Negative camber-new lca-toe out
04-29-2017, 10:13 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-29-2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7
Negative camber-new lca-toe out
2007 HHR lt 2.2l 160,000 miles<br />roughly a year ago, on a rainy day, hit a median almost straight on but was angled so that only driver's side hit. Hit it relatively hard but noticed no affect to the handling. So I ignored it.
6 months later had to veer off the road to avoid collision and broke passenger LCA. Had it replaced and was on the road with no problems.
gradually the car got really squirrelly at 50-65 mph, and the brakes (all of which had been done within that year)were squealing and howling but only at certain rates of deceleration<br />I needed new tires so I got 4 new tires, and all the old ones were evenly worn. The tire shop, somehow, stripped a stud on the rear and as I pulled out it tore up the drum brake. So it had to be rebuilt.
Within 3 months(4,000ish miles) the drivers side tire was so worn on the inside that metal fibers were protruding, so i change the LCA and get a new tire( which reduced the shaking at high speeds). the old LCA was slightly askew and I figured that was the cause of my negative camber.next day Went to get an alignment and the technician showed me that an alignment wasn't necessary and that my passenger LCA needed replacement. Seemed odd since I just had it done months before and definitely hadn't hit a curb since.. So yesterday I change the passenger LCA(the old one was severely bent), and now my steering wheel won't sit straight and when I straighten it the drivers side is straight but the passenger is toe out, severely.
My questions are:
Why was the passenger LCA so severely bent?(I theorize my mechanic got an LCA from the pick and pull and did the alignment)
Why are my brakes yelling at me when they have 80% or more pad left(it's not the glaze)
Why is my passenger wheel toe out after New LCA?
also I noticed that the front bolts of the LCA on the passenger side sit up higher than on the driver side, which looks normal from all the pictures I've seen.
I apologise for the difficult read. Thank you
6 months later had to veer off the road to avoid collision and broke passenger LCA. Had it replaced and was on the road with no problems.
gradually the car got really squirrelly at 50-65 mph, and the brakes (all of which had been done within that year)were squealing and howling but only at certain rates of deceleration<br />I needed new tires so I got 4 new tires, and all the old ones were evenly worn. The tire shop, somehow, stripped a stud on the rear and as I pulled out it tore up the drum brake. So it had to be rebuilt.
Within 3 months(4,000ish miles) the drivers side tire was so worn on the inside that metal fibers were protruding, so i change the LCA and get a new tire( which reduced the shaking at high speeds). the old LCA was slightly askew and I figured that was the cause of my negative camber.next day Went to get an alignment and the technician showed me that an alignment wasn't necessary and that my passenger LCA needed replacement. Seemed odd since I just had it done months before and definitely hadn't hit a curb since.. So yesterday I change the passenger LCA(the old one was severely bent), and now my steering wheel won't sit straight and when I straighten it the drivers side is straight but the passenger is toe out, severely.
My questions are:
Why was the passenger LCA so severely bent?(I theorize my mechanic got an LCA from the pick and pull and did the alignment)
Why are my brakes yelling at me when they have 80% or more pad left(it's not the glaze)
Why is my passenger wheel toe out after New LCA?
also I noticed that the front bolts of the LCA on the passenger side sit up higher than on the driver side, which looks normal from all the pictures I've seen.
I apologise for the difficult read. Thank you
Last edited by donbrew; 05-02-2017 at 09:41 AM. Reason: inserted breaks
04-29-2017, 03:43 PM
#2
Platinum Member
Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
Welcome to the forum. However, please only post once - posting the same info elsewhere will just get it deleted. If you have problems finding your posts, just click on your name in the upper right corner and select "MY POSTS".
Yes your post is a difficult read - but I don't think we can help you from what I was able to get from your post.
You say you have had 3 (three) lower control arms replaced, have hit a median, gone off road damaging the suspension, tires now wearing excessively badly, steering wheel now sits crooked, an to top it off very noisy brakes.
Really, you need to take it to a reputable shop, or I'd suggest a Chevy dealer, and have an expert so a survey of the undercarriage, suspension and brakes. If you theorize that your mechanic used a bent used lower control arm, you need to make better choices in mechanics.
Yes your post is a difficult read - but I don't think we can help you from what I was able to get from your post.
You say you have had 3 (three) lower control arms replaced, have hit a median, gone off road damaging the suspension, tires now wearing excessively badly, steering wheel now sits crooked, an to top it off very noisy brakes.
Really, you need to take it to a reputable shop, or I'd suggest a Chevy dealer, and have an expert so a survey of the undercarriage, suspension and brakes. If you theorize that your mechanic used a bent used lower control arm, you need to make better choices in mechanics.
04-29-2017, 06:00 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-29-2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7
My apologies, I thought one was a public thread and the other a post to an individual page that others could view.
I appreciate the advice, although the "reputable mechanic" route is a 50/50 chance of quality. And I'm trying to learn some things so I can avoid the high cost of GM shops and other mechanics trying to make a quick buck.
I was able to align it myself, after passenger side was toe out roughly 10°. I'm somewhat ignorant but what I gather is that a bent control arm was installed, by a Midas style chain shop, and aligned to compensate. Which I would gather would explain the shaking and brake noise due to uneven pressure on the pads. Just curious if I'm reading things right, and again am sorry for my ignorance in the etiquette here
Thank you for you response.
I appreciate the advice, although the "reputable mechanic" route is a 50/50 chance of quality. And I'm trying to learn some things so I can avoid the high cost of GM shops and other mechanics trying to make a quick buck.
I was able to align it myself, after passenger side was toe out roughly 10°. I'm somewhat ignorant but what I gather is that a bent control arm was installed, by a Midas style chain shop, and aligned to compensate. Which I would gather would explain the shaking and brake noise due to uneven pressure on the pads. Just curious if I'm reading things right, and again am sorry for my ignorance in the etiquette here
Thank you for you response.
04-30-2017, 01:42 AM
#5
Platinum Member
Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
x2 what Oldblue states - add to that list possible damage to the unibody mounts for the lower control arms etc., upper strut mounts, struts themselves.
Any off-road excursions resulting in a broken lower control arm likely has caused further damage other than just the lower control arm.
You really need to take it to a reputable shop - I suspect there is hidden damage that you will not be able to spot on your own - and you say you have the issue with the front bolts on the passengers LCA sitting higher than on the drivers side. That alone indicates a serious problem, that you are not likely to fix on your own.
Any off-road excursions resulting in a broken lower control arm likely has caused further damage other than just the lower control arm.
You really need to take it to a reputable shop - I suspect there is hidden damage that you will not be able to spot on your own - and you say you have the issue with the front bolts on the passengers LCA sitting higher than on the drivers side. That alone indicates a serious problem, that you are not likely to fix on your own.
04-30-2017, 08:15 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-16-2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,408
x2 what Oldblue states - add to that list possible damage to the unibody mounts for the lower control arms etc., upper strut mounts, struts themselves.
Any off-road excursions resulting in a broken lower control arm likely has caused further damage other than just the lower control arm.
You really need to take it to a reputable shop - I suspect there is hidden damage that you will not be able to spot on your own - and you say you have the issue with the front bolts on the passengers LCA sitting higher than on the drivers side. That alone indicates a serious problem, that you are not likely to fix on your own.
Any off-road excursions resulting in a broken lower control arm likely has caused further damage other than just the lower control arm.
You really need to take it to a reputable shop - I suspect there is hidden damage that you will not be able to spot on your own - and you say you have the issue with the front bolts on the passengers LCA sitting higher than on the drivers side. That alone indicates a serious problem, that you are not likely to fix on your own.
04-30-2017, 05:10 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-29-2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7
The veering off-road wasnt so much off-road as in dirt but off-road into the curb. After lcas, tires, and alignment it handles better than ever.had it up to 100mph and rides smooth and no brake noise.
I saw some pictures, and peaked under an HHR at the grocery, and the bolts are positioned the same as mine.
What is the recommendation on who to take it to for that kind of inspection?
I saw some pictures, and peaked under an HHR at the grocery, and the bolts are positioned the same as mine.
What is the recommendation on who to take it to for that kind of inspection?
05-01-2017, 02:40 PM
#9
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,692
Well, I can't read the OP, but.. I did once install new control arms that did indeed cause a change in the TOE.
The only adjustment that can be made on an HHR front end is toe; unless a camber kit has been installed. A camber kit will give about 2 degrees adjustment, it is an eccentric bolt that replaces one of the strut to knuckle bolts.
If am alignment was done with bad parts you need to re align after you install new parts. If you have cast LCAs I don't believe they could have been bent. The caster is controlled by the body/frame as is the camber (from the factory). Bumping curbs can bend the tie rods or the rack. Changing the toe does affect the camber, so in theory if the toe is right the camber should be also.
I don't trust the Yard stick method.
The only adjustment that can be made on an HHR front end is toe; unless a camber kit has been installed. A camber kit will give about 2 degrees adjustment, it is an eccentric bolt that replaces one of the strut to knuckle bolts.
If am alignment was done with bad parts you need to re align after you install new parts. If you have cast LCAs I don't believe they could have been bent. The caster is controlled by the body/frame as is the camber (from the factory). Bumping curbs can bend the tie rods or the rack. Changing the toe does affect the camber, so in theory if the toe is right the camber should be also.
I don't trust the Yard stick method.
05-01-2017, 09:23 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-29-2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7
Thank you all for your responses.
Today I was traveling on the freeway and a flatbed semi with a backhoe on it had a rock fly off, bounce, and smash into my condenser/radiator/fan. The rock was so large, it barely fit.into the gap under the grill.
Tow truck arrived and we couldn't get out of park, I guess I left flashers running too long and drained battery.
If the condenser was smashed the lines will no longer be pressurized, correct?
Also, what can I do to check if my engine is shot? I would hate to put fan/radiator/condenser on to find out engine is blown.
I'm still hoping I'll wake up from the vehicular nightmare this last week has been.
Thank you
*Edit*
I just realized that it was probably stuck in park because of the radiator/ transaxle cooling damge. If so what kind of damage did that cause. Also, the was a rapid clicking from the fuse box whenever the key was engaged.
Today I was traveling on the freeway and a flatbed semi with a backhoe on it had a rock fly off, bounce, and smash into my condenser/radiator/fan. The rock was so large, it barely fit.into the gap under the grill.
Tow truck arrived and we couldn't get out of park, I guess I left flashers running too long and drained battery.
If the condenser was smashed the lines will no longer be pressurized, correct?
Also, what can I do to check if my engine is shot? I would hate to put fan/radiator/condenser on to find out engine is blown.
I'm still hoping I'll wake up from the vehicular nightmare this last week has been.
Thank you
*Edit*
I just realized that it was probably stuck in park because of the radiator/ transaxle cooling damge. If so what kind of damage did that cause. Also, the was a rapid clicking from the fuse box whenever the key was engaged.
Last edited by Jacob Willingham; 05-01-2017 at 10:19 PM.