Stealership tried to rip me off on repairs to my SS
07-17-2017, 09:13 PM
#1
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Join Date: 09-16-2014
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Posts: 128
Stealership tried to rip me off on repairs to my SS
Took my '08 SS with 67,000 km (~42K miles) on it into the closest stealership to get them to troubleshoot and repair a low boost condition. I was travelling on a long highway trip when the boost dropped and the most I could get out of it was about 2-3 lbs of boost. I checked as much of the turbo plumbing as I could and could not see any leaks, cracks or holes between the turbo and the intercooler and the intercooler and the intake. Figured it was probably a sensor. The check engine light came on but I do not own a code reader yet. I was in a hurry to get the thing diagnosed and working again because I'm going on holidays at the end of the week and I know some of the SS specific parts like the MAP sensor are not available locally and take 2-3 days to get in. As such, I was forced to take it to the closest dealership.
The diagnosis was a faulty MAF sensor which they did have in stock. Then they told me this:
The mechanic saw some dust in the air intake so they said I should have them take the entire turbo piping system out and have it cleaned. Then they said I should have the who fuel injection system including injectors cleaned. The car was running great up until the sensor went down and still ran very nicely afterwards but just with much less power due to almost no boost. All this was going to cost another $400 - $500 more.
Then - get this - they said I needed a tune up for a whole bunch more money because my "spark plugs are fuel fouled" or as the technician put it in his notes "the spark plugs are fuel saturated":.
WTF?!! 
Fuel Saturated?! What does that even mean? They must've thought I was a moron and knew nothing about engines. I'll admit I don't know everything about this HHR engine being a Volvo guy all my life but I know a fair bit. I'm an engineer and have worked on all kinds of motors my whole life.
How would he know anything about the condition of the spark plugs or the FI system if all he was doing was troubleshooting the boost? They're just making stuff up oit of thin air to run up the cost. Unless someone can explain to me how his recommendations were fair and honest I'm going to hold the view that the stealership underhandedly and dishonestly tried to sell me some muffler bearings and radiator grease. Not dealing with them ever again!
At any rate, I told them not to do one thing more than what I specifically asked them to do and promptly took the car home. Oh, and it's running great despite the fuel saturated spark plugs
The diagnosis was a faulty MAF sensor which they did have in stock. Then they told me this:
The mechanic saw some dust in the air intake so they said I should have them take the entire turbo piping system out and have it cleaned. Then they said I should have the who fuel injection system including injectors cleaned. The car was running great up until the sensor went down and still ran very nicely afterwards but just with much less power due to almost no boost. All this was going to cost another $400 - $500 more.
Then - get this - they said I needed a tune up for a whole bunch more money because my "spark plugs are fuel fouled" or as the technician put it in his notes "the spark plugs are fuel saturated":.
WTF?!! Fuel Saturated?! What does that even mean? They must've thought I was a moron and knew nothing about engines. I'll admit I don't know everything about this HHR engine being a Volvo guy all my life but I know a fair bit. I'm an engineer and have worked on all kinds of motors my whole life. How would he know anything about the condition of the spark plugs or the FI system if all he was doing was troubleshooting the boost? They're just making stuff up oit of thin air to run up the cost. Unless someone can explain to me how his recommendations were fair and honest I'm going to hold the view that the stealership underhandedly and dishonestly tried to sell me some muffler bearings and radiator grease. Not dealing with them ever again!
At any rate, I told them not to do one thing more than what I specifically asked them to do and promptly took the car home. Oh, and it's running great despite the fuel saturated spark plugs
07-17-2017, 09:22 PM
#2
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Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,671
Did they suggest a power steering fluid flush, like mine did?
Fuel saturated may be the byproduct of direct injection. And a bad MAF.
Most big box auto parts stores will read codes for free.
Fuel saturated may be the byproduct of direct injection. And a bad MAF.
Most big box auto parts stores will read codes for free.
07-17-2017, 09:36 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 09-16-2014
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Posts: 128
No, they didn't go as far as suggesting the power steering flush.
The only way you're going to know if the spark plugs are fouled is to pull them and look at them. He never did that. He had no reason to. The car was running and idling smoothly when I took it in. It just didn't have much power because there was no boost. There was no reason to suspect fouled plugs. If plugs get fouled it's usually carbon fouled, maybe oil fouled on a 4 stroke with bad compression or a two stroke with too much oil in the mixture. They can become fuel fouled if you flood the motor with the choke but give them time to dry out and they'll be fine. That doesn't happen with an advanced FI system metering the fuel.
But fuel saturated? What can that even mean? It sounds like the spark plugs are soggy with fuel. How does a metal and ceramic spark plug become saturated in anything? You could totally immerse a spark plug in gasoline for weeks and weeks and all you'd have to do is take it out of the fuel, dry it off and screw it back in the cylinder head and it should work fine. Fuel fouled my ass.
The only way you're going to know if the spark plugs are fouled is to pull them and look at them. He never did that. He had no reason to. The car was running and idling smoothly when I took it in. It just didn't have much power because there was no boost. There was no reason to suspect fouled plugs. If plugs get fouled it's usually carbon fouled, maybe oil fouled on a 4 stroke with bad compression or a two stroke with too much oil in the mixture. They can become fuel fouled if you flood the motor with the choke but give them time to dry out and they'll be fine. That doesn't happen with an advanced FI system metering the fuel.
But fuel saturated? What can that even mean? It sounds like the spark plugs are soggy with fuel. How does a metal and ceramic spark plug become saturated in anything? You could totally immerse a spark plug in gasoline for weeks and weeks and all you'd have to do is take it out of the fuel, dry it off and screw it back in the cylinder head and it should work fine. Fuel fouled my ass.
07-18-2017, 07:46 PM
#5
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Join Date: 09-16-2014
Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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No, they didn't. Just says on the invoice/report that the sensor was reading 13 GP/S at idle when it should be reading 2-6. I'm not familiar with the units GP/S are. Something that begins with G per second I guess. Anyone know?
Since it's a MAF it should be some sort of volume flow rate but the only volume measurement I know of that starts with G is gallons but that would be an odd unit to use for air flow.
Since it's a MAF it should be some sort of volume flow rate but the only volume measurement I know of that starts with G is gallons but that would be an odd unit to use for air flow.
07-18-2017, 09:57 PM
#6
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Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
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What units do you measure fuel with? Gallons / gallons makes for an easy A/F ratio calculation.
However, the testing parameters for the MAF sensor is Hz. The MAP is in Kpa.
Measuring the volume only tells you the information the computer is using, could be a sensor could be something affecting what the sensor is measuring.
However, the testing parameters for the MAF sensor is Hz. The MAP is in Kpa.
Measuring the volume only tells you the information the computer is using, could be a sensor could be something affecting what the sensor is measuring.
