It's threads like this that drive me nuts - misinformation!

The comment about having to replace rotors when installing new pads - now the comment about rotors not being turnable - sorry but I gotta call bull @$&?.

Rant on me if you wish but you are totally wrong. Perhaps I should open up a business selling caliper rebuild parts and come here stating that one must rebuild the calipers with each pad change?

And the comment about making sure the rotors are skimmed if you change pads...... Man o man, where do you come up with this stuff? That makes as much sense as draining and discarding your gas if you will up with a different brand of gas. Sure you can do it but will anyone see any difference? Nope.

 

It is recomended by most Auto and Brake MFG to change or refinish rotors before installing.

In the past some rotor were recomended to be trued with a light cut before install. I have seen the notes in the box stating so. I do not see these as much anymore.

Yes you can often get away with out the cut or change just as not changing an oil filter. But if you do this it removes some possibilities of a future issue.

There are a lot of things that need to be done that few mechanics or home mechanics should do. How many check bearing run out or bed the brakes properly?

I recomend EBC Red or Hawk. Anymore these are the only pads I use and they work great. THey are an improvment on any OE pad.

As for rotors anymore I just get a stock set of Bendix rotors and don't even cut them anymore. My cost on them is so cheap that it is a no brainer to change them. As mfor the holes and slots I stopped using them as they were just a lof of money for nothing that did not improved anything.

As for cutting rotors they not only recomend cutting but even how they are cut. Some will recomend a cross hatch pattern few do and even on many Hondas they want them cut on the car as this is the only way they will true up.

THere is much more to brakes than changing pads. In many cases it can vary from car to car.

I wonder how many here don't remove the calipers correctly. On the new ABS cars most recomend to open the bleeders and not use a c clamp to push them in with the system closed anymore. It could mess with the ABS system.

It used to be much simpler but todays systems are much more sensitive and need in some cases special car or you could create an issue. Note I said could.

I can remember in training how often it was stated even on drum brakes that you should replace the hardware on every change. Few of us do and most of us used the drop test on the spings but that is what is recomended.

The one thing I was taught was no matter how well your car runs it is worthless if it can stop.

 

This is essentially what I do, too. Rotors are cheap enough that it's no biggie. Pads do leave deposits on rotors, and there is less clearance to turn them than there used to be. It's possible, but it's a hassle. So why even bother?

You need good pads and fresh fluid for good performance, too. Even less people flush their brake fluid than change rotors. Being able to stop IS kinda important...

 

Misinformation? I know I haven't spread any misinformation. For brake pads to work at their peak they need to be used on fresh rotors or rotors that were used with the same pad compound. This is "common" knowledge and best practice among all true professional techs, brake pad makers, high performance brake users,(race teams and other severe duty vehicle)
As I stated before, brakes don't work purely by squeezing, or friction from the mechanical force applied to the rotor&pad interface. A very important part of the braking function is "chemical" so to speak, or the way the brake pads "grab" the material already depostied on the rotor. If its the same material when they interact it works great, its like free extra friction. If its different you can get chattering/squealing and reduced brake effectiveness. If its different it also affects the way new material deposits on therotor. It won't leave a smooth even deposit, it will be streaky and blotchy, like mixing two dissimilar items (oil, water, etc...) this uneven deposition of material causes thickness variation in the rotor. It is this thickness variation that most people feel when they experience brake pulsation. And it is this thickness variation that is so often misdiagnosed as lateral runout (LRO) on most modern card with floating calipers (not LNF brembos) LRO is rarely felt as the caliper just slides on its pins and no difference in hydraulic operation is made so no pedal pulsation is felt, however if the rotor has excessive buildup in some areas and not enough in others this thickness variation WILL cause a noticeable feel in the pedal as the piston is pushed back into caliper at the thick spots and then extends at the thin spots. Its rarely visible to the eye as anything other than a "stain" or "smudge" on the rotor but this thickness variation of even 15/10,000ths it so is readily felt by most people at high wheel speeds.

Its not like mixing gas in the tank, its more akin to spraying different types of paint without surface prep.

 

To the OP: I went from stock rotors/pads to a set of R1 slotted rotors and Hawk HPS pads all around along with new brake fluid. After bedding the pads in, I now have the braking power I used to have when the car was new. The original front rotors/pads went south at 20K, replacement set of OEM rotors with ceramic pads gave me pulsations within 8-10K miles. So far I love this setup as there's no fade.

Later
Allex

 

basically its like this
ones who understand different pad compounds, bedding designs on rotors LISTEN to these people
to people saying no its bull crap etc......stay away from those people


I love Hawk HPS pads, but honestly the brembo setup is amazing and ill stick to it

 

I've been running the HPS for over 3 years on multiple vehicles. My favorite all around pad, I've got brembos in the wings for the Cobalt though :)

 

im on my original front and rear rotors.....original rear pads....3rd set of front pads......no rotors have ever been turned....90,650 miles...pads were changed right at every 45k up front both times....zero problems other than brake fade under hard use

 

I have done a couple of pad only replacements on good rotors but I always scuff them up good with some 150 grit and clean them completely with brake cleaner. At least by scuffing them you take the outside glaze off.

That said, I hated the ceramic pads on my Envoy. Low dust, but horrible brake feel and stopping power. I still had 60% pad left but I could not engage the ABS in a panic stop. They were gentle on the rotors though, so gentle that they actually rusted under the pad contact area and caused pedal vibration! I replaced them with some good quality semi-metalics and will gladly take the dust in exchange for 100% better performance.

 

BINGO!!! Now that was what I was waiting for, and expecting someone to come up with. That, followed up with a proper bedding-in procedure will restore the performance needed, and is suitable for the do-it-yourselfer.

Sure, the manufacturers, and shops will recommend additional items such as replacing the rotors, or resurfacing them, but some will also recommend replacement calipers (especially brake shops). The objective there is to reduce call-backs which are expensive for them. One shop up here years ago also replaced brake lines as part of their routine brake work - they no longer do that I hear, but they lost a lot of business once their "scam" hit the local car enthusiast community.

It's all a matter of how far one wants to take it, and how deep your pockets are.