Temp guage flat and Coolant Temp "---"
02-16-2009, 11:19 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-02-2005
Location: VA
Posts: 1,245
The thermostat problem is fairly common. It will stick open and engine won't come up to full operating temp.
To avoid the dealer, if you have an auto parts place nearby, see if they can scan for DTCs. Autozone will do it quickly and free around here.
The common code for a stuck open stat is P0128.
To avoid the dealer, if you have an auto parts place nearby, see if they can scan for DTCs. Autozone will do it quickly and free around here.
The common code for a stuck open stat is P0128.
02-17-2009, 03:03 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-31-2007
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 6
The verdict is..... Thermostat.
Not sure if I'll get warranty coverage or not. The service manager was in a hurry on the phone - "It's ready. Come get it. Bye." (OK not that bad..) I'll post an update after I pick it up tonight.
Not sure if I'll get warranty coverage or not. The service manager was in a hurry on the phone - "It's ready. Come get it. Bye." (OK not that bad..) I'll post an update after I pick it up tonight.
02-17-2009, 03:40 PM
#15
Founding Member
Join Date: 11-23-2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,210
Covered by the powertrain warranty. No charge.
02-17-2009, 05:55 PM
#16
Member
Join Date: 12-12-2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 48
I had the same thing happen to me back in November. Luckily, I was able to take it to the garage I used to work at (no BS). We replaced the thermostat with an AC Delco which listed for $68 dollars (I miss the $10 Mr. Gasket option). The 'broken' thermostat had visible damage to the rubber seal (not sure of the correct terminology) and wonder why this would fail in 3 years. If I'm not mistaken, the published time for the job was 2-3 hours. On a side note, when we ran the codes, we noticed that under WOT, the computer dissengages the a/c compressor.
05-16-2009, 01:20 AM
#18
New Member
Join Date: 05-24-2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 23
Thanks to this group I was able to quickly diagnose the wifes 02 2.4 LT that had the very same symptoms. Our regular sevice rep was on vacation at the dealer and I did not get a good vibe regarding "under warranty" from the other rep so I bought a stat from the dealer for a $10 more than NAPA and changed it myself. Not too bad of a project. Worst part was the factory hose clamps. Must need a special tool that I do not have, so I cut them off and replaced with typical hose clamps. One of the front OEM hose clamps was weeping a few months back and I had to replace it with a normal clamp. Not a fan of the factory hose clamps. The pictures clearly show the defective stat vs the new stat.
07-09-2009, 08:10 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-01-2008
Location: Windsor, Ca
Posts: 991
Thanks, guys...love this site. Couple reasons:
1)I will NOT ever go to a dealer for repairs(especially since my warranty was up a LONG time ago)
2)I dont panic when the car acts up *until* I search, find, read, and understand the cause of the mis-behavior
3)although it seems odd, sometimes the car's behavior, while unconventional, and often going against everything we've known about how cars work, chances are someone, somewhere, has encountered the same problem, and has posted about it.
4)some users are kind enough to take the time to explain, and post pictures of the job/repair.
I am no ASE licensed mechanic, but I do all my own work. I spend my afternoons at my brother-in-law's auto shop learning, teaching, helping, watching, and showing how cars/trucks get fixed.
remote-started the car this morning as I do every morning. Walked outside 2 minutes later, and left for work. 10 minutes later, noticed the temp gauge was flat-lined. I had no CEL light, and the car was behaving normally. I turned on the climate control to HEAT and did not notice the air temp being way too hot(typical of a car that would be on the verge of over-heating). Drove the 62 miles to work(57 degrees outside), logged in to this site, and found this thread. I'll drive it back home (to my brother-in-law's shop actually) after work, and he'll have a T-stat waiting for me. I'm just glad it fails OPEN, and not CLOSED.
BTW, 2006 HHR 2LT 2.4 automatic, just rolled 81k miles last night. Not too pleased a T-stat would fail at this mileage. had the cooling system flushed before I bought it at 32k miles. Glad it failed OPEN, but not happy about it failing at all. T-stats are not a common failing item on modern cars. My 4.6 DOHC all aluminum 32v V8 Ford motor had 181k miles on it, and never had a T-stat issue. I replaced it with a colder T-stat when I did a 'tune' on it, but considering the way Ford isolated the housing, makes me wonder if that helped it NOT fail.
are you folks draining the entire cooling system, and replacing the coolant with dex-cool? Or just using anti-freeze with the proper dilution ratio? I abhor dex-cool. dont trust it. seen too many part failures through the years, hence the class-action suit.
1)I will NOT ever go to a dealer for repairs(especially since my warranty was up a LONG time ago)
2)I dont panic when the car acts up *until* I search, find, read, and understand the cause of the mis-behavior
3)although it seems odd, sometimes the car's behavior, while unconventional, and often going against everything we've known about how cars work, chances are someone, somewhere, has encountered the same problem, and has posted about it.
4)some users are kind enough to take the time to explain, and post pictures of the job/repair.
I am no ASE licensed mechanic, but I do all my own work. I spend my afternoons at my brother-in-law's auto shop learning, teaching, helping, watching, and showing how cars/trucks get fixed.
remote-started the car this morning as I do every morning. Walked outside 2 minutes later, and left for work. 10 minutes later, noticed the temp gauge was flat-lined. I had no CEL light, and the car was behaving normally. I turned on the climate control to HEAT and did not notice the air temp being way too hot(typical of a car that would be on the verge of over-heating). Drove the 62 miles to work(57 degrees outside), logged in to this site, and found this thread. I'll drive it back home (to my brother-in-law's shop actually) after work, and he'll have a T-stat waiting for me. I'm just glad it fails OPEN, and not CLOSED.
BTW, 2006 HHR 2LT 2.4 automatic, just rolled 81k miles last night. Not too pleased a T-stat would fail at this mileage. had the cooling system flushed before I bought it at 32k miles. Glad it failed OPEN, but not happy about it failing at all. T-stats are not a common failing item on modern cars. My 4.6 DOHC all aluminum 32v V8 Ford motor had 181k miles on it, and never had a T-stat issue. I replaced it with a colder T-stat when I did a 'tune' on it, but considering the way Ford isolated the housing, makes me wonder if that helped it NOT fail.
are you folks draining the entire cooling system, and replacing the coolant with dex-cool? Or just using anti-freeze with the proper dilution ratio? I abhor dex-cool. dont trust it. seen too many part failures through the years, hence the class-action suit.
Last edited by Smoke Wagon; 07-09-2009 at 10:08 AM.
07-10-2009, 08:32 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-01-2008
Location: Windsor, Ca
Posts: 991
UPDATE!!!
First, and what upsets me most is how much a dealer charges to do this repair. It is almost robbery.
This repair is easier than changing a flat tire, and if you have 1 gallon of coolant, a 10mm socket and a long extension, you can do this on the side of the road in 10 minutes. Seriously.
I opened the hood, located the thermostat housing, and removed the radiator hose fill-cap. System was hot, so it did over-flow a little(use caution)
I then opened the pit-c0ck on the LOWER passenger corner of the radiator, and drained the coolant.
Then I used a 10mm socket on a 18" long 1/4" drive ratchet, and removed both thermostat housing bolts. Lift up the housing, and there's the FAILED thermostat.
remove old T-stat, set new one on, and replace the housing.
close the pit-c0ck, and pour in about 1/2 gal. of antifreeze (to your own mix ratio/ingredients of choice)
start engine, and turn the climate control on HOT, and open the vents, select VENT, and fan speed to high
let run until inside air temps are HOT to the touch, and continue to top off coolant through fill cap at upper hose. It has to burp. The fill over-flow to indicated capacity.
I pulled the car in to the bay at 4:45pm, and backed the car out at 5:05pm, most of the time was spent waiting for the radiator to drain. I wanted as much dex-junk out of the system.
My thermostat failed exactly like the pictures above. The internal o-ring had deteriorated, most likely due to dex-cool.
Hope this helps someone down the road. I know people go to the dealer because their cars are under warranty. But to think they charge $350+ for a job that takes less than 15 minutes(even less time for someone with air tools, a lift, and who has done more than one before).
I paid $32.00 for the stock replacement thermostat at NAPA
I used 1.2 gallons of coolant
I spent maybe 20 minutes in total
The code has to be cleared with a scanner. That took 1 minute.
I know the dealer charges 200% mark up on the thermostat. Their cost is about $31 from GM. But where the other $300 charges come from is amazing. To me, it's actually boderline criminal to charge labor that was never spent on the car, regardless of what the 'book' calls for.
if the book says 3 hours, and they do it in 30 minutes, doesn't it seem like stealing, regardless of what you signed?
oh well. as long as people keep filling the dealership's pockets, they will continue to charge their prices. Maybe the warranty repairs are part of what GM ended up broke for.
Good luck folks. In the future, if someone reads this, and wants help, email me.
smokewagonhhr at aol.com
I am MORE than happy to help you, or your friend, or even your neighborhood repair facility.
First, and what upsets me most is how much a dealer charges to do this repair. It is almost robbery.
This repair is easier than changing a flat tire, and if you have 1 gallon of coolant, a 10mm socket and a long extension, you can do this on the side of the road in 10 minutes. Seriously.
I opened the hood, located the thermostat housing, and removed the radiator hose fill-cap. System was hot, so it did over-flow a little(use caution)
I then opened the pit-c0ck on the LOWER passenger corner of the radiator, and drained the coolant.
Then I used a 10mm socket on a 18" long 1/4" drive ratchet, and removed both thermostat housing bolts. Lift up the housing, and there's the FAILED thermostat.
remove old T-stat, set new one on, and replace the housing.
close the pit-c0ck, and pour in about 1/2 gal. of antifreeze (to your own mix ratio/ingredients of choice)
start engine, and turn the climate control on HOT, and open the vents, select VENT, and fan speed to high
let run until inside air temps are HOT to the touch, and continue to top off coolant through fill cap at upper hose. It has to burp. The fill over-flow to indicated capacity.
I pulled the car in to the bay at 4:45pm, and backed the car out at 5:05pm, most of the time was spent waiting for the radiator to drain. I wanted as much dex-junk out of the system.
My thermostat failed exactly like the pictures above. The internal o-ring had deteriorated, most likely due to dex-cool.
Hope this helps someone down the road. I know people go to the dealer because their cars are under warranty. But to think they charge $350+ for a job that takes less than 15 minutes(even less time for someone with air tools, a lift, and who has done more than one before).
I paid $32.00 for the stock replacement thermostat at NAPA
I used 1.2 gallons of coolant
I spent maybe 20 minutes in total
The code has to be cleared with a scanner. That took 1 minute.
I know the dealer charges 200% mark up on the thermostat. Their cost is about $31 from GM. But where the other $300 charges come from is amazing. To me, it's actually boderline criminal to charge labor that was never spent on the car, regardless of what the 'book' calls for.
if the book says 3 hours, and they do it in 30 minutes, doesn't it seem like stealing, regardless of what you signed?
oh well. as long as people keep filling the dealership's pockets, they will continue to charge their prices. Maybe the warranty repairs are part of what GM ended up broke for.
Good luck folks. In the future, if someone reads this, and wants help, email me.
smokewagonhhr at aol.com
I am MORE than happy to help you, or your friend, or even your neighborhood repair facility.