'10 SS different from '08 and '09?
Senior Member
Joined: 11-15-2008
Posts: 1,599
From: Newburgh, NY
And if they can't follow proceedure to torch the connectors, what makes people think that a tech can be artful enough to hermetically seal a soldered connector, to use a the proper flux for the job (rosin or zinc chloride), and the proper heat transfer to fill the annular spaces between the strands? And the lower connections are difficult to reach as it is, what makes people think that the tech will have the patience to hold the soldering iron or gun onto the wire long enough to properly tin them? Do they perform a twisted splice then tinned, or contact splice after each wire end is tinned? Who knows what you'll get? Just like an improperly sealed connector, moisture will eventually infiltrate and corrosion will fester until the resistance of the connection rises. Again, if they can screw it up, they will. Either way, you have to be vigalent and don't think that one solution will be the cure-all over the other.
Senior Member
Joined: 10-04-2010
Posts: 724
From: Delaware
And if they can't follow proceedure to torch the connectors, what makes people think that a tech can be artful enough to hermetically seal a soldered connector, to use a the proper flux for the job (rosin or zinc chloride), and the proper heat transfer to fill the annular spaces between the strands? And the lower connections are difficult to reach as it is, what makes people think that the tech will have the patience to hold the soldering iron or gun onto the wire long enough to properly tin them? Do they perform a twisted splice then tinned, or contact splice after each wire end is tinned? Who knows what you'll get? Just like an improperly sealed connector, moisture will eventually infiltrate and corrosion will fester until the resistance of the connection rises. Again, if they can screw it up, they will. Either way, you have to be vigalent and don't think that one solution will be the cure-all over the other.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 192
From: Northern Virginia
wow............. you got way too technical with your post & it sounds like you're way too paranoid about having a certified GM tech work on your car. i'd fully trust a GM tech to soder wires. it's not difficult. you make it sound like rocket surgery or brain science! (yes i mixed them up on purpose) i've done work with car audio and i've sodered wires together, it's not hard at all to do. the reason you have a GM tech do the work is so that if something happens, guess who you get to blame and get fixed? THE GM TECH!!!! but that's for all the people on here that care about having that warranty. me personally, i do my own work or have some close friends who are certified techs work on my vehicle. the only time i ever take advantage of the warranty if it's something extremely expensive or mechancially way out of my league.
I work for NASA at Goddard Space Flight Center building propulsion systems and am certified in may technical things including soldering. No, for reals:
http://mms.gsfc.nasa.gov/spacecraft_assembly/propulsion/propulsion_03.html
Most people will use rosin core solder from Radio Shack (just ask them for liquid flux and watch the faces) and twist the wires then tape over them (or use wire nuts on a soldered connection, a big no no) which is not the proper way to do it. A lap splice with 30 gauge bus wrapped around the splice, liquid flux, and 30/70 solder should be used. Of course you want to tin the wire first. Stagger the splices then shrink wrap individually with UV safe wrap. OK, I could go on but no, I would not expect a GM Certified Tech(or most anyone else) to do this. Is proper soldering better? Most likely yes. Are the connectors included in the GMTU kit OK to use? Absolutely if installed properly. They must be staggered, crimped with the correct tool and shrunk properly and protected from heat as best as possible. You can wrap them in electrical tape because it looks nice but I do not recommend this because moisture can get trapped inside and lead to issues. Just my 2.5 cents.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 07-01-2010
Posts: 284
From: Denver, CO
87 Silver and Victory Red SS, I COMPLETELY agree with both of you. I also work in aerospace, and am not solder certified (but know the specs well). I understand soldering because I have had to QA a lot of it, and most of it is crap. As for soldering not being rocket science, and just because you can get two wires to stick together and work in a stereo, the low current and tiny changes in resistence being measured by the sensors means any problem with the connection will cause the computer to go into limp mode. This is rocket science, and GM totally screwed up by saving a couple of quarters on the Stage 1 kit by not making these plug and play. Expecting GM techs in the field to perform low resistance soldering is rediculous.
Thus my interest in taking a different approach, and not one the either relies on a by-the-book-price worker to do soldering (remember, the faster they do a job the more they make per hour, so the incentive is to do the absolutely fastest job whether it is good or not) or relies on someone with a laptop and a software application that allows infinite messing about with the parameters. I want a safe, canned solution to add some torque - not the maximum possible, and not something that throws codes and makes the car perform worse. If the Cortex works on a 2010, I will probably try it. If not, I may stick with stock.
Thus my interest in taking a different approach, and not one the either relies on a by-the-book-price worker to do soldering (remember, the faster they do a job the more they make per hour, so the incentive is to do the absolutely fastest job whether it is good or not) or relies on someone with a laptop and a software application that allows infinite messing about with the parameters. I want a safe, canned solution to add some torque - not the maximum possible, and not something that throws codes and makes the car perform worse. If the Cortex works on a 2010, I will probably try it. If not, I may stick with stock.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-16-2011
Posts: 149
From: florida
re
"This is rocket science, and GM totally screwed up by saving a couple of quarters on the Stage 1 kit by not making these plug and play. Expecting GM techs in the field to perform low resistance soldering is rediculous."
this is the most important part of the last 3 post
this is the most important part of the last 3 post
Senior Member
Joined: 11-15-2008
Posts: 1,599
From: Newburgh, NY
87 Silver and Victory Red SS, I COMPLETELY agree with both of you. I also work in aerospace, and am not solder certified (but know the specs well). I understand soldering because I have had to QA a lot of it, and most of it is crap. As for soldering not being rocket science, and just because you can get two wires to stick together and work in a stereo, the low current and tiny changes in resistence being measured by the sensors means any problem with the connection will cause the computer to go into limp mode. This is rocket science, and GM totally screwed up by saving a couple of quarters on the Stage 1 kit by not making these plug and play. Expecting GM techs in the field to perform low resistance soldering is rediculous.
Thus my interest in taking a different approach, and not one the either relies on a by-the-book-price worker to do soldering (remember, the faster they do a job the more they make per hour, so the incentive is to do the absolutely fastest job whether it is good or not) or relies on someone with a laptop and a software application that allows infinite messing about with the parameters. I want a safe, canned solution to add some torque - not the maximum possible, and not something that throws codes and makes the car perform worse. If the Cortex works on a 2010, I will probably try it. If not, I may stick with stock.
Thus my interest in taking a different approach, and not one the either relies on a by-the-book-price worker to do soldering (remember, the faster they do a job the more they make per hour, so the incentive is to do the absolutely fastest job whether it is good or not) or relies on someone with a laptop and a software application that allows infinite messing about with the parameters. I want a safe, canned solution to add some torque - not the maximum possible, and not something that throws codes and makes the car perform worse. If the Cortex works on a 2010, I will probably try it. If not, I may stick with stock.
I interviewed the installers and monitored the installation of my General Motors Performance Parts Turbo Upgrade Kit. At the time, the car had around 7000 miles. This was dating back to June of 2009. I now have 29,000 miles on the car and have not had even a hint of an issue in 2 years and 22k miles. Strict PROCEEDURE, not casual PERCEPTION is the key to success.
Platinum Member
Joined: 05-09-2006
Posts: 6,805
From: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Bravo to you 87silver.
As you, I have never had a failure when complying with specific directions, especially from GM.
And, I currently have a thread, on another forum, about a GM Accessory Part that I recently installed. I was told by many that I would regret the install and would have a multitude of problems. THEY were absolutely wrong.
However, following explicit directions is NOT something a lot of people do.....they all know better. And because they have changed the oil, installed new plugs or air filter....they become credentialed as a "competent" mechanic/technician.
As you, I have never had a failure when complying with specific directions, especially from GM.
And, I currently have a thread, on another forum, about a GM Accessory Part that I recently installed. I was told by many that I would regret the install and would have a multitude of problems. THEY were absolutely wrong.
However, following explicit directions is NOT something a lot of people do.....they all know better. And because they have changed the oil, installed new plugs or air filter....they become credentialed as a "competent" mechanic/technician.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 07-01-2010
Posts: 284
From: Denver, CO
A
I'm with Snoopy, 87 Silver. I have been aerospace QA and Process Engineerin,g and am currently a Systems Engineer in Engineering Excellence for Corporate, developing business process software systems. So, as one Process Geek to another, I say 