure out why the E85 is even getting promoted by the company other than a way to way to say "Heh we are helping the environment" and at what costs??? I would think a better approach would be to invest into R&D and develop a fuel that is both environment friendly and effiecient.

Julian
It's all in the computer prgramming. The current E85 cars/trucks are tuned for maximum gasoline peformance, thus less MPG using E85. SAAB has a 9-3 that's tuned to E100 and it has butter performance than he gasoline counterpart. The cost to convert a gas only to E85 compatible is cost prohibitive. So whatever you save frm E85 (if any) will not be recoup'd from the conversion.

In order to convert you will need an Alcohol sensor in the tank , New fuel lines ,New fuel pump ,New injectors and of coarse a Reprogrammed ECM .

I do understand the lose in mileage that associated with E85 but you need to realize that if you built a motor to run on E85 and occasionally Gasoline then you would be able to take advantage of the 105 octane and erase the loss. More importantly you'd be able to make the same power we get in a 2.4 with a 1.4 turbocharged that runs just E85 and receive better fuel economy. We are currently testing a Tahoe with a custom tune on E85 on a 2000 mi road trip to see what we can get out of a tune for E85 for mileage . I received a report that shows we narrowed the gap Between E85 14.7 mpg and 87octane 15.9 mpg . We cannot just switch to E85 it will wreck the world economy it has to be done gradually . We will catch up with demand as they start getting more efficient with harvesting it . We have to do this what our choice ? Keep going to war to secure Oil ? Keep wrecking the Ozone ? Hydrogen ?[ HA HA the least effective way to make fuel ]

BTW you'll see the advantages of Boosted applications when E85 becomes more Available and Cost effective .

Again, I'll remind people how POLITICAL this topic is. Look at the conflicting information.....look at everyone that has a friend, "that has this and gets this". This is a forum structured to allow this type of discussion....and that is good.

I suggest anyone interested in using and supporting E85 do some serious research.

Do not believe what I tell you, or for that matter, what anyone else states on this forum. Some people are correct in their statements, some are partially correct, some are totally wrong (in my opinion).

So, do your own research with creditable, factual websites and organizations. Do not accept personal testomonials unless distributed but creditable organizations, and then be cautious....something like, "...i added this $12 air device and I increased my gas mileage by 33%"....yeah, right. Remember, the web DOES contain a lot of erroneous information.

Again, good luck.

Earlier in the thread the question was raised why the auto manufacturers support E85. I was wondering the same thing until I stumbled on the answer (it is kept very quiet in the industry). The government threw a big carrot out: A flex-fuel vehicle will get a huge boost to the official CAFE fuel economy rating. Remember that GM/Ford etc all have to obtain corporate average mileage numbers. A model that can run on E85 is given a "fantasy number" to encourage E85 capable vehicles. For instance, the E85 Suburban has a CAFE rating of 30+ mpg. Not because it could ever achieve 30 mpg, but because of politics.

The politics, of course, are that mid west farmers are a big voting block and when money is put in their pockets, the "correct" candidate wins...

Zwede....

You are absolutely correct!!! That is ONE of the items I hinted at when I mentioned the government and big business "shaking hands" on an issue and the need to look at it more closely.

I commend you for your research.:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

I'm on the other side of this. Ethanol can and will be a significant factor in our dependancy on foreign fuels. The fact that we don't have enough of it right now, is because there was no need for it. Oil was cheap. Now that oil has went up, and is likely to stay up. (gone are the days of 10 dollar barrels of oil). We have to catch up with alternate fuels. And by catch up. I mean in research, production, shipping, etc. There have been huge advancements just in the past year or so. Somewhere in Europe, someone was able to create an ethanol blend that was less corrosive than the current blend. This will help greatly in the shipping area. I can say for a fact right now that all across Nebraska, Iowa, and other corn belt states that Ethanol plants are popping up faster than the corn that feeds them.

Now with that being said. Is corn based ethanol in it's current state the answer? Heck no. How quickly did the infrastructure for gasoline get built up? I'm pretty sure it didn't happen in 5 years. So neither is Ethanol. Give it some time. Brazil seems to be doing all right. Yes I know there Ethanol is manufactured using sugar, rather than Corn. And yes I know corn is the least efficent "plant material" to make ethanol out of, but we have plenty of it.


**edit** BTW if ethanol (either sugar based, or corn based) isn't the answer then what is?
A. It's a renewalable resource grown right here by Americans
B. It will provide jobs in the Heartland (which is badly needed), and help decrease the farmers dependency on the federal government (which is also badly needed. The whole farm subsidy thing is a mess!)
C. Oil still going to have to be used, and we'll need to open up areas where that oil is used to help supplement the ethanol production.

We sure as hell can't depend on oil from some of the most unstable countries in the world.

I don't think anyone is saying the ethonal isn't good, just that its not a savior, and that right now, it is not cost effective.

I don't think anyone is saying the ethonal isn't good, just that its not a savior, and that right now, it is not cost effective.


You know, I just wrote 7 paragraphs as a rebuttal to "the other side" of this topic. But I deleted it all.

I just realized that this thread was started on a simple question and it turned into a political discussion....(which I contributed to) so, gentleman, believe what you want...I'm out of here.:bye: :bye: :bye:

We're very lucky to live up nort here in Minnesoooota, ya know. You betcha we have lots of E85 everywhere! 'Bout 300 pumps in state ya know. It's about as easy to find as tater-tot hot dish suppers at the local VFW.

I have a '02 Tahoe that uses E85 about 90% of the time. The only time I don't use it is when I'm out in the sticks and can't find a pump.

As far as mileage is concerned, I see about 1/2 mile per gallon less that with regular gas. We also get E85 about $0.40 - $0.50 less per gallon than regular too. As far as I'm concerned, lets stick it to "our friends" in the Middle East, convert all vehicles to E85 and try to be come as energy independant as possible.

I read all that garbage about E85 and losing 25% MPG and power. My own expereince say's otherwise. It's plenty cost effective for me. Save about $10.00 a tank!

The only reason I purchased and HHR is all the flexfuel Impalas were gone when I tried purchase during the last 0% event. Well, I did like the looks of the HHR too!

As far as I'm concerned, lets stick it to "our friends" in the Middle East, convert all vehicles to E85 and try to be come as energy independant as possible.

I say suck them dry and then rely on our own natural resources. :nuts: I like oil and will probably never switch unless forced. I don't buy into the whole E-85 is the savior thing. I think its meant for tree hugging hippies. But thats just my opinion. :nuts:

I say suck them dry and then rely on our own natural resources. :nuts: I like oil and will probably never switch unless forced. I don't buy into the whole E-85 is the savior thing. I think its meant for tree hugging hippies. But thats just my opinion. :nuts:


I aint no tree huggin hippie!:p: Hell, I found out well after I purchased our Tahoe that it was E85. I bought the damn thing to run over those "2 door specks":lol: those "hippies" drive. Might as well be speed bumps to me.:nuts:

Anywho, My only point is I'm tired of send our greenbacks over to Abdul and the gang just so they can use the $$ to take pot shots at US.:cussing:

I say suck them dry and then rely on our own natural resources. :nuts: I like oil and will probably never switch unless forced. I don't buy into the whole E-85 is the savior thing. I think its meant for tree hugging hippies. But thats just my opinion. :nuts:
CH
A couple of interesting articles have been written, by credentialed people, that support your first line statement.

The tree hugging hippie comment was just a joke. ;) :lol: If you support E-85 thats cool but nothing I've seen, read, or heard has yet to sell me on it. Maybe that will change at some point or maybe the government will force it on me like this 10% crap I have to put in my tank now. :( I'm one of those people who believe we have a plentiful supply of untapped oil and that alternative energy isn't feasible or cost effective at this time. Like I said maybe that will change but I don't feel it will be during my lifetime. I truly do feel we should use up as much of everyone elses resources before we tap our own. :lol:

The tree hugging hippie comment was just a joke. ;) :lol: If you support E-85 thats cool but nothing I've seen, read, or heard has yet to sell me on it. Maybe that will change at some point or maybe the government will force it on me like this 10% crap I have to put in my tank now. :( I'm one of those people who believe we have a plentiful supply of untapped oil and that alternative energy isn't feasible or cost effective at this time. Like I said maybe that will change but I don't feel it will be during my lifetime. I truly do feel we should use up as much of everyone elses resources before we tap our own. :lol:

Same with my tree hugging comment.:D I agree there's plenty of oil. We need more refineries here to process the stuff so I can quite staring at the econ #'s on my DIC:nuts:

Well I am not here to debate anything, only provide something useful , yes usefull info from me not a smartas* comment.
Anyway this goes to the frist question E-85 mod?? Before you go and do something like that your car warranty is not covered. Also check out this TSB number on the topic worth a look if you want to find a mod for your car
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/General-Motors/1152774000000_1153292400000_06-06-04-035/index.html