http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle5496.jpg
http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle5497.jpg
http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle5498.jpg

How much did the read speakers cost?

Are those the speakers in the premium system? I knew the factory Pioneers are crap but I didn't expect they were that bad. The speakers and subwoofer are going to be my after the holidays project. I'm going to stick with the stock head unit for now and just use a line level converter for the sub. I think I'm going to go all Kicker. It will bring back old school memories of my first system.

Great post SoCalHHR! Are you going to use the amp to power just the subs, or all of the speakers?

Question,

Were the original speakers rated at 4 ohms of impedance or were they 8 ohms. You make it sound like you dropped from something higher than 4 ohms down to 4 ohms. If this is the case, you could cause damage to your system if the stock radio does not support a 4 ohm load.........

Outstanding job SoCal! Can't wait for the rest of the article to be finished. Any possibility of giving us the total cost so we cand send letter to Santa ASAP?

Once again, another quality post from SoCal!

Fenris

Hi Guys! Just got back from the holiday weekend, so here are some answers:

“How much did the rear speakers cost?”

$69/pair

“Are those the speakers in the premium system?”

My system was the “Basic” 1LT stereo. I planned on upgrading from the start. Can’t say if they are identical to the 2LT rear door speaks, but the fronts are a great sounding set of component speakers (6.5 woofers/1-in tweeters).

“Are you going to use the amp to power just the subs, or all of the speakers?”

I will be replacing the head unit with a Pioneer model as soon as Scosche completes the in-dash fit-kit. Should be sometime next month. The new Pioneer will be 50 watts x 4 and it will drive all the door spaks. I will also be installing a sub amp in the battery compartment solely to power my rear sub, which – is still to be decided on.

“Were the original speakers rated at 4 ohms of impedance or were they 8 ohms. You make it sound like you dropped from something higher than 4 ohms down to 4 ohms. If this is the case, you could cause damage to your system if the stock radio does not support a 4 ohm load.........”

The stock rears were 8-ohms. We tested the head and it is capable of driving 4-ohms all around without problems. The front component speakers are actually 4-ohms in total. Unfortunately, we discovered that this Delphi head has a lower output for the rear channels than it does in front; some kind of internal GM “balancing act” to prevent overdriving the cheaper rear speaks. Has nothing to do with the fader – you can’t increase the output. This was intended as a “quick-fix” to get better sound while we are waiting for the in-dash fit kit to be released (it is still being designed). As soon as we get one…it’s aftermarket Pioneer CD unit all the way!

“Any possibility of giving us the total cost so we can send a letter to Santa ASAP?”

For the rear doors:

Speakers: $69
Insulating Spray Foam $6 (Home Depot)
Installation: - will vary – see your local car stereo dealer.

At least under $100

Remember, the rear doors will rattle occasionally when the bass hits hard if you do not use the insulating foam trick. Better to fix it while you have things apart, rather than having to pull it all down again later.

Glad it helped clear the air on this…

Thanks SoCal! My doors rattle with the premium sound system and no upgrades yet, but I'll wait to fill them when I replace the factory speakers.

Whats the part number of the SCOSCHE 6 1/2 INCH adapter ring ?




Hi Guys! Just got back from the holiday weekend, so here are some answers:

“How much did the rear speakers cost?”

$69/pair

“Are those the speakers in the premium system?”

My system was the “Basic” 1LT stereo. I planned on upgrading from the start. Can’t say if they are identical to the 2LT rear door speaks, but the fronts are a great sounding set of component speakers (6.5 woofers/1-in tweeters).

“Are you going to use the amp to power just the subs, or all of the speakers?”

I will be replacing the head unit with a Pioneer model as soon as Scosche completes the in-dash fit-kit. Should be sometime next month. The new Pioneer will be 50 watts x 4 and it will drive all the door spaks. I will also be installing a sub amp in the battery compartment solely to power my rear sub, which – is still to be decided on.

“Were the original speakers rated at 4 ohms of impedance or were they 8 ohms. You make it sound like you dropped from something higher than 4 ohms down to 4 ohms. If this is the case, you could cause damage to your system if the stock radio does not support a 4 ohm load.........”

The stock rears were 8-ohms. We tested the head and it is capable of driving 4-ohms all around without problems. The front component speakers are actually 4-ohms in total. Unfortunately, we discovered that this Delphi head has a lower output for the rear channels than it does in front; some kind of internal GM “balancing act” to prevent overdriving the cheaper rear speaks. Has nothing to do with the fader – you can’t increase the output. This was intended as a “quick-fix” to get better sound while we are waiting for the in-dash fit kit to be released (it is still being designed). As soon as we get one…it’s aftermarket Pioneer CD unit all the way!

“Any possibility of giving us the total cost so we can send a letter to Santa ASAP?”

For the rear doors:

Speakers: $69
Insulating Spray Foam $6 (Home Depot)
Installation: - will vary – see your local car stereo dealer.

At least under $100

Remember, the rear doors will rattle occasionally when the bass hits hard if you do not use the insulating foam trick. Better to fix it while you have things apart, rather than having to pull it all down again later.

Glad it helped clear the air on this…

I'm not sure of the actual Scosche #, but you can get them throuh Crutchfield (www.crutchfield.com), as part # 142 SAT6.

Hope this helps,

Whats the part number of the SCOSCHE 6 1/2 INCH adapter ring ?

Save yourself the money, you won't need them. Just take out the four phillips head screws that hold in the speaker and take the speaker out. Then you can screw the new speakers into the factory ones without even removing them. I don't think you need the foam but that's just my opinion.

Save yourself the money, you won't need them. Just take out the four phillips head screws that hold in the speaker and take the speaker out. Then you can screw the new speakers into the factory ones without even removing them.

ONLY if you have a 2LT. Mine is a 1LT and it needed the rings.

Good to know...

:D

Good point! :beer: I have only done the speakers on a 2LT so it may be different for the 1LT or LS. :bow:

Captain i'm glad we have the same base. Your be the first one I will email when I replace my stock speakers for sure. However Socal did provided detail pictures and also offers best advise for his base. So if you have a 1LT email Socalhhr for audio assistance and email Captain for 2LT assistance is the rule of the day.

email Captain for 2LT assistance is the rule of the day.

Yeah right! If you email me I'll never respond, I don't check my email often. :roll: If you have a question private message would work better for me. ;)

here is the direct link to the Scoshe rings on Crutchfield... http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XDyEUfuSJD8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=142+SAT6&i=142SAT6

-wC

Remeber you won't need them if you have the premium Pioneer system.

and SoCal...Crutchfield didnt like me ordering them because it says I have an HHR and those won't fit...the GM/Jeep ones do fit...so whats the deal?

GM/Jeep--->http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XDyEUfuSJD8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=103200&I=142SAC656

I can tell you first hand that those Jeep ones wont fit:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c122/amarini/Picture180.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c122/amarini/Picture181.jpg
The Scoche ones look like the right size and shape and SoCal has them installed so they have to work. I don't really think you will need them for any HHR. Trust me from first hand experience that all you have to do to replace the speakers is unscrew 4 phillips head screws. I don't think it would be any different on any model of HHR. I could be wrong about different models. :confused: Is there anybody around me with a 1LT or LS that needs there speakers done so I can find out? :confused: I'm offering free help to anyone in my area just to answer my question! :beer:

Whenever I get around to changing the speakers I'll let you know- I've got a 1LT

Maybe one day this week if I have some downtime at the shop I'll rip my door apart and see :)

is maryland around you?

haha j/k...I will let you guys know when I get the set of alpines I'm planning on putting in there...

-wC

Those were shots of the factory speaker rings BTW.

and SoCal...Crutchfield didnt like me ordering them because it says I have an HHR and those won't fit...the GM/Jeep ones do fit...so whats the deal?

GM/Jeep--->http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XDyEUfuSJD8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=103200&I=142SAC656

Hey Wheelsee! Hmmmmm??? those don'[t look anything like the 142 SAT6 rings I have:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Crutchfield_142SAT_Ringssm.jpg

See the difference?

Here's a "real-life" pic:

http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle5918.jpg

Something fishy at Crutchfield. Show them this.

Hope it helps,

yeah I know...there are the Sat 6's which I linked to earlier on the 2nd page here(http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XDyEUfuSJD8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=142+SAT6&i=142SAT6)

but those are labeled as Toyota Rings...

the other ones that I linked to on this page are labeled as GM/Jeep rings...
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XDyEUfuSJD8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=103200&I=142SAC656

so I'm confused a little bit...I mean the toyota ones are cheaper and they do work(as seen by your post) but I'm just confused as to why Crutchfield recomends the GM/Jeep ones...

-wC

I don't know - but the GM/Jeep ones look cheaper. I would rather have the Toyota ones (if that's what they are). Looking at my pics, I can see its a Scosche part number ("SAT 6"), - could mean "Speaker Adapter Toyota 6-inch" ???

And CH - just so you don't think I'm totally whack, here's a pic of the stock 1LT rear speakers. Notice they don't have a trim ring, but the speaker basket is actually molded into the adapter - wierd!

http://www.songramp.com/photos/ArtistArticle5919.jpg

Hope this helps,

The rings do kind of look alike? :confused: At least the bolt pattern. ;) I stand corrected. :red: I guess I'm lucky in having the premium system. :beer: I see they are 8 ohms also. :confused: The premium systems lines tested at 4 ohms. :confused: There are only numbers on the back of my speakers M1EGS, M1EGL, and 22711516. No where near as much as they put on the back of yours. :eek: It looks like the wire colors may be the same as my 2LT though. That should be your passenger side rear correct? :confused:

See my post above yours...

It's not that I didn't trust you. I don't trust a stereo sales place. Just like any other buisness, there are some places that will tack on things you don't need just to drive up the price. But I'm sure you made a wise choice on where to bring it. I say do it yourself and save the money if you can. Why pay someone to do something you can do? If there is something I think I can't do or I need some equipment I don't have, then I take it to a place I trust. Like I'm not about to rebuild my own transmission because I have never really worked on one. It's out of my area of expertise. Same way as I'm not about to try realigning my HHR because I don't have an alignment machine.

"Why pay someone to do something you can do?"

Well...it all boiled down to "time" for me. I didn't have the time to mess with it (being something new), and figured I'd pay someone else to do it fast. It worked!

I was only out $20 for the install anyway. :thumb:

"Why pay someone to do something you can do?"

Well...it all boiled down to "time" for me. I didn't have the time to mess with it (being something new), and figured I'd pay someone else to do it fast. It worked!

I was only out $20 for the install anyway. :thumb:

Not bad what so ever. I guess that's kind of why I get my oil changed at the dealership. For the $10 they charge me it's not worth the time or effort to do it myself. ;) Considering that I'm going to spend at least as much on oil and a filter to do it myself. :roll:

I have the 2LT with the premium sound package. Crutchfield says that the car has factory 6 3/4 speakers. Can I use my old Rockford speakers (4 ohm) with the factory radio until the adapter kit is out? Would it help the sound?

I have a Pioneer M80P that puts out 60 watts per channel from the internal amp. Prior I used a 5 channel external amp. but the reviews all said that the internal amp is great so I believe I will try that with a good amp just for the sub.

I have the 2LT with the premium sound package. Crutchfield says that the car has factory 6 3/4 speakers. Can I use my old Rockford speakers (4 ohm) with the factory radio until the adapter kit is out? Would it help the sound?

You would want to check out these two threads:
http://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=399
http://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=687
I have the same system and just swapped my speakers. Just putting in a nice set of speakers helps the sound a great deal. The factory "premium" speakers are paper cone crap! :mad:

Lee, you can easily do that. The Pioneer internal MOSFET 50x4 amps are really great sounding.
I will be powering all my door speakers with my DEH-P8600MP's internal amp and running a 300-watt Pioneer for the subs in back:

http://www.socalhhr.citymax.com/i/Hidden%20Pics/Sub_Amp_sm.jpg

2 Audiobahn 10's in a bandpass box:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/2178000-2178999/2178189_17_full.jpg

Pretty much the same thing you are proposing...

uh SoCal...thats a 240watt amp...

-wC

You would want to check out these two threads:
http://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=399
http://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=687
I have the same system and just swapped my speakers. Just putting in a nice set of speakers helps the sound a great deal. The factory "premium" speakers are paper cone crap! :mad:

I see you calling them paper cone crap a lot...not trying to be an ass, but a lot of speakers cones use some sort of treated paper cone...even uber-high end speakers use treated paper cones...they are pretty durable if designed correctly (and pretty lightweight as compared to other materials).

I do agree though, most stock speakers use untreated paper cones that can rip just by poking them :)

The P80MP will do about 23w/channel RMS IIRC.

I always recommend externally amping speakers if you plan on adding substage in a car...with moderate power your substage can drain out your front stage, plus, most radio's internal amplifiers will clip/distort at moderately high volumes- but they are a nice step up over just about every stock system :)

uh SoCal...thats a 240watt amp...

-wC

Yeah, but it puts out 300-watts at 2-ohms in mono...and that's how it'll be running. :cool:

:retreats back to corner with tail between his legs:

-wC

The P80MP will do about 23w/channel RMS IIRC.

True from a spec standpoint, but from my own real-life testing, Pioneer heads put out excellent sound quality at moderate volumes. I own a recording studio and am very critical about listening. My 8600 head has 24-bit Burr Brown DAC's and it sounds amazing. Long live Pioneer! :thumb:

I see you calling them paper cone crap a lot...not trying to be an ass, but a lot of speakers cones use some sort of treated paper cone...even uber-high end speakers use treated paper cones...they are pretty durable if designed correctly (and pretty lightweight as compared to other materials).

I do agree though, most stock speakers use untreated paper cones that can rip just by poking them :)

I know, the sub I am about to put in uses treated paper cone with dual aluminum voice coils. Treated paper subs sound the best in my opinion. ;) The factory speakers are crap though. Wait untill you pull yours out. :D

True from a spec standpoint, but from my own real-life testing, Pioneer heads put out excellent sound quality at moderate volumes. I own a recording studio and am very critical about listening. My 8600 head has 24-bit Burr Brown DAC's and it sounds amazing. Long live Pioneer! :thumb:

I will back you up on that...I love Pioneer head units...in my last car(a Scion xB) I had it installed without upgrading the speakers and a lot of people would come up when I was blasting music asking what kind of system I had in there...

the looks on their faces :eek: when I said stock speakers and just a head unit

-wC

True from a spec standpoint, but from my own real-life testing, Pioneer heads put out excellent sound quality at moderate volumes. I own a recording studio and am very critical about listening. My 8600 head has 24-bit Burr Brown DAC's and it sounds amazing. Long live Pioneer! :thumb:

The 8600 was IMO the best radio Pioneer has released in the last few years (save the P9 combo).

The only unit I like from the 2005 line was the P8MP, and I'm not even that big of a fan of that radio.

Their 06 line looks nice, however :)

Yes, I agree. Having a 13-band EQ, Auto EQ with RTA (mic included), and Auto Time Alignment with a delay for all speakers to reach the driver listening position at the precise time is great! One thing I can count on in my car is a great sweet spot! :thumb:

well let me say this...I had my first order from Crutchfield(I ordered the brackets) and I recieved them in less than 18 hours and I chose standard shipping...Crutchfield will prolly get my business again...

-wC

I added some 4x6s to my back doors by tracing the old bracket on so a piece of masonite.I used the top factory hole for the top screw and I used a self tapping hex screw to hold the bottom.I turned the bass to them all the way up and didnt hear any rattling so its seems to be all good.
http://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/files/4/1/3/DSC00532.JPG

I think the factory 6 1/2" probably are better than a 4"x6". :confused:

well let me say this...I had my first order from Crutchfield(I ordered the brackets) and I recieved them in less than 18 hours and I chose standard shipping...Crutchfield will prolly get my business again...

-wC


There's no other company like Crutchfield. They are fast and extremely helpful.

I think the factory 6 1/2" probably are better than a 4"x6". :confused:
nah the 4x6s are way louder..

I was just thinking of the difference in size because you put a smaller speaker in. :)

I installed one and opened up both back doors and could here the 4x6 side alot clearer than the 6.5.I still plan on putting something else in but I had the 4x6s so I figured I would use them..

They must be better quality than the 6 3/4's you tried. Side by side, the bigger the speaker, the bigger the cone and magnet so the more power it can handle and the better the sound. (Provided they have the same sensitivity.)

I have experimented with audio since the early 70's. I remember the early Sanyo bi-amps, and the 'top' of the time Jensen coaxials. In fact, I had the first separtes sold-Jensen 6x9 woofer, 5 1/4 mid, and small tweeter. And I had one of the first amps sold-an IDI 40 watt that mounted in the glove box. Nice and loud distortion.

They are Clarion 2-ways.I guess the tweeter on top is what makes it louder.

Actually, a tweeter on top makes it more muffled because it partially blocks the woofer-that is the theory behind having separate speakers. But, since low frequency sounds are non directional, it is not too noticible. High frequency is very directional, so the tweeters are best mounted in line with your ears (which is why the HHR has them on the front pillar). Some coaxials allow the tweeter to be aimed in the best direction.

If your speakers sound louder, it is due to their efficiency measured in sensitivity Db (decipals). The higher the number, the less power they waste so the louder they sound.

I don't know about you, but I sometimes mistake better sounding speakers with "louder". I think the clarity of a better speaker will often translate as sounding louder. If I can hear the sound better, it must be louder, right. Or so your brain thinks anyway...

None of it makes any sense to me. I just turn it up until the rear view mirror is hard to see out of. :D

They must be better quality than the 6 3/4's you tried. Side by side, the bigger the speaker, the bigger the cone and magnet so the more power it can handle and the better the sound. (Provided they have the same sensitivity.)

I have experimented with audio since the early 70's. I remember the early Sanyo bi-amps, and the 'top' of the time Jensen coaxials. In fact, I had the first separtes sold-Jensen 6x9 woofer, 5 1/4 mid, and small tweeter. And I had one of the first amps sold-an IDI 40 watt that mounted in the glove box. Nice and loud distortion.
Cone size and magnet size have nothing to do with mechanical power handling- and thermal power handling, given the same VC gap between drivers. Power handling is determined in 2 ways- thermally, and mechanically. Thermally is just that- how much power the VC can thermally handle- which can be manipulated by VC winding height, number of windings, cooling system (vent poles, basket cooling, top plate cooling, etc.), and other methods. Mechanical is how much power the soft parts of the woofer can mechanically tolerate before it fails.

Bigger magnet doesn't mean much if it isn't applied properly. I can run 3 9" diameter slugs for a 1200oz magnet, and oversaturate the crap out of the speaker and accomplish nothing- look at the Cerwin Vega Stroker- perfect example- it is one of the most accaimed woofers in car audio, and has a relatively small motor structure.

Also, more power does not always equal out to better sound. Alignment will always play the biggest role in sound/roll off freq/etc. I can throw a speaker in the door off axis and feed it 200w and get better sound from something with half the power, but has a QTS that is more suited for IB use/on axis response...:)

If I replace the stock fronts with infinity 5.25 will I notice a difference?I have the component set but I lost the crossovers but I'd like to atleast mount the 5.25.

In your LS...probably yes.
Do you still have the stock head unit?
If so, that thing suffers seriously.
Try cranking both the bass & treble controls full up.
This will improve the sound approximately 1-degree. ;)

In your LS...probably yes.
Do you still have the stock head unit?
If so, that thing suffers seriously.
Try cranking both the bass & treble controls full up.
This will improve the sound approximately 1-degree. ;)
Yep, still have the stock head.I do have the treble all the way up but not the bass usually.It ends up being to much bass for my sub then I can't hear anything.I think I will switch them and just turn the amp down a bit so I get some bass from the mids..

That might help you out some.

Cone size and magnet size have nothing to do with mechanical power handling- and thermal power handling, given the same VC gap between drivers. Power handling is determined in 2 ways- thermally, and mechanically. Thermally is just that- how much power the VC can thermally handle- which can be manipulated by VC winding height, number of windings, cooling system (vent poles, basket cooling, top plate cooling, etc.), and other methods. Mechanical is how much power the soft parts of the woofer can mechanically tolerate before it fails.

Bigger magnet doesn't mean much if it isn't applied properly. I can run 3 9" diameter slugs for a 1200oz magnet, and oversaturate the crap out of the speaker and accomplish nothing- look at the Cerwin Vega Stroker- perfect example- it is one of the most accaimed woofers in car audio, and has a relatively small motor structure.

Also, more power does not always equal out to better sound. Alignment will always play the biggest role in sound/roll off freq/etc. I can throw a speaker in the door off axis and feed it 200w and get better sound from something with half the power, but has a QTS that is more suited for IB use/on axis response...:)

Well....if you want to get technical... ;)

I just meant what I said as a basic rule of thumb. I am sure that there are many cheap speakers that try to look powerful by using a big low quality magnet and other components.

Well....if you want to get technical... ;)

I just meant what I said as a basic rule of thumb. I am sure that there are many cheap speakers that try to look powerful by using a big low quality magnet and other components.

You can generalize- after all, most aftermarket speakers have much larger slugs on the motor, and in general, an aftermarket speaker will sound better then a stock speaker.

Also, a big thing I forgot about- Neo motors...they are extremely small in size, but much much stronger then standard ceramic motors :)

I put in my Rockford Fosgates that I had in my last car-they are 4 ohm, so more resistance than the stocks, so not as loud but MUCH better quality. Am eagerly awaiting the GM Lan adapter so I can throw in my Pioneer MP 80.

I put in my Rockford Fosgates that I had in my last car-they are 4 ohm, so more resistance than the stocks, so not as loud but MUCH better quality. Am eagerly awaiting the GM Lan adapter so I can throw in my Pioneer MP 80.
resistance can be offset by efficiency :)

I won't get into that, because it's not a 100% valid point..I just like being difficult :)