Problems/Service/Repairs If you have a problem with your HHR, want a tip on repairing or performing a particular service to you HHR here is the place to post!

P0172 Code- Help Please

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-19-2019, 09:38 AM
  #151  
Senior Member
 
DrLoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-07-2008
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 1,016
In the file I was looking at the long Terms don't start adjusting until ECT gets up to 104. Don I'm sure your right I've not looked into how they determine the content for the OP car. I do know that some GM's do have a sensor because some have added them to there ECM to make the correct alcohol corrections. The SS is using Lambda not AFR to fueling corrections. Lambda of 1 is a lambda of 1 regardless of the alcohol content. That is how I tune as well, it takes the alcohol content out of the equation, as long as the content remains within reason the trims will adjust.

The problem with the SS and say E85 is that the fuel system can't add enough fuel to maintain commanded fueling in boost. 205HHRAuto has determined that he can get away with blending E47 using the stock system with good results. Just can't get enough fuel through the DI injectors. A way of cheating the system is adding 5 injector in the intake manifold that starts injecting fuel at some predetermined MAF frequency or boost level. The SS system can adjust fueling at that point. Also let me add that the SS using using a torque based system for it's calculations and it is looking to match a lambda value not an AFR.
DrLoch is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:47 AM
  #152  
Senior Member
 
Cat Man HHR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-03-2010
Location: Lake Ronkonkoma, N.Y.
Posts: 3,564
My question is:
How did his values get that far out that he had the cold start problem to begin with?
Cat Man HHR is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:48 AM
  #153  
Senior Member
 
DrLoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-07-2008
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by cturboaddict
GREAT INFO!!!
After restting the fuel trim and alcohol content last night- i drove the car for approx 15 min. PARKED CAR for the evening.
Went out this morning and IT STARTED WITH NO ISSUE. Turned the key and fired right up with no pedal assistance or stumbling upon firing.

I drove the car a bit further and the STFT and LTFT are acting appropriately.

Haven't seen LTFT get into any double digits, and mostey stays close to zero when idling at a stop.
The alcohol content has settled in around 5.1% now. (I also refueled).
The STFT will fluctuate between -13 and positive 10 while driving, but evens to around +\- 3 the most of the time.

There are no codes present (besides the TPMS i need to replace in the left rear tire).

I think resetting the alcohol content and fuel trim may have rectified the issue for now.
That is good.....

Now you you need to see if there is a ECM update that can fix it. The other options are;
1) You have a device that can reset the trims and alcohol content when it starts acting up
2) You reprogram the ECM to take flex fuel out of the equation. Just know that you not be able to put in much more than E10/E15 fuel again.
FYI the alcohol content also impacts the timing. If it's determined that the alcohol is higher timing is higher as well, that's why they seem to be faster when you add E85 to the tank, because it is somewhat.


DrLoch is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:50 AM
  #154  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cturboaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-10-2010
Location: Collinsville, IL
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Cat Man HHR
My question is:
How did his values get that far out that he had the cold start problem to begin with?
Based on those videos from South Main Auto on youtube....
Short drives (Wife used to work down the street, literally took 4 minutes to WALK there)
Small top off of fuel (wife is notoriously known to let it run empty and top off with 5 to 10 bucks due to the short travel)
Running it to empty (see note above)

She fit all of the criteria he mentioned. Mind you, I'm taking his advice as pretty solid.
cturboaddict is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:53 AM
  #155  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cturboaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-10-2010
Location: Collinsville, IL
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by DrLoch
That is good.....

Now you you need to see if there is a ECM update that can fix it. The other options are;
1) You have a device that can reset the trims and alcohol content when it starts acting up
2) You reprogram the ECM to take flex fuel out of the equation. Just know that you not be able to put in much more than E10/E15 fuel again.
FYI the alcohol content also impacts the timing. If it's determined that the alcohol is higher timing is higher as well, that's why they seem to be faster when you add E85 to the tank, because it is somewhat.
Well, I immediately just bought the same scanner I borrowed. Should fit well for my hobbyist use, and my other build projects in the garage.
My wife now works back at a chevy dealership. I'm going to inspect the TIS website to see if she has the current update for that vehicle (I'm assuming not). And then see if they can just update it. I don't have the mongoose data connection nor a sign in to the site to flash the ECM. May be better to see if I can find someone with one to do it (say maybe a local trusted shop) or ask the service guys if they can help her out. Maybe they'll throw her a bone because she's an employee.
cturboaddict is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:54 AM
  #156  
Senior Member
 
DrLoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-07-2008
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by Cat Man HHR
My question is:
How did his values get that far out that he had the cold start problem to begin with?
Cat Man

I don't know how they are calculating the content to figure out where it could have gone wrong. If as Don suggests the O2 sensor is being used and the O2 sensor was compromised in any way the calculations would be wrong. I don't know of anyway to reset those values unless you have a high end reader/Tech II so if the OP O2 sensor was what caused it once he changed it how long does it take to reset the content value, if it does?
DrLoch is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:58 AM
  #157  
Senior Member
 
DrLoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-07-2008
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 1,016
Which scanner was it? This is all good information for other to see if they have a flex fuel HHR, or any flex fuel car. If you would have known those values you wouldn't have been throwing parts and money at it.
DrLoch is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:22 AM
  #158  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
cturboaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-10-2010
Location: Collinsville, IL
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by DrLoch
Which scanner was it? This is all good information for other to see if they have a flex fuel HHR, or any flex fuel car. If you would have known those values you wouldn't have been throwing parts and money at it.
Matco MaxMEa
Retails about $1000 new. It runs on a subscription base per month. You can pay 105 per month for all makes/models for up to date info. Or $20 per month for any single make. Scanner operates with live data like any other scanner when the subscription is not active. You can get a far bit deeper with the subscription. No updates needed like the other scanners. You can turn off/turn on the subscription at any time.

Last edited by cturboaddict; 01-19-2019 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Spelling
cturboaddict is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 11:02 AM
  #159  
Technical Moderator
 
donbrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,691
I don't know what "resetting the STFT" means; by definition it resets every calculation interval.

If you are paying a monthly subscription I would assume that includes TIS subscription. If not I don't know what for. Individuals can purchase daily subs to TIS.
donbrew is offline  
Old 01-19-2019, 11:06 AM
  #160  
Administrator
 
Oldblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,502
Short
Term
Fuel
Trim

now why would that be needed to be adjusted?

Shhhh, I’ve got to read up in this stuff

https://www.autoequipment.com.au/ima...iagnostics.pdf
Oldblue is offline  


Quick Reply: P0172 Code- Help Please



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.