Car sputters and hard to crank on a cold start.
11-18-2013, 04:00 PM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-15-2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14
Car sputters and hard to crank on a cold start.
Hello everyone. I have a 2011 HHR with only 32000 miles. My car is sputtering after cranking it only on a cold start. My check engine light is also on and the error code is (P 0172). When I took it to the dealership for a diagnosis, they tell me that the fuel trim is rich and that my alcohol content from the gasoline I'm using is very high, over 65% and that is what's causing my car to sputter on a cold start and my check engine light to come on. Of course that kind of problem want be covered under the manufacturers warranty.
They claim in order to fix the problem, they would need to clean the fuel injectors and the throttle body. After cleaning all of that the computer would have to be programmed also. I'm sorry but that sounds like a bunch of bull and I'm not believing that story without seeking a second opinion first.
Has anyone ever had this kind of problem?
They claim in order to fix the problem, they would need to clean the fuel injectors and the throttle body. After cleaning all of that the computer would have to be programmed also. I'm sorry but that sounds like a bunch of bull and I'm not believing that story without seeking a second opinion first.
Has anyone ever had this kind of problem?
11-18-2013, 04:12 PM
#2
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Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
A few people have had the same code pop up. Did you use the Search Tool at the top of the page to search for p0172? One that I just read mentioned that they cleaned the MAF sensor and the problem cleared.
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/problems-service-repairs-42/more-cel-p0172-44575/
Did you fuel up with e85 instead of regular gas? Is your car e85 capable?
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/problems-service-repairs-42/more-cel-p0172-44575/
Did you fuel up with e85 instead of regular gas? Is your car e85 capable?
11-18-2013, 04:21 PM
#3
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Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,804
X2.....
before allowing the dealer to proceed I would use up as much of the fuel, that is in the tank, as possible and refill with a name brand making sure it is AT LEAST 87 octane then use Seafoam, or similar product. Might be required to do this a couple of times to get acceptable results. And of course do as suggested above.
Look at the threads that are listed for your problem in the "Search" field.
Of course you may also have a fuel pressure problem, which creates additional service.
Do you know how the dealer determined that your current fuel is 65% alcohol?
before allowing the dealer to proceed I would use up as much of the fuel, that is in the tank, as possible and refill with a name brand making sure it is AT LEAST 87 octane then use Seafoam, or similar product. Might be required to do this a couple of times to get acceptable results. And of course do as suggested above.
Look at the threads that are listed for your problem in the "Search" field.
Of course you may also have a fuel pressure problem, which creates additional service.
Do you know how the dealer determined that your current fuel is 65% alcohol?
11-18-2013, 05:10 PM
#4
Deceased
Join Date: 06-30-2010
Location: Kannapolis NC
Posts: 25,739
Check your PM, and sorry for the late reply.
To me it sounds like a dealer that's bypassing the proper diagnostic procedures and going for your wallet with the classic "upsell" of a "Fuel System Service".
To me, the first step is always suspecting a dirty, failed, or loose MAF sensor.
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0172
To me it sounds like a dealer that's bypassing the proper diagnostic procedures and going for your wallet with the classic "upsell" of a "Fuel System Service".
To me, the first step is always suspecting a dirty, failed, or loose MAF sensor.
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0172
11-18-2013, 05:14 PM
#5
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,688
A. they can tell the alcohol % with a scanner.
B. P0172 Can mean: bad O2 sensor, exhaust leak, bad catalytic converter, broken flex pipe among other things.
C. Pretty amazing that a GM dealer would leave it at that. An OBDII code is the STARTING point in a diagnostic not the end.
B. P0172 Can mean: bad O2 sensor, exhaust leak, bad catalytic converter, broken flex pipe among other things.
C. Pretty amazing that a GM dealer would leave it at that. An OBDII code is the STARTING point in a diagnostic not the end.
11-18-2013, 05:41 PM
#6
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,804
donbrew....
I know what the procedure is (by the way, they also use a litmus paper test and compare it to a color chart). I want to know if the dealer did that or guessed. Seems like an unusual number, but I guess it would depend on the mixture proportions.
But I doubt even "if" he used any mixture ratio it would cause the symptoms he is expressing.....unless used for a long period of time AND the mixture did cause some corroding effect.
I know what the procedure is (by the way, they also use a litmus paper test and compare it to a color chart). I want to know if the dealer did that or guessed. Seems like an unusual number, but I guess it would depend on the mixture proportions.
But I doubt even "if" he used any mixture ratio it would cause the symptoms he is expressing.....unless used for a long period of time AND the mixture did cause some corroding effect.
11-18-2013, 07:55 PM
#7
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,688
donbrew....
I know what the procedure is (by the way, they also use a litmus paper test and compare it to a color chart). I want to know if the dealer did that or guessed. Seems like an unusual number, but I guess it would depend on the mixture proportions.
But I doubt even "if" he used any mixture ratio it would cause the symptoms he is expressing.....unless used for a long period of time AND the mixture did cause some corroding effect.
I know what the procedure is (by the way, they also use a litmus paper test and compare it to a color chart). I want to know if the dealer did that or guessed. Seems like an unusual number, but I guess it would depend on the mixture proportions.
But I doubt even "if" he used any mixture ratio it would cause the symptoms he is expressing.....unless used for a long period of time AND the mixture did cause some corroding effect.
And, it would only apply to FlexFuel vehicle anyway. It's a 2011 so it is.
The other way would be a refractometer (however it is spelled).
But it doesn't sound like the "dealer" spent much time on it.
11-18-2013, 08:10 PM
#8
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-15-2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14
A few people have had the same code pop up. Did you use the Search Tool at the top of the page to search for p0172? One that I just read mentioned that they cleaned the MAF sensor and the problem cleared.
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44575
Did you fuel up with e85 instead of regular gas? Is your car e85 capable?
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44575
Did you fuel up with e85 instead of regular gas? Is your car e85 capable?
When I typed in the error code in the search tool it didnt give me any results. But thanks for pasting the link so I can find it...
11-18-2013, 08:13 PM
#9
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-15-2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14
X2.....
before allowing the dealer to proceed I would use up as much of the fuel, that is in the tank, as possible and refill with a name brand making sure it is AT LEAST 87 octane then use Seafoam, or similar product. Might be required to do this a couple of times to get acceptable results. And of course do as suggested above.
Look at the threads that are listed for your problem in the "Search" field.
Of course you may also have a fuel pressure problem, which creates additional service.
Do you know how the dealer determined that your current fuel is 65% alcohol?
before allowing the dealer to proceed I would use up as much of the fuel, that is in the tank, as possible and refill with a name brand making sure it is AT LEAST 87 octane then use Seafoam, or similar product. Might be required to do this a couple of times to get acceptable results. And of course do as suggested above.
Look at the threads that are listed for your problem in the "Search" field.
Of course you may also have a fuel pressure problem, which creates additional service.
Do you know how the dealer determined that your current fuel is 65% alcohol?
11-18-2013, 08:21 PM
#10
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-15-2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14
A. they can tell the alcohol % with a scanner.
B. P0172 Can mean: bad O2 sensor, exhaust leak, bad catalytic converter, broken flex pipe among other things.
C. Pretty amazing that a GM dealer would leave it at that. An OBDII code is the STARTING point in a diagnostic not the end.
B. P0172 Can mean: bad O2 sensor, exhaust leak, bad catalytic converter, broken flex pipe among other things.
C. Pretty amazing that a GM dealer would leave it at that. An OBDII code is the STARTING point in a diagnostic not the end.
Yes I totally agree that an OBDII code is the STARTING point in any diagnostic, but it should definitely point you in the right direction in troubleshooting a problem. But my next step is too seek out another dealership for a second opinion for sure.
Thanks for your input and for replying to my thread.