SS Specific Service Issues/Repairs Service/Repairs specific to the SS. Turbo-Brembo Brakes-2.0 Engine-Limited Slip Differential-Programmable Display-MU3 Transmission

2009 SS Panel - Active Codes P0011, P0014 and intermittent severe engine rattle

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 7, 2024 | 02:35 PM
  #11  
Oldblue's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: 10-13-2011
Posts: 40,082
From: Welland,Ont Canada
Originally Posted by RJ_RS_SS_350
Interesting note in the description of that second link.
I always recommend the Cloyes kits with out the sprockets, for that reason.
Old Nov 7, 2024 | 07:23 PM
  #12  
PulpFriction's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: 12-05-2014
Posts: 3,368
From: Northern Ohio
I think the parts to use for an Ecotec chain job are as follows:

1) Get the GM cam chain kit with no sprockets. Omit the front guide and use ZZP upgraded guide instead. This gets you the GM chain & tensioner. (I returned a Cloyes cam chain tensioner, bad out of the box.) Get any upgraded upper bolt to use instead of what's in the kit.
2) Get anyone's balance chain kit with no sprockets, but us the GM 28289946 tensioner instead of what's in the kit.

Alternavely, yoy could get the ZZP upgraded complete kit if you discard the included Cloyes balance tensioner and use the GM 28289946 mentioned above instead.

That GM 28289946 balance tensioner has a stronger spring. It supersedes the older one in later Ecotec cars but for some reason GM doesn't seem to have made the change for HHR.

I don't like replacing OEM water pumps unless really needed.

ZZP recommends against changing any sprockets

I think using a new engine cover gasket is prudent because if it leaks it's a serious pita to go back and change.
Old Nov 7, 2024 | 11:03 PM
  #13  
Marks SS Panel's Avatar
Thread Starter
 
Joined: 01-13-2016
Posts: 9
From: Cape Fair, MO
Originally Posted by RJ_RS_SS_350
Just to be sure we're all on the same page, the cam phasers are built in to the camshaft sprockets. The 2 electrical devices on the top of the engine are VVT solenoid valves.
Originally Posted by RJ_RS_SS_350
Interesting note in the description of that second link.
Originally Posted by Oldblue
Change the chains and guides and as I posted install the ZZP front guide and a replacement bolt for that upper bolt in the front guide.

https://zzperformance.com/products/e...ain-guide-bolt

Both are included in this kit

https://zzperformance.com/products/z...ming-chain-kit
Originally Posted by PulpFriction
The are some cheapo kits out there that include unneeded parts that do more harm than good. That includes poor quality phaser, solenoid valves, and chain tensioners.

In addition to the inspecions already suggested, with the valve cover off I would look would look down the front chain gallery an try to see if the front guide looks intact. It's notorious for breaking very quickly, especially in an engine that sees high-RPM operation. Also, ask your mechanic if the phasers were changed.

Let me ask some questions. What symptoms led to the timing chain job? How many miles on the engine? Any prior problem or repair history? What do you know about the oil change history? What oil is in it now? Any additives? And finally, a kinda dumb question but just to be sure, have you checked the oil level?
ok so let me apologize for my mixed up comments on cam phasers and vvt solenoids.
My cam phasers display shows to completely stop working after a few minutes of running.
And I’ve had to change I believe 6 VVT Solenoids, no cam phasers.

So out of curiosity to find exactly what’s wrong, I couldn’t wait until the weekend to pull the valve cover off. So I pulled it tonight and found a little slack in the chain. The upper guide is missing with only the metal mount left. I checked the front guide and checked the questionable bolt as suggested by several on here. After pulling the plug out to access the bolt. I found it only had about 2 threads holding it in.
I also pulled both VVT solenoids and found trash in both.
After finding trash I was curious how it went through the oil system to get there. So I pulled the oil filter and found that when the shop that did all the work followed by changing the oil, had crushed the filter and wasn’t even filtering the oil. Which now concerns me about bearing damage etc.
So I’ll be ordering parts in the morning.
But I have 2 questions. Can I clean the screens on the intake and exhaust solenoids and re-use them?
And what could be causing the cam phasers to go to zero and appear to stop working, at least on my display?
I also want to say Thank You very much to you guys who responded with helping me figure this out!!
Old Nov 7, 2024 | 11:35 PM
  #14  
firemangeorge's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Joined: 12-06-2009
Posts: 11,721
From: Alabama
Most oil filters will come out of the engines looking crushed/twisted. It is a combination of a wet soggy filter and the twisting off of the oil filter cap when removing the old filter.
Old Nov 8, 2024 | 07:15 AM
  #15  
Oldblue's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: 10-13-2011
Posts: 40,082
From: Welland,Ont Canada
With metal particles in them , change them. Why risk damaging the engine
Old Nov 8, 2024 | 08:10 AM
  #16  
PulpFriction's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: 12-05-2014
Posts: 3,368
From: Northern Ohio
More diagnostic work to do.

It looks like maybe the VVT solenoid valves aren’t moving oil correctly. What kind of “trash” on them?Look at it with a magnifier.
Old Nov 8, 2024 | 11:04 AM
  #17  
Marks SS Panel's Avatar
Thread Starter
 
Joined: 01-13-2016
Posts: 9
From: Cape Fair, MO
Originally Posted by PulpFriction
More diagnostic work to do.

It looks like maybe the VVT solenoid valves aren’t moving oil correctly. What kind of “trash” on them?Look at it with a magnifier.
After letting all the stuff I cleaned off the solenoids dry overnight on a paper towel, I spread it all out this morning. Thinking the majority was paper filter material since the filter wasn’t seated on either end. But after drying, the majority appears to just be carbon as it just rubbed away to nothing solid on the paper towel. However this did reveal a lot of shiny chrome like shavings. They’re all flat, about the size of fine ground pepper, and don’t appear to be magnetic using a magnet. So I’m not familiar enough with these engines to know what if anything would be aluminum. It reminds me of very small pieces of a cam lobe surface.
Upon closer inspection with my camera probe this morning, all the guides (with the exception of the missing top guide) appear to be in place and no damage. I do agree with old blue about replacing both VVT solenoids just to be on the safe side.
With the cam phasers both going to zero and stops showing any change on my display, I’m curious as to where they get their feedback signal and what would cause that.
Old Nov 8, 2024 | 11:48 AM
  #18  
RJ_RS_SS_350's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: 05-01-2014
Posts: 8,511
From: California
The metal shavings are typically from the loose chain grinding on aluminum bolts and/or engine block. The missing upper guide has been ground away.
Old Nov 8, 2024 | 12:04 PM
  #19  
Oldblue's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: 10-13-2011
Posts: 40,082
From: Welland,Ont Canada
The upper guide is metal but not aluminum, neither are the bolts, the camshafts sit directly on the cylinder head, no cam bearings , remove a camshaft cap and inspect, I would remove both cams and make sure there’s oil there do you don’t have a dry start, here’s more information
It’s LE9 but the LNF is similar


https://www.ddmworks.com/assets/imag...uild%20Kit.pdf

In the intake cam just lift it a touch so you don’t need to deal with the HPFP
Old Nov 8, 2024 | 03:12 PM
  #20  
PulpFriction's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: 12-05-2014
Posts: 3,368
From: Northern Ohio
If the metal particle are non-magnetic, they’re aluminum or bearing material.

The VVT solenoid valve screen are course enough that I imagine enough swarf could get past them and jam the valves. Or the phasers. I have no more plausible explanation for inoperative phasers… other than no oil pressure up there, which is not a trivial concern. I know nothing about the oil galleries and pathways.

I would want nothing but GM solenoid valves and phasers. Betcha the shop scrapped the OE phasers and installed junk.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:57 PM.