Dumping our SUV going back to a minivan
 

We are thinking of getting out of our Buick Rainier with all its luxury and wonderful V8. It just has so little utilitarian value to me, that I yearn for my minivan days of old!:lol: :wtf:

We get 16-21 REAL MPG from this Trailblazer on steroids. The V8 pushes its six thousand pounds just fine with its AWD. So it is not as bad on gas as it should be.
But...

I constantly am frustrated by NOT having enough space for stuff and for work materials ( cases of books, real long mounted panoramic photos, etc ), moving a bike ( I could get a bike rack, I know ), moving funriture and more. All these things I did just fine with our old GMC Safari AWD and prior to that the Plymouth grand Voyager.

I thought we could get by with the SUV, but after two years, I am frustrated too often. To us SUVs are neither fish nor fowl , not econobox commuter cars ( Or even a cool compromise like the HHR ), nor a big enough people and goods hauler.
Still it is a great car for what it does, but exactly what is does is not produce the wider utility use I really seem to value. Ah well, live and learn...

Speaking of learning, Whan researching these mini vans ( Our last purchase of one was in 1998, so we are a little out of the loop ), I found the domestic market to be pretty much kaput except for Chrysler.

GMC and Chevy stopped making any minivans with real room in them. The Uplander is almost a crossover vehicle since it is so small. Heck, I may as well coin a name here, I'll call it a CROSSDRESSER vehile!:lol:

Ford/Mercury gave up minivans. Buick has the overpriced, ergonomically challenged, way to small Terraza. Etc. These domestics have left the building in this arena. They are counting on consumers to flock to the crossovers. I do like the Arcadia and Enclave, but they are to small for my purpose at hand.

Chrysler is trying and man is the new 08 Caravan line looking pretty decent!
For total weirdness check out this one:
http://www.cartv.com/content/shared/...le_id_int/2447
Looks like the inside of a retiree's camper!

For me the trouble with Chrysler begins and ends with their transmissions.
Well,Ok a lot of Chrylers also handle like wheelbarrows, but that's another thread!:lol:

We got our voyager with 30K miles on it and it needed another tranny at 70K. When relacing it, the dealer noticed it already had been replaced once! So we were on our third tranny at 70K!:eek:
At 85 K we needed still another tranny:wtf:

Sold it at 200K with that tranny......The guy who bought it needed two during its next 50K!. Plus he went through two more engines. So that one Voyager went through three engines and six trannies that I know of..........
So now the newer ones SHOULD be better, but I still see in forums a lot of folks on their second and third trannies with these Chryslers.:roll:
I do not trust them....

So all that said, I guess I will be an obediant American and buy a ferin' job. :red: :( You know a Toyota or a Honda ).
Don't want to, but for me , the field is empty except for these. Mazda, and Nissan need not apply. The Hyundai Entourage is interesting, but I'd wait as it is a dressed up Kia, and who knows what that really means.:lol:

Yes, they have problems also, but for some inexplicable reason, they have much better resale value, so we could bail and NOT lose our shirts like we will on the Buick ( and I LOVE BUICKS! ). Our Buick is LOADED with all the exras and extra-extras. Its inflated MRSP was 45K. Two and a half years later it has a retail of around 16K and a wholesale way below that. I'm glad we paid arounf thirty for it, but it is really not worth any more than a used trsailblazer, so paying for the extras did not pay off ( Remote starter, 3M tape protector, extended warentee out to 90K )

I've been doing a lot of internet research and going to dealers as well.
Since we now have a Katy , seven year old best-daughter-in-the-world ( You know the type ;) ) Safety is paramount, so I kinda likeall these airbage on the side and such. That is one reason we got the HHR , safety. Our SUV ( Somewhat Unsafe vehicle ) also has the extra airbags and decent crash tests.

The Toyo Sienna and Honda Odyssey rate right high with safety. The Hoda even has a rollover sensor which I belive deploys the airbags if it detects a rollover. Now that could be good OR bad, but I guess its on the right track in thinking safety.
A GREAT feature I like on these newer vans is the backup camera video feed coming through the nav screen! Way cool. Get this and I may not run over Rusy Kitty or crush a bike which as we know is the suburban auto rite of passage!

These fancy vans are asking for gobs'o cash too. :eek: Prices have , well, gone up since I last looked at minivans. But it is nice to see the trickle over effect of all this SUV luxury stuff going into the vans.:thumb: Some of it is even safety minded .

My favorite mini that I owned was the safari since it was AWD and NEVER really had any problems with handling. It did have that tranny problem too like the Chrysler, I changed it at 70K..............
Hmm, a theme here.....?

I will likely NOT be as demanding on the next mini as I have been on the past ones. I do a lot less conventioning these days. Loading up the car with a ton and a half of paper and fixtures definitly adds to the wear. I could move three tons in tow with my Buick if I wanted to tow a trailer full of stuff to a convention. That may be an idea...........hmmm..........

Lately for the few conventions I sell at, we rent a cube van, bring six droogies and two extra cars and go to town. I used to crowd four droogs and my self in the safari with all the stuff, But heck, if ya sell enough stuff you can by another tranny :lol:

But I digress...
So even though I have never purchased a non-domsetic labled car ( I did own a Vibe for a real shot time, traded it for the HHR ), I guess I have no choice in the minvan circle but to go "foreign".

Today I'm leaning Honda Odyessy, Yesterday Toyota Sienna. The Honda folks are holding one for us now........
Both cars have decent active forums with great folks and trolls ( Nothing changes , eh? ).

Just wondering what everyone's experiences are with minivans? I know some folks just dread them and fear some how it removes masculinity:roll: But in reality these cars are just serving a need like any other, so there's no need to be afraid...............

We had a 2001 Voyager that we gave to my Mom. Great to drive. Very reliable though we didn't have it but a couple years. MPG's killed it for us. My driver and getting 17 on a good day was killing us. It's the reason we got the HHR.

Good hunting.

Parents just got rid of a 2003 Town & Country and got a new 2006 Grand Caravan with Stow N Go last year. No problems with either and they love them both. The 2008's have the table option with swivel chairs but I don't believe you can get that and the Stow N Go together. The Hyundai Entourage is definately an interesting option and with the warranty might not be a bad choice! Good luck in your quest :thumb:

Yeah, the MPGs could be better on the current lineup of minivans. But they all have larger stronger engines than they had in their early days. My friend used to move stone in a shortbed chrysler mini with a four banger. It worked fine for him but was real slow and under powered for the job. He did blow the tranyy of course..........:roll:

I am thinking about the 2008 Chryslers, but still feel stung from the depreciation of my Buick. The New Chryler will go upside down on any loan I take out MUCH quicker than if I get a Foriegn job. Just the facts. I don't like them, but that is the fact.

Domestics devalue way too fast. How can we turn this around?

I don't like being upside down on a car because when the kid down the street totals your ride as they ram into it learning to drive:eek: , the insurance company will only pay you what the book says, and not what you owe......unless you pay more for the newer "Upside down loan insurance".

I suppose Chrylser has worked out its tranny problems by now..........they are packing a brand new six speed on the new ones if so ordered.

Remember, it's not a mini van, it's a man van :lol:

I've had my Ford Windstar for 9 years and it's served me well. I've hauled bags of rock, sand, and wood chips. I can fit a 4'x8' piece of lumber in the back with the seats down and back door closed. I brought home every new cabinet installed in my kitchen in this van. It also traveled well, even with two kayaks on top.

Now that it's aging quickly, the power windows and door locks are starting to fail, it needs new speakers, and the slider won't open from the outside. But, that engine sounds as good as the day I pulled it off the lot. And yes, I love how easy it is to get in and out of.

I still like my HHR better!

Out other ride is a Mazda MPV. We have put 105k on it and still running strong.

I myself would neverneverevereverEVER buy a minivan. I agree with the guys in that Burger King commercial when they dump that Voyager off the overpass. :thumb:

For your purposes, though ... if you're using it primarily for hauling cargo, and also need fuel efficiency, my thought would be to do some research on one more domestic van, the Dodge Sprinter. They do come passenger-capable (I've seen several around like this), are reasonable in safety, and additionally have probably the most fuel-efficient engine you can find in a van (5-cylinder diesel of Freightliner origin). Besides that, I kinda think they look a little cooler than the average minivan. :thumb:

Now Now, Desert Coyote, Mini vans are definitely anathema to you!:lol: I can understand, as I meet a lot of folks with those there thoughts:p:

Thanks for the link to the Dodge Sprinter. Cool van. If I were just doing cargo it would be a contender. The high roof version would be out as I do a lot of shows in hotels with low ceiling parking garages, but a regular version would work for business.
However we are driving people most of the time and the ability to move something larger is paramount. My previous mini vans were the real answer so that's why I'm looking at them again. A regular sized van is just to much car for daily use and a real bear for my wife to parallel park when she would use it.
For my purposes an SUV is simply not working out as they do not have the hight to accommodate a typical retailer display case, cannot fit in a few 8' wire racks, etc.
Which leads me back to the minivans which, thankfully I have no qualms driving. My testosterone is not threatened by a mini van, but it is constricted by an SUV = to much of a compromise vehicle for our needs.

A full sized van like the Dodge Sprinter would be cool for occasional use, but not practical for a daily driver. Also, diesels give me migraines like you wouldn't believe:roll:.
Diesel fuel and I just don't get along. I stopped managing a service station due to this. I could almost bath in gas ( and did a few times by accident :eek: ) , but diesel fumes make me into a quivering pile of senility.

That Dodge is a real cool vehicle though, seems like a better buy than some of those extended regular vans for hauling people comfortably.
I haven't seen the Burger King commercial you speak of, but it sounds funny!
In keeping with that theme, here ya go:

http://www.pbase.com/image/68168959.jpg

The Dodge Sprinter is actually just a rebadged (well, grill change) Mercedes, built in Germany. Engines are also Mercedes. Some special versions have some final assembly in a plant in SC. I think it was also marketed under the Freightliner (also owned by Mercedes) name.

It is, it's a bunch of guys changing the lyrics to "I Am Woman" to a song called "I Am Man" and complaining about "chick food." Some other stuff in the commercial is a line of guys ripping off tighty-whities from inside their pants and burning them, and a 78-year-old man pulling a dump truck with a chain (the dump truck, I might add, the Voyager winds up in when it gets pushed off the overpass!).

My wife has an 04 venture. we bought it used after driving the uplander. She loves it. We tested hondas and toyotas, but ended up with the chevy. the uplander is indeed alot smaller interior wise than the older venture. :thumb:
I only drive it when it has the trailer with ATVs on it :D

Just make sure to check under the oil cap on a regular basis and watch for coolant leaks. They are known for lower intake manifold gasket leaks.

If you start seeing white goop on the underside of the oil cap, you've got trouble brewing. Been there, done that, got the new gasket :lol:

That makes sense. It seemed a bit "different" and non-Chrysler.

This is likely its last year then since Chrysler is deMercedying. Or Rather The Germans have dumped Chrysler.

We use all of the domestics at work. The Uplander is nothing more than a Venture with a new front clip. Just look from the doors back, they are identical. Both were designed for European roads and they is why both are a little narrower than most others. You can get a standard and a extended length. But I just had an 2005 returned and the customer had put 90K on it and no issues with it. My Caravans and older Fords can't say that.

Honda is also having tranny issues. Toyota is having a bunch of recalls.

Mazda no longer makes a van, But the MPV was great for us. What's funny is it will also out run most SUV's and trucks on the road. Can't be manly in the mini van.......:lol: Keep thinking that as mama passes you and you can't keep up.....:nuts:

I found the Uplander just too small compared to the old Astro/Safari. Heck, they all are! Bring back the Safari!!! :lol:
I guess all manufacturers have problems within their vehicle ranks. Minivans in particular seem to garner transmission troubles.

Well, back to reality, I drove the Honda for a third time today and came away quite pleased. It may be time to say good by to my favorite Buick in years:red:
I feel sad, but for once in my life GM has no niche vehicle for me.............:(

I'll be staying with the HHR of course, and dreaming of a high performance one for some future day.:thumb: Also I really love the Enclave and Arcadia . Too small and too large at the same time!:D Same problem I have with the Rainier. Still nice cars though:bow:

We have an '05 Nissan Quest. I tried the Odyssey and the Sienna and preferred the Nissan. To us, it was more comfortable and just "felt" better than the others. I also got a bit more for the money.

Before that, we had a 95 Aerostar. That was a really great van, actually. It rode more like a truck, but for a 95 it was super nice.

My friend John had three Areostars. He just kept crashing them!:eek:
He used it for work so he never had any seats in it. After he crashed the third one he realized he had six bench seats in the back rooms of his stores!:lol:
One time he did not shut the rear gate correctly and all his stuf fell out on a route 93 on ramp in Boston during torrential rain. He delivered comic books and magazines, so it was not a good day since nothing survived the drop and assault from vehicles behind him.

I think he still has the seat collection though!:D Trophies and reminders of good times past................:lol:

Iron Man got a nother cousin 'cause, well, we bought the ODDITY! Our first ferin' car built by rednecks in North Carolina!:lol:

Even though this is an HHR forum, I'll post a pic or two later on . I'll make sure at least one pic has old Iron Man in it:lol:

One of the main COOL features that really made me go for it ( besides that it has a higher weight capacity than the other minivans we looked at ), is the integrated Nav/backup camera/voice command/entertainment/climate control central computer controlled brain. It may be a good idea to git the extended warranty. :lol:

Actually Hondacare ( the real deal ) with zero deductible/stem to stern with a few exception/ 120 K or eight years is available for $1,230.00. Not bad considering our Buick third party 90-K five year one cost $2,300.00.
Sold the Buick after two and a half years and are getting around $1,200..00 back. Just enough to buy the complete Hondacare package. We have a little while to purchase it too, it does not have to be at the time of purchase and remains at the same cost until 6-10K miles.

The back up camera has already saved the life of Rusty Kitty, so it was the right decision.:smile:

Did not go with the extended warranty on the HHR though. Just hoping all will be well with it:D

The two cars should compliment each other's duties well. And we finally broke free of the red curse! Our last three cars have all been red, but I never pick red, we just happen into the deals.
Well Little Katy picked out our new car from three at the dealer that were identical, Red, Light Blue and dark blue. She wanted something different than red too, so it was a nice light blue one we drove home!

It does have one really primitive STUPID bad design flaw, a passenger can leave an overhead light on and it will drain the battery dead! No rundown shutoff feature in this expensive top of the line minivan! It was almost a deal breaker as I had killed two batteries doing just such stunts myself in our old Safari. I have found this which may help, if it does not void the warranty:

http://www.prioritystart.com/

Oh, and I'm at home in the Ody forum, we all need these: It will seem familiar, same design choices as the HHR leaving AC condensers vulnerable:
I like the name:lol:

http://mrgrille.com/MrGrille-Honda-Oddyssey-Page.html

Congrats on the wheels! I've ridden in a couple of them and they were very nice plus that engine is rock solid and sips gas for a V6. If I'm not mistaken it is the same engine that is in my wife's 2004 Saturn Vue...98K trouble free miles so far :thumb:



Goose

Those were RWD and wider, but still shorter. I had an 89 Aerostar and picked that cause you could get it extended and a 5speed.:lol: But it's not fair to compare the RWD mini's to the FWD mini's. One was truck based and the other is car based.

Hope you like it, we had an Oddy before we got the MPV. The Oddy blew up. :eek:

I don't think Honda is sharing the Oddy motor with anyone. Seems when they do they only switch with Isuzu.

True enough on the comparisons between truck based and car based Minivans.
Still they both competed for the same market, it just depended which you needed to carry more of, people or stuff.

Heck our Buick Rainier could tow three tons ! It was on airbags too with Bilstines with an auto load/leveling system. What a truck! Too bad it was too small for a lot of my needs. So it was off to Ody land. Hope ours does not blow up:eek: :D
What went on yours, the engine or tranny or both? What year? A lot of tranny problems in the recent past ..hopefully they are gone in the current models.

Motor blew a crankshaft seal. Wifes was coming back from NC in Dec 03. She called me and said the oil light came one. This had never happened before, it was due an oil change when she got back. I told her to stop and check it, it took two qt's to bring it back up. :eek: SO she left again, within 10 miles she called me back up and said the light was on again. I told her to pull off and call her parents (she had left their house). She took the next exit and the motor stopped. WHen I got there to get her at her folks house, I followed the trail of oil all the way to the interstate, I could tell how long she was stopped at intersections....:roll: . ANd it still made it about 40 miles. Started it up, after I put 4 qts in it and you could hear it, spun bearing. I sold it as is and still got $2500 for it.:lol: You pay for a Honda, but you can usually get it back in the end, even dead.

It was the first gen model, a 95. Those motors usually run forever. The current models are having the tranny issues.

Yeah, the second gen had a lot of tranny issues, and the third gen had some. They just modded the tranny for the '07 ( Midrun third gen ), so we'll see what happens. Going for the extended warranty just in case. Plus the dealer added 12K to the factory warranty,which cannot hurt.

:thumb:

A quick pic of my favorite daughter ( OK, ONLY daughter )_ giving the new van her blessing. She did pick it out after all. She was getting bored of the last three red cars, so blue it is:lol:

http://www.pbase.com/harpozep/image/80200572.jpg

:lol:

Enjoy.