My feelings on the Wheel bearing Failure issue.
10-15-2012, 05:52 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
My feelings on the Wheel bearing Failure issue.
After reading all the threads on wheel bearing symptoms and noise problems I got to thinking the other day about what might be one of the contributing reasons that might be affecting some of these early failures.
Kinda like the issue of Warped Rotors and manually adjusting the rear brakes to slow the issue from appearing.
Does anybody have a feeling like I do that out of Balance wheel/tire assembly's could have a very stressful effect on the Hub/wheels bearings ?
Even just a mildly out of balance assembly creates a constant throbbing action on those vital parts.
As an example, think about this senario.
You put on a new set of tires and the dealer balances them for you.
The 2 fronts end up each being just slightly out of perfect balance.
Not individually enough to cause a noticeable shake in the steering wheel.
Lets say that after breaking in the tires in (500) miles later, you start kicking it up in speed to say 70mph.
Seems pretty smooth so your satisfied with the job.
A week later you kick it up to 70 and you notice a slight pulsation on the steering wheel. WHAT ???
I must have thrown a wheel weight. I'll take it back as soon as I can make time ...
Another week later your driving the same stretch at 70 and no pulsation ???
Here is another possiblity other then a thrown wheel weight.
On the Front End when you turn your wheels, one wheel travels faster/farther then the other.
This then positions each tire in a different position in relation to the other.
When the 2 slight out of balance tires/wheels both get lined up together, each with a little out of balance condition, they are now no longer just a little out of balance.
You have a double whammie going on and until that rotates back to where they offset each other again, that senario can create an issue on the front end.
Similar conditions could also be created by bent/damaged wheels, etc. etc.
It is much like listening to a 2 engine outboard boat or prop plane.
Unless you Sinc the two motors RPM wise, they sound like they are pulsating...Which they are.
My point here is when you have this going on, many people tend to just put off doing anything about it. They just live with it cause it is tollerable to them after a while.
Meantime, the over and over intermitent/constant out of balance condition on the wheel bearings ... over time could it stress them enough to cause a premature failure??
This does not address all the other conditions that could be a factor but it is one that I don't think many have thought about when it comes to tire/wheel maintenance.
Just my thoughts on this.
SF
Kinda like the issue of Warped Rotors and manually adjusting the rear brakes to slow the issue from appearing.
Does anybody have a feeling like I do that out of Balance wheel/tire assembly's could have a very stressful effect on the Hub/wheels bearings ?
Even just a mildly out of balance assembly creates a constant throbbing action on those vital parts.
As an example, think about this senario.
You put on a new set of tires and the dealer balances them for you.
The 2 fronts end up each being just slightly out of perfect balance.
Not individually enough to cause a noticeable shake in the steering wheel.
Lets say that after breaking in the tires in (500) miles later, you start kicking it up in speed to say 70mph.
Seems pretty smooth so your satisfied with the job.
A week later you kick it up to 70 and you notice a slight pulsation on the steering wheel. WHAT ???
I must have thrown a wheel weight. I'll take it back as soon as I can make time ...
Another week later your driving the same stretch at 70 and no pulsation ???
Here is another possiblity other then a thrown wheel weight.
On the Front End when you turn your wheels, one wheel travels faster/farther then the other.
This then positions each tire in a different position in relation to the other.
When the 2 slight out of balance tires/wheels both get lined up together, each with a little out of balance condition, they are now no longer just a little out of balance.
You have a double whammie going on and until that rotates back to where they offset each other again, that senario can create an issue on the front end.
Similar conditions could also be created by bent/damaged wheels, etc. etc.
It is much like listening to a 2 engine outboard boat or prop plane.
Unless you Sinc the two motors RPM wise, they sound like they are pulsating...Which they are.
My point here is when you have this going on, many people tend to just put off doing anything about it. They just live with it cause it is tollerable to them after a while.
Meantime, the over and over intermitent/constant out of balance condition on the wheel bearings ... over time could it stress them enough to cause a premature failure??
This does not address all the other conditions that could be a factor but it is one that I don't think many have thought about when it comes to tire/wheel maintenance.
Just my thoughts on this.
SF
10-15-2012, 06:36 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
HHR is what it is in O.A. Qualityof Parts and Engineering.
We seldom had this same issue when cars used needle bearings that were greaseable and adjustable .. unless the part was defective or not maintained properly.
It seems to me that the change came about for some of the following reasons.
1. Lower rolling resistance
2. Quicker/easier production assembly
3. No Maintanance
4. High replacement costs .. GM Parts and dealers benefit except under warranty repairs which have been dropped by GM since 2010 model.
I wonder WHY ??? Hmmm.
Last edited by Silverfox; 10-16-2012 at 11:34 AM.
10-19-2012, 03:21 AM
#4
Member
Join Date: 01-11-2012
Location: finland, europe
Posts: 96
i have been wondering and worrying about same thing, original wheels were totally out of balance since those were worn out when we acquired our hhr. i balanced them at shop, and they worked ok. i also replaced warped pulsating brake discs and pads.
but now after 5000 miles wheels feel out of balance again. i am suspecting modern wheels with those glued on wheel weights are really unreliable. they come off really easily and often. so watch out of your wheel weights
but now after 5000 miles wheels feel out of balance again. i am suspecting modern wheels with those glued on wheel weights are really unreliable. they come off really easily and often. so watch out of your wheel weights
10-19-2012, 11:33 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-01-2006
Location: lockport,ny
Posts: 1,377
If I remember correctly, there was a member here that worked in the bearing industry and he described why they are failing. According to him (barfan?) the roller bearings were replaced by ball bearings for less rolling resistance as demanded by the auto manufacturers. I have replaced hubs on several friend's cars of different makes and they all failed at around 100K miles.
The bearing failure issues seem to be widespread.
I am replacing a hub on my HHR this weekend. Curiosity will compel me to disassemble the old bearing to see why its making noise (but is not loose).
Steve
The bearing failure issues seem to be widespread.
I am replacing a hub on my HHR this weekend. Curiosity will compel me to disassemble the old bearing to see why its making noise (but is not loose).
Steve
10-19-2012, 01:46 PM
#6
Member
Join Date: 08-27-2007
Location: Struble, IA
Posts: 31
What I don't understand is why people are complaining about a $100 WEAR part wearing out after 50,000 miles............or especially 100,000!
Do you think an A5 and A3 taper bearing don't wear after that amount of time? Sure, you could just tighten the castle nut and keep going with those, but with a sealed bearing, you don't need to make sure that you get the play pretty much dead on.
Do you think an A5 and A3 taper bearing don't wear after that amount of time? Sure, you could just tighten the castle nut and keep going with those, but with a sealed bearing, you don't need to make sure that you get the play pretty much dead on.
10-19-2012, 09:03 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-15-2008
Location: Newburgh, NY
Posts: 1,599
VERY TRUE! In contrast, remember when it was acceptable to replace things such as shock absorbers at 12k mi, engine oil at 3k (or less), points & plugs at 12k and an exhaust system at 25k!
10-22-2012, 02:13 AM
#8
Member
Join Date: 01-11-2012
Location: finland, europe
Posts: 96
i replaced my shocks to my impala once, 20 years ago.stainless exhaust system was done also over 20yrs ago. bearings were tightened 10 years ago, yeah should do it now. and i have driven that beater way over 50k miles. love the boat ride. but I see Your point, maintenance-free is good when it works. but its not fun if replacing parts if maintenance sequence gets any tighter. ...rotors should last more than 40 k. in old times those were like eternal- hot stuff on swapmeets, now they are freebie offers
10-22-2012, 06:05 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
Here is the deal on the bearing not only the HHR but all FWD cars and now RWD cars using this kind of BALL BEARING hub.
Note I highlighted Ball Bearing as this is where the issue lies. You hit the nail on the head that they have a lower rolling resistance.
Most MFG have gone to them because they return more MPG nothing more and nothing less. That is the only reason as they really are not cheaper or easier to replace and for sure they are not as durable but they do return a greater MPG that is much harder to get out of a vehicle today with other systems.
The nature of a ball bearing is that it has less surface area that creates the less resisstance but on the other hand it promotes more wear and damage since it roll in the same small aread of the race.
Also they are not as strong. One hit sliding into a curb can set them onto the path of failure.
You are correct even a tire well out of balance can take a worn bearing and make it fail sooner.
The old taper roller were just biggerm, stronger and more durable but they just have too much surface area and it hurts MPG.
I hate to say it but the goverment forcing vehicles to get mroe MPG may have a good effect on the amount of gas we use but we will pay the price with little things like this. Also larger engines and larger cars will soon be a thing of the past if they continue to force the new 53 MPG CAFE on us.
The President said the other day how great it will be that we will be able to go twice as far on a gallon of gas. Well he is partly right but he should have put up a picture of a Chevy Spark and said this is what you will be driving to do it.
Sorry for getting off track there but the bottom line is these bearings are in nearly ever vehicle today and nearly all brands and makes have the same issues and much shorter lives. In fact we carry a new company that all they do are these kinds of sealed hub ball bearings. That should be a sign to all of us this has created a new market for greater bearing sales.
Also note they seal them to try to make them live longer. It is better than if they were open as no matter how often you packed them they would last less unsealed.
But I will agree in some not all cases the tire being out can effect the hub. The bigger and heavier the tire the more risk to the bearing.
Note I highlighted Ball Bearing as this is where the issue lies. You hit the nail on the head that they have a lower rolling resistance.
Most MFG have gone to them because they return more MPG nothing more and nothing less. That is the only reason as they really are not cheaper or easier to replace and for sure they are not as durable but they do return a greater MPG that is much harder to get out of a vehicle today with other systems.
The nature of a ball bearing is that it has less surface area that creates the less resisstance but on the other hand it promotes more wear and damage since it roll in the same small aread of the race.
Also they are not as strong. One hit sliding into a curb can set them onto the path of failure.
You are correct even a tire well out of balance can take a worn bearing and make it fail sooner.
The old taper roller were just biggerm, stronger and more durable but they just have too much surface area and it hurts MPG.
I hate to say it but the goverment forcing vehicles to get mroe MPG may have a good effect on the amount of gas we use but we will pay the price with little things like this. Also larger engines and larger cars will soon be a thing of the past if they continue to force the new 53 MPG CAFE on us.
The President said the other day how great it will be that we will be able to go twice as far on a gallon of gas. Well he is partly right but he should have put up a picture of a Chevy Spark and said this is what you will be driving to do it.
Sorry for getting off track there but the bottom line is these bearings are in nearly ever vehicle today and nearly all brands and makes have the same issues and much shorter lives. In fact we carry a new company that all they do are these kinds of sealed hub ball bearings. That should be a sign to all of us this has created a new market for greater bearing sales.
Also note they seal them to try to make them live longer. It is better than if they were open as no matter how often you packed them they would last less unsealed.
But I will agree in some not all cases the tire being out can effect the hub. The bigger and heavier the tire the more risk to the bearing.
11-23-2012, 06:40 PM
#10
Join Date: 09-13-2011
Location: Greenville, Michigan
Posts: 7
early failure of wheelbearings.
What I don't understand is why people are complaining about a $100 WEAR part wearing out after 50,000 miles............or especially 100,000!
Do you think an A5 and A3 taper bearing don't wear after that amount of time? Sure, you could just tighten the castle nut and keep going with those, but with a sealed bearing, you don't need to make sure that you get the play pretty much dead on.
Do you think an A5 and A3 taper bearing don't wear after that amount of time? Sure, you could just tighten the castle nut and keep going with those, but with a sealed bearing, you don't need to make sure that you get the play pretty much dead on.