*Service Airbag* light keeps coming on
03-10-2009, 04:11 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-09-2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 105
the key thing tho, im still massively conserned about is that a safety device should be shielded against and above all anything else that may happen in the vehicle... its the equivalent of your seatbelt failing because your wearing a blue button down shirt with kahki shorts while sporting sandals wearing socks
if such an insignificant device can have such an impact, imagine what a more important device may have, such as a portable oxygen breathing apparatus for the disabled, or a business person is transporting clients and one of them uses a laptop
a LOT of people ive mentioned this to blames the light itself, and say that its possible that its overloading the system... if that was the case shouldnt the fuse blow? a power adapter port should be able to handle and successfully operate anything less than the available amperage of the fuse... safety devices should be shielded against EMI... for instance.. what if you were driving in road construction and there were workers welding? welding is a HUGE form of EMI that broadcasts a huge noise footprint through a large spectrum of frequencies... should welders stop working because theres someone driving their vehicle with passenger side air bags? would be highly doubtfull
i think GM really messed up on this as 12v powered automotive accessories have been on the market for decades now... technology is further advancing and i just so have happened to discover a flaw in a safety feature that is regulated by law and is deemed required on all new vehicles. i am going to contact GM about this and since this little flaw may have a crucial impact on someones life, demand that it be taken care of if nothing less than issuing a recall
the only problem with a recall is that there needs to be a significant amount of consumers that have experienced the same problems... so ANYONE out there that has/is using 12V power accessories using the center console 12V power port, test your equipment with and without passengers, especially things like navigation devices, cell phone chargers, and laptops, if any group of those cause problems, since the industry offers these to a wide spectrum of consumers, then GM must address a fix... make them work for the money and reconcile getting rid of 1000's of workers
if such an insignificant device can have such an impact, imagine what a more important device may have, such as a portable oxygen breathing apparatus for the disabled, or a business person is transporting clients and one of them uses a laptop
a LOT of people ive mentioned this to blames the light itself, and say that its possible that its overloading the system... if that was the case shouldnt the fuse blow? a power adapter port should be able to handle and successfully operate anything less than the available amperage of the fuse... safety devices should be shielded against EMI... for instance.. what if you were driving in road construction and there were workers welding? welding is a HUGE form of EMI that broadcasts a huge noise footprint through a large spectrum of frequencies... should welders stop working because theres someone driving their vehicle with passenger side air bags? would be highly doubtfull
i think GM really messed up on this as 12v powered automotive accessories have been on the market for decades now... technology is further advancing and i just so have happened to discover a flaw in a safety feature that is regulated by law and is deemed required on all new vehicles. i am going to contact GM about this and since this little flaw may have a crucial impact on someones life, demand that it be taken care of if nothing less than issuing a recall
the only problem with a recall is that there needs to be a significant amount of consumers that have experienced the same problems... so ANYONE out there that has/is using 12V power accessories using the center console 12V power port, test your equipment with and without passengers, especially things like navigation devices, cell phone chargers, and laptops, if any group of those cause problems, since the industry offers these to a wide spectrum of consumers, then GM must address a fix... make them work for the money and reconcile getting rid of 1000's of workers
03-10-2009, 05:01 PM
#14
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Join Date: 10-24-2006
Location: The Show-Me State
Posts: 1,761
MindDrive, not all 12v devices give off harmful interference. It is NOT the responsibility of the auto manufacturer to test every single device that could be a source of interference with the vehicle's safety systems. The SIR system and other components ARE shielded from interference from outside RFI sources. However, as any electrical engineer will tell you, IT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLETELY SHIELD A DEVICE FROM RFI INDUCED FROM ANOTHER DEVICE CONNECTED TO THE SAME POWER SOURCE.
This is why GM tells you in the owner's manual NOT to use any electrical devices that interfere with the safety systems of the vehicle. It is impossible for GM to guard against all poorly designed accessories. GM is required by law to test the vehicle for RFI coming from outside sources and they do that using a high-powered transmitter that sweeps across a spectrum of frequencies aimed at the vehicle, but it is impossible to account for every device that may be connected to the vehicle's electrical system.
This is why GM tells you in the owner's manual NOT to use any electrical devices that interfere with the safety systems of the vehicle. It is impossible for GM to guard against all poorly designed accessories. GM is required by law to test the vehicle for RFI coming from outside sources and they do that using a high-powered transmitter that sweeps across a spectrum of frequencies aimed at the vehicle, but it is impossible to account for every device that may be connected to the vehicle's electrical system.
03-10-2009, 05:12 PM
#15
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Join Date: 11-23-2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,210
Mind drive, what hhrcrafty is stating is true on the possibility of the air bag deploying because of your issue. It won't. Once a trouble light/message comes on the system is disabled.
I work at a dealership and we see hundreds of cars each month with everything in the world plugged into the accessory sockets. I have one guy that comes in with a diesel truck that has no less than 5 accessories running out of one receptacle. Talk about looking like the Griswalds Christmas. But very few had the same problems as what you are having with this light. The light needs to be trashed. Interference is not the same as overloading a system until a fuse blows. The problem is your light not the system.
Also I wear glasses when I drive and I hope to hell my airbag deploys if it is needed. I will take cuts and scratches on my face if the alternative is death.
I work at a dealership and we see hundreds of cars each month with everything in the world plugged into the accessory sockets. I have one guy that comes in with a diesel truck that has no less than 5 accessories running out of one receptacle. Talk about looking like the Griswalds Christmas. But very few had the same problems as what you are having with this light. The light needs to be trashed. Interference is not the same as overloading a system until a fuse blows. The problem is your light not the system.
Also I wear glasses when I drive and I hope to hell my airbag deploys if it is needed. I will take cuts and scratches on my face if the alternative is death.
03-10-2009, 05:53 PM
#16
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Join Date: 12-24-2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 717
MindDriver - IMHO, you're misdirecting your attention.
It is the Plasma Lamp manufacturer/supplier you should be directing your attention to. The amount of radiation these lamps emit is well known. Every well-equipped science classroom had them when I was growing up. The powerful ones can make your hair stand up on end. We had a lot of fun with them! Why does this manufacturer/supplier not have a “caution” statement in their literature concerning this radiation? Ask them!
Vehicles of the past only used coils(relays & solenoids), lamps(incandescent) and those almighty noisy spark plugs to interfere with the radio reception. Remember condensers, distributors and spark plugs before resistors? AND things have gotten worse with the use of computers.
The question should be: “How much radiation should a vehicle be required to accept and mitigate to keep the safety features on the vehicle working properly?” The obvious answer (to me) is somewhere between the faint background radiation of an incandescent lamp and the EM pulse of a nuclear explosion. Just where to draw the line? Obviously anything manufactured into the vehicle should not cause un-mitigatable interference. Likewise any “commonly” used device in society should be engineered for – these lamps are not common.
I love these lamps - I just got mine out of storage. Thanks for the memories. It is already smelling up the place like a laser copier or printer does. Must be why some copy machine rooms now require exhaust fans when so designated in the building design stage. Ozone.
It is the Plasma Lamp manufacturer/supplier you should be directing your attention to. The amount of radiation these lamps emit is well known. Every well-equipped science classroom had them when I was growing up. The powerful ones can make your hair stand up on end. We had a lot of fun with them! Why does this manufacturer/supplier not have a “caution” statement in their literature concerning this radiation? Ask them!
Vehicles of the past only used coils(relays & solenoids), lamps(incandescent) and those almighty noisy spark plugs to interfere with the radio reception. Remember condensers, distributors and spark plugs before resistors? AND things have gotten worse with the use of computers.
The question should be: “How much radiation should a vehicle be required to accept and mitigate to keep the safety features on the vehicle working properly?” The obvious answer (to me) is somewhere between the faint background radiation of an incandescent lamp and the EM pulse of a nuclear explosion. Just where to draw the line? Obviously anything manufactured into the vehicle should not cause un-mitigatable interference. Likewise any “commonly” used device in society should be engineered for – these lamps are not common.
I love these lamps - I just got mine out of storage. Thanks for the memories. It is already smelling up the place like a laser copier or printer does. Must be why some copy machine rooms now require exhaust fans when so designated in the building design stage. Ozone.
04-20-2009, 09:01 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-09-2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 105
Well, I quit using the aftermarket lights and all has been quiet in terms of the "SERVICE AIR BAG" DIC message and the passenger air bag light problem, but yesterday the same old bug came back.
Several times through out the night it would come on/off and back again and today when taking the vehicle in to see what the problem is this time, again it went on and off like 5 times on the way to the dealership.
This time there is a new code that come up that makes reference to the signal that tells the air bag to deploy in the event of an impact.
Not good ~_~
Several times through out the night it would come on/off and back again and today when taking the vehicle in to see what the problem is this time, again it went on and off like 5 times on the way to the dealership.
This time there is a new code that come up that makes reference to the signal that tells the air bag to deploy in the event of an impact.
Not good ~_~
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-09-2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 105
OK so i get the vehicle back, and this time, they replaced several modules, AND THEN found that a wire was not properly inserted into a harness plug up inside the dash (i do beleive this was mentioned earlier as something to look for ^^^^^)
ANYWAY, knock on wood, its been almost 2K miles and no problems, with or without the plasma light, which got me to thinking.....
the plasma light is a high voltage inverted power source basicly throwing an arc across a gas to produce light... same thing the back light of an LCD screen does in most GPS receivers, except the voltage in a screen is much much higher... which if this problem continues, means that i can not use any form of LCD GPS on my dashboard, BUT everything is working as it should as far as i can tell
one problem with onstar though, this last time i took it in for service, ONSTAR did finally detect a problem while it was happening while i was connected to them, but i have YET to receive any and i mean ANY form of communication from them saying that there may be something wrong with my vehicle. I even asked them to send the email notification saying that there was a problem, which i never received. when i finally did receive notification via email, it said everything was all good :S
****looks for the location of the onstar unit to rip the worthless POS out**** hehehheheh
ps, a lil laugh....
this last time i brought the vehicle in, the salesman that sold it to me asked how everything was going, and i replied "nothing short of what a little thermite could fix at this point"... dont get me wrong hes a good guy, but MAN a freeking plug loose ~_~
anyway, this is so far a closed service and hopefully it doesnt happen again :)
ANYWAY, knock on wood, its been almost 2K miles and no problems, with or without the plasma light, which got me to thinking.....
the plasma light is a high voltage inverted power source basicly throwing an arc across a gas to produce light... same thing the back light of an LCD screen does in most GPS receivers, except the voltage in a screen is much much higher... which if this problem continues, means that i can not use any form of LCD GPS on my dashboard, BUT everything is working as it should as far as i can tell
one problem with onstar though, this last time i took it in for service, ONSTAR did finally detect a problem while it was happening while i was connected to them, but i have YET to receive any and i mean ANY form of communication from them saying that there may be something wrong with my vehicle. I even asked them to send the email notification saying that there was a problem, which i never received. when i finally did receive notification via email, it said everything was all good :S
****looks for the location of the onstar unit to rip the worthless POS out**** hehehheheh
ps, a lil laugh....
this last time i brought the vehicle in, the salesman that sold it to me asked how everything was going, and i replied "nothing short of what a little thermite could fix at this point"... dont get me wrong hes a good guy, but MAN a freeking plug loose ~_~
anyway, this is so far a closed service and hopefully it doesnt happen again :)
05-09-2009, 08:58 PM
#19
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Join Date: 12-24-2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 717
Would be interested in just what modules the dealer replaced?
That loose wire could have been acting like an antenna and channeling all that Plasma device generated noise into the vehicles wiring. AND then there was the Plasma Globe's power supply routed directly into the vehicles wiring as well.
As far as future LCD or flat screen display use in your vehicle. I use both a Laptop computer and a GPS with no known interference or troubles, both are low power and low noise devices when compared to that Plasma Globe.
That loose wire could have been acting like an antenna and channeling all that Plasma device generated noise into the vehicles wiring. AND then there was the Plasma Globe's power supply routed directly into the vehicles wiring as well.
As far as future LCD or flat screen display use in your vehicle. I use both a Laptop computer and a GPS with no known interference or troubles, both are low power and low noise devices when compared to that Plasma Globe.
05-10-2009, 12:38 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-09-2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 105
"Would be interested in just what modules the dealer replaced?"
got a stack of papers-- ill post eventually
im more interrested to find out what WIRE was loose and how something so remedial made it past QC... musta been made on a friday just before quitting time
reason im so quite upset about this whole ordeal is i install custom multi-media/security computers into vehicles (the equivalent of a permanent laptop but a LOT more flexible and upgradeable) and i use several touch screen monitors which do emit quite a bit of noise much like the plasma ball but a little higher up the frequency range which usually only messes up AM and some FM radio stations due to the USB touch screen interface frequencies, and if something as insignificant as a 4KV plasma bulb causes the airbags to malfunction, imagine the interference an 8" touch screen, 2 - 22" touch screens, GPS receiver, broadband wi-fi connection, RF wireless keyboard n mouse, several video cameras, and about 19 speakers powered by 5-6 thousand watts of audio equipment will make all in the same vehicle....
which brings me back to the whole reason i bought the vehicle was to customize, but not if what im going to do may or may not save my life in the event of an air bag failure. the plasma ball doesnt effect my seville STS, my moms HHR, my girlfriends pontiac gtp or any other vehicle ive put it in which was one of the primary reasons i got bent out of shape which seems to have been resolved by any number of combinations of all the equipment that was replaced and the discovery of a loose wire ~_~
anyway... all is *knocks on wood again* well --- 2500 more miles to go before the lemon law runs out
got a stack of papers-- ill post eventually
im more interrested to find out what WIRE was loose and how something so remedial made it past QC... musta been made on a friday just before quitting time
reason im so quite upset about this whole ordeal is i install custom multi-media/security computers into vehicles (the equivalent of a permanent laptop but a LOT more flexible and upgradeable) and i use several touch screen monitors which do emit quite a bit of noise much like the plasma ball but a little higher up the frequency range which usually only messes up AM and some FM radio stations due to the USB touch screen interface frequencies, and if something as insignificant as a 4KV plasma bulb causes the airbags to malfunction, imagine the interference an 8" touch screen, 2 - 22" touch screens, GPS receiver, broadband wi-fi connection, RF wireless keyboard n mouse, several video cameras, and about 19 speakers powered by 5-6 thousand watts of audio equipment will make all in the same vehicle....
which brings me back to the whole reason i bought the vehicle was to customize, but not if what im going to do may or may not save my life in the event of an air bag failure. the plasma ball doesnt effect my seville STS, my moms HHR, my girlfriends pontiac gtp or any other vehicle ive put it in which was one of the primary reasons i got bent out of shape which seems to have been resolved by any number of combinations of all the equipment that was replaced and the discovery of a loose wire ~_~
anyway... all is *knocks on wood again* well --- 2500 more miles to go before the lemon law runs out
Last edited by MindDrive; 05-13-2009 at 01:45 PM.