LawDog88

hahahahahaha!!!

donbrew

The thing to remember at least in VA, is the 11 MPH rule. The traffic courts give you 8 MPH "speedo error", except school zones and that 80 MPH thing. I set my CC at 9 MPH above posted on the Interstate. The troopers are really looking for over 19 MPH (5 points), locals are a little touchier.

The last time I sat in traffic court the judge announced that if you were charged with more than 8 MPH over you are guilty and 20 MPH over was at least one weekend in the pokey. But he forgave 2 MPH for every year of "safe driving", my 70 in a 55 was fined for only 6 MPH over; unfortunately the DMV does not care what you are fined for only what you are charged with, still got the 5 points but a large discount on the fine.

Don't I remember that the 80 MPH reckless driving is a federal mandate left over from the Jimmy Carter 55 MPH max? Maybe my memory is wrong.

ThatChevy

I usually set my cruise control for 5 mph over the posted limit. Every once in a while I'll set it for 10 over, but I don't do that too often. The troopers here are usually looking for those doing over 80 mph.

As far as the 80 mph reckless driving being a federal mandate someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that's the case anymore. I know in Tennessee reckless driving is 6 points on your license, which would be speeding in excess of 36+ mph over the posted speed limit. Since our speed limit on rural interstates is 70 mph that would mean you'd have to be doing at least 106 mph to be hit with a reckless driving charge.

843de

As written and passed, the legislation that brought us the dreaded "Double Nickel" speed limit, did not include any provisions for a Federally mandated standard pertaining to Reckless Driving.

Now for some history, seeing as we have a good number of members who were not even born during the days of the 55 mph speed limit.

The Emergency Highway Energy Conservation Act was a bill in the U.S. Congress that enacted the National Maximum Speed Law. States had to agree to the limit if they desired to receive federal funding for highway repair.

The uniform speed limit was signed into law by President Nixon on January 2, 1974, and became effective 60 days later, by requiring the limit as a condition of each state receiving highway funds, under a use of the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution.

The legislation required 55 mph (90 km/h) speed limits on all four-lane divided highways unless the road had a lower limit before November 1, 1973. In some cases, like the New York Thruway, the 50 mph (80 km/h) speed limit had to be raised to comply with the law. The law capped speed limits at 55 mph (90 km/h) on all other roads.

A survey by the Associated Press found that, as of Wednesday, January 2, 1974:

12 states already had maximum speed limits of 55 mph (90 km/h).

Nine states had maximum speed limits of 50 mph (80 km/h).

29 states had to lower limits.

This includes some states that voluntarily lowered their limits in advance of the federal requirement.

In the April 2, 1987, Surface Transportation and Uniform Relocation Assistance Act, Congress permitted states to raise speed limits to 65 mph (105 km/h) on rural Interstate highways.

In a bill that passed in mid-December 1987, Congress allowed certain non-Interstate rural roads built to Interstate standards to have the higher speed limits.

As of December 29, 1987, the states of California, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, and Oklahoma had applied for and been accepted into this program. The program was originally slated to last four years.

Congress lifted all federal speed limit controls in the November 28, 1995, National Highway Designation Act, returning all speed limit determination authority to the states effective December 8, 1995.

Several states immediately reverted to already existing laws. For example, most Texas rural limits that were above 55 mph (90 km/h) in 1974 immediately reverted to 70 mph (115 km/h), causing some legal confusion before the new signs were posted.

Montana reverted to non-numerical speed limits on most rural highways, although its legislature adopted 75 mph (120 km/h) as a limit in 1999.

Hawaii was the last state to raise its speed limit when, in response to public outcry after an experiment with traffic enforcement cameras in 2002, it raised the maximum speed limit on parts of Interstates H-1 and H-3 to 60 mph (95 km/h).

And thus ended another "Social Experiment" along the lines of Prohibition, with even lower compliance rates than seen during the period of the Eighteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which went into effect in 1920, and was repealed in 1933, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment.

As to the issue of "Reckless Driving" in relation to exceeding the speed limits in a particular state, the determination of what constitutes Reckless Driving is left up the to individual state's criminal code and jurisdictional variations.

In some states like Virginia, North Carolina, New York, New Jersey, and Georgia to cite a few, there are hard and fast rules. X mph over the limit will result in a criminal charge of Reckless Driving, usually a Class 3 Misdemeanor with fines capped at approximately $1,000 plus 30-90 days in jail.

In other states, the determination of a Reckless Driving charge is left up to the court.

Now aren't y'all glad that your Admin guy is a lawyer too?

ThatChevy

Thanks for writing up that post Mike. It definitely had a lot of good information in it.

I remember reading about Montana's non-numerical speed limit prior to 1999. A typical speed limit sign would say reasonable and prudent during the day and trucks and at night was 65 mph in most parts of the state.

It was in March of 1996 that a man named Rudy Stanko was pulled over in his 1996 Chevy Camaro and issued a speeding ticket for going 85 mph. The driver was convicted even though the officer that pulled him over gave no opinion as to what would be considered a reasonable and prudent speed. The driver then appealed to the Montana Supreme Court and in December of 1998 it reversed the conviction in his case.

They stated that a law requiring drivers to drive at a non-numerical "reasonable and proper speed is so vague that it violates the Due Process Clause of the Montana Constitution."

As a result of that decision the Montana Legislature passed a new law enacting a speed limit of 75 mph in June of 1999.

I also know Illinois amended their laws regarding speeding this year. If you're now caught speeding 26-34 mph over the speed limit, it's a class B misdemeanor offense as stated in section 11-601.5(a) of the vehicle code. Prior to the change drivers didn't have to worry about a misdemeanor charge unless they were doing 30 mph or more over the limit.

The new law also states that drivers charged with a class B misdemeanor are not eligible for court supervision. Instead the court is required to impose a permanent conviction which can result in a suspended driver's license or even worse up to 180 days in county jail and up to a $1,500 fine for the misdemeanor charge.

donbrew

I think what I was kind of remembering was that in New Mexico when they lowered the limit to 55, they did not adjust the fine structure. That made 56-80 in a 55 a $10 fine or some such since the laws were written for 75, but over 80 got you a big one. The feds made them change the fine structure.

But then, circa 1980 a lawyer got a radar ticket in Albuquerque and challenged the accuracy of radar. The judge set up a test in the U of NM stadium parking lot; the stadium was clocked at 75 MPH. It took some time for that to get sorted out.

843de

Here are a couple of notable cases we studied in Law School...

State of Florida v. Aquilera (1979)

This infamous case is known widely as the Miami Radar Trial. After a local television reporter showed a house clocked at 28 mph and a palm tree clocked at 86 mph, the story broke nationwide and radar was quickly shown to be less than accurate. In this case the Dade County Court sustained a motion to suppress the results of radar units in 80 speeding ticket cases. The court's opinion stated that the reliability of radar speed measuring devices as used in their present modes and particularly in some cases, has not been established beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt, nor has it met the test of reasonable scientific certainty.

United States v. Fields (1982)

The District Court in Ohio ruled that it was not possible to establish from the radar results whether the defendant was traveling at 43 mph or whether the Speedgun 8 radar unit was measuring the rotation of the ventilation fan at the sewage pumping station next to the officer's car. The court also found that the officer was not qualified to operate the radar unit since he did not know the requirements for correct operation of the unit. In addition, the officer did not calibrate it before use, on that occasion.

Unfortunately, early radar guns were notoriously inaccurate unless calibrated daily with a known reference.

Plus, they were responsible for the deaths of law enforcement personnel due to inadequate shielding causing testicular, pelvic, and bone cancer to occur after prolonged exposure.

The new "Instant On" radar guns don't require that they remain on at all times in order to produce reliable readings. The older guns were not capable of producing accurate readings until warmed up, so officers would sit for hours with the radar guns in their laps, exposing them to high doses of microwave radiation.

Even though we as driving enthusiasts play "cat and mouse" with speed traps, and we may feel that the speed limits are too low in given areas, the police are there to protect us. So if you're pulled over, treat the officer with respect and cooperate fully, you may find that you get "written" for a lower speed. And if the stars are truly aligned for you, you'll get off with a warning.

P.S. thanks for your info on Montana and Illinois ThatChevy, very interesting reading, I'll file it away for future reference.

Grizzly old man

When I was a police officer back in northwest Wisconsin in the early '70's we got a spiffy new radar gun. In the box was a tuning fork. You used the tuning fork to calibrate the radar gun.

It was fun pointing the thing at inanimate objects like buildings and getting different speed readings.

The bank in town had several motion detectors in it and you could get different speeds at the various doors on the building.

I could understand the motion detectors giving us different readings on the radar gun, that made some sense, but the school building had no such devices yet you could almost always clock it at right around 65 mph. Always wondered what the gun was clocking.

The three speed heater fan in the squad car read 45 on low 59 on medium and around 95 on high.

The windshield wipers were two speed and low was around 11 mph and around 35 on high.

I always wondered what reading we would have gotten if we had had intermittent {delay} wipers.

843de

You clocked the heater fan, that's priceless!

ThatChevy

^ Agreed. That is pretty funny. Also no problem Mike. Thank you for posting those cases regarding radar. I'll be keeping that information for future reference as well.