Won't fire after sitting in the cold
12-23-2008, 09:27 AM
#21
Member
Join Date: 03-30-2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 78
Yeah, I really didn't think one night would freeze it up, considering its 6 months old. It did sit out another night, but its since spent two nights warming up to above freezing temperatures, and two days in the garage in temperatures warmer then it was sitting in all week. Apples and oranges, but the Denali sat outside all through this every night (only have single garage) snd started without being plugged in all last week. The SS doesn't come with a block heater which is really rare up here in Canada, but judging by my problem, not sure if that would help.
Tried it again this morning, again almost fired but nothing.
Unless my fuel guage is wrong and I have no gas left, it shows 1/3 a tank. When turning the key I hear a slight whirr in the back that I think it my fuel pump, but I am still thinking it has to be my fuel pump frozen, or the lines.
I just don't want to do any damage to the starter by continually trying.
Good and bad about the holidays coming, we don't need both cars after tomorrow until Monday, bad part being the dealer isn't open either until Monday.
I already had an appointment for an oil change and a rattle for Tuesday, looks like, with temperatures getting not much warmer (at least in comparison to it being in the home heated garage...something I can't continue as my gas bill will show at the end of the month after trying to heat a cold garage) it will have to wait until then.
Tried it again this morning, again almost fired but nothing.
Unless my fuel guage is wrong and I have no gas left, it shows 1/3 a tank. When turning the key I hear a slight whirr in the back that I think it my fuel pump, but I am still thinking it has to be my fuel pump frozen, or the lines.
I just don't want to do any damage to the starter by continually trying.
Good and bad about the holidays coming, we don't need both cars after tomorrow until Monday, bad part being the dealer isn't open either until Monday.
I already had an appointment for an oil change and a rattle for Tuesday, looks like, with temperatures getting not much warmer (at least in comparison to it being in the home heated garage...something I can't continue as my gas bill will show at the end of the month after trying to heat a cold garage) it will have to wait until then.
12-24-2008, 04:25 PM
#22
New Member
Join Date: 12-20-2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 18
I hear ya, calgaryhhrss.
I have a 2007 - only the second owner - and I have outdoor parking only.
A couple of mornings I had to fire it up at -29 (or colder - I don't think the LED thermometer wanted to even TRY and read the temp
), and it DID start on the first try.
I am now using the tip from earlier in this thread - turning the key to "on" and waiting for the short whirring sound to stop. That gives the vehicle a bit of fuel, and works well for me.
At -25 or colder, I let it idle for a full minute if possible. I was quite startled to see the coolant temp at -16 (3.2 F) one morning!
I have a 2007 - only the second owner - and I have outdoor parking only.
A couple of mornings I had to fire it up at -29 (or colder - I don't think the LED thermometer wanted to even TRY and read the temp
), and it DID start on the first try.I am now using the tip from earlier in this thread - turning the key to "on" and waiting for the short whirring sound to stop. That gives the vehicle a bit of fuel, and works well for me.
At -25 or colder, I let it idle for a full minute if possible. I was quite startled to see the coolant temp at -16 (3.2 F) one morning!
12-24-2008, 04:54 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-02-2008
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 199
I would LOVE to see some of you guys from the southern states driving in a snow storm when the road is so icy it's like a mirror and you can barely see the front of your HOOD because of the wind and snow. And while your nose is in the frozen windshield (your not-so-new wipers are covered with ice and just smearing) a huge 18 wheeler zooms by 'cause he's sitting tall above the snow drifts, and it makes your heart rev faster than your engine 
12-24-2008, 06:51 PM
#24
Member
Join Date: 03-30-2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 78
I hear ya, calgaryhhrss.
I have a 2007 - only the second owner - and I have outdoor parking only.
A couple of mornings I had to fire it up at -29 (or colder - I don't think the LED thermometer wanted to even TRY and read the temp ), and it DID start on the first try.
I am now using the tip from earlier in this thread - turning the key to "on" and waiting for the short whirring sound to stop. That gives the vehicle a bit of fuel, and works well for me.
At -25 or colder, I let it idle for a full minute if possible. I was quite startled to see the coolant temp at -16 (3.2 F) one morning!
I have a 2007 - only the second owner - and I have outdoor parking only.
A couple of mornings I had to fire it up at -29 (or colder - I don't think the LED thermometer wanted to even TRY and read the temp
), and it DID start on the first try.I am now using the tip from earlier in this thread - turning the key to "on" and waiting for the short whirring sound to stop. That gives the vehicle a bit of fuel, and works well for me.
At -25 or colder, I let it idle for a full minute if possible. I was quite startled to see the coolant temp at -16 (3.2 F) one morning!
Yeah, I have been letting the whirr do its thing...but its not doing the trick.
Its pretty much toast now for until Monday when the dealership reopens, at the expense of the the furnace running for hours upon end, I've tried yet again heating the garage as best I could, and I've gotten it to above freezing temperatues and tried it. Still nothing. Either something is really frozen that needs a couple days in constant well heated garage for things to thaw (which I can't provide) or there's something more terminal that's gone wrong the dealers are going to have to look at.
I have to stop trying to start it, based on the fact that it sounds like my battery's going now, and all this can't be too good for the starter.
So it will thus be at least 11 days, around the worst time of the year, without the car. And the charade on the weekend of pushing it out of the garage, down the driveway, and then once again using the truck to nudge it into place so that it can be towed away.
Pretty frustrating, especially racking up miles twice as fast on the truck, having to drive the wife too and from work everyday so I can have a vehicle, and we're trying to keep the miles down on the truck as there's only 6K miles left of the factory warranty (bought it used 4 months ago) that we want to try and make last for as long as possible in order to cath any issues with that before those expenses start coming out of my pocket.
Certainly I know I am to blame for having it sit out 1 (which turned to 2) nights, but in all honesty a 6 month old car should be able to start after 12 hours out in the cold....it had sat 8 hours out (when my wife took it to work the previous week with the temps really cold) with no issue...when our used Denali, 4 months removed from Arizona, starts up every day in the extreme temps with no issue, having to sit outside all day and night.
Anyways, thanks for letting me rant.
12-24-2008, 08:29 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-27-2006
Location: Kingsville On
Posts: 732
KAPUSKASING, Ontario At -40C, weird things happen to cars:
Tires freeze up, becoming glass hard.
And grease, it freezes, too. So when you drive away your tires won't rotate at all. If you don't notice that the tires aren't turning, then two blocks later the rubber will have worn off the bottom of at least one tire and you're stuck with a flat.
Leather seats, at -40C, become hard as rocks (unless you have seat heaters).
Plastic body parts crack, and sometimes even explode if pushed or kicked.
Power steering fluid can become frozen, as thick as glue, which can lock the steering.
Knobs can break off of radios. Windows snap out and break. Window channels can simply pop out because the materials have frozen and the glue no longer holds.
And, of course, there are those familiar cold-weather starting problems. All of which explain why more and more manufacturers now do extensive cold weather testing in Canada. Ford Motor Co. has a cold weather testing site in Thompson, Manitoba and Toyota Motor Corp. just opened a facility in Timmins, Ontario, last November.
But the granddaddy of all cold weather test centres is right here in Kapuskasing, Ont., 840 kilometres (520 miles) northwest of Toronto. It belongs to GM of Canada and it's managed by GM engineer Garry Whorpole.
"Nothing beats hot weather and cold weather extremes," says Whorpole. "If a car is going to falter, it's going to be in very cold weather or very hot weather. So here, we're testing the extremes, hoping to learn something to prevent something from happening over five or six years in a more regular environment."
There certainly isn't anything regular about Kapuskasing weather. The daily mean temperature for January is -23C. From December to the first of March, the mercury creeps above freezing for only an average of seven days. It's not unusual for the temperature to hover at -40C for weeks on end. And the record low, recorded in January, 1935, is -47C. Without factoring in the wind chill. Of which there is plenty on most winter days.
But 34-year-old Al Dixon doesn't mind. He's lived his whole life in Kapuskasing, a Cree name meaning "bend in the river," and every winter he's one of 100 or so seasonal workers involved in testing vehicles at GM's Cold Weather Development Centre. His job: among other things, cold start, with several other workers, dozens of vehicles each morning. Sometimes he and the rest of his crew change 160 batteries a day. Then they take those vehicles out onto a test track and abuse them, trying to squeeze out driveability problems.
"It's a great job," says Dixon. "The best thing is that over the years we see the things we log in these log books get fixed. So we feel like we're really doing something."
The two main activities at the centre involve cold weather starts and related testing for some 200 vehicles each year, and cold weather durability tests for an additional 60 or more vehicles.
In the latter, technicians and drivers not only record data from on-board computers, but also log the results of their vehicle abuse. That is, the testers try to replicate two years of typical usage in a test period of about 10 weeks. So they run the vehicles through 11 different test loops, stopping and starting, and frequently slamming doors and hoods, cranking up fans, turning down mirrors...cycling anything and everything that moves and operates. And, of course, they also run tests on snow? and ice-covered obstacle courses.
"Our winters up in Kap. are such that 99 per cent of North American vehicles will not experience a winter as severe as here," says Whorpole. "So if you can survive Kap., basically you can survive anything anywhere."
That's by design. GM of Canada first began serious and extensive winter testing in 1968, but 30 years ago it was all a pretty makeshift affair. A handful of engineers tried cold-weather starts in the parking lot of the Kapuskasing Inn, recording their data with the instruments in a large van that had previously been used to develop hot rod automobiles.
Soon, though, then-GM of Canada engineering director Dick McLaughlin, nephew of GM Canada founder Sam McLaughlin, recognized the value of a permanent cold weather facility. He assigned a young engineer named Gerry Malloy the task of doing the research to justify the expense, and then to make the business case to senior GM management.
"At the time there were a lot of small groups within the company off doing testing of their own," says Malloy today. "They may have gotten what they needed, but we felt that by putting everything together there were some real economies of scale and some real opportunities for real learning."
They chose Kapuskasing not just for its extreme weather, but also because it is relatively near GM
Canada's Oshawa headquarters and the parent corporation's head office in Detroit. They also needed a place accessible by air, highway and at the time by rail. And they needed a place that could accommodate an influx of dozens of engineers each year. That meant hotels and restaurants.
Kapuskasing, a town of 9,500 with a pulp mill as its major employer, was perfect.
While GM's Cold Weather Centre became official in 1971, construction of the extensive facilities began in the summer of '72 and the official opening came in February '73. Today, the permanent facility covers 159 acres and includes a 1.9 km. oval test track and a variety of buildings that include 19 vehicle work stalls, offices, a data acquisition centre, eight cold cells (giant refrigerators for testing vehicles in completely controlled environments), work yards and even fuel dispensing stations.
GM's testers spend their days and nights assessing cold cranking, cold starting, driveability, heater performance, front and rear defroster performance, tires, brakes batteries and various components, and the abilities and capabilities of advanced braking, traction and stability control systems.
The facility has also had a hand in dramatically improving battery performance, in the development of multi-grade oils for winter use, in improving heater performance, and in ensuring that electronic components and systems work in extreme weather. Of course, there is also the essential work related to making sure your car starts when it's -30C.
"When it was -30C back then (in 1971)," says Malloy, "if you could get a car started in 30 seconds it was more than a competitive product. Today, if the temperature is down to -35 or -40, it will probably start in five seconds. And if it doesn't, it probably won't start at all."
Tires freeze up, becoming glass hard.
And grease, it freezes, too. So when you drive away your tires won't rotate at all. If you don't notice that the tires aren't turning, then two blocks later the rubber will have worn off the bottom of at least one tire and you're stuck with a flat.
Leather seats, at -40C, become hard as rocks (unless you have seat heaters).
Plastic body parts crack, and sometimes even explode if pushed or kicked.
Power steering fluid can become frozen, as thick as glue, which can lock the steering.
Knobs can break off of radios. Windows snap out and break. Window channels can simply pop out because the materials have frozen and the glue no longer holds.
And, of course, there are those familiar cold-weather starting problems. All of which explain why more and more manufacturers now do extensive cold weather testing in Canada. Ford Motor Co. has a cold weather testing site in Thompson, Manitoba and Toyota Motor Corp. just opened a facility in Timmins, Ontario, last November.
But the granddaddy of all cold weather test centres is right here in Kapuskasing, Ont., 840 kilometres (520 miles) northwest of Toronto. It belongs to GM of Canada and it's managed by GM engineer Garry Whorpole.
"Nothing beats hot weather and cold weather extremes," says Whorpole. "If a car is going to falter, it's going to be in very cold weather or very hot weather. So here, we're testing the extremes, hoping to learn something to prevent something from happening over five or six years in a more regular environment."
There certainly isn't anything regular about Kapuskasing weather. The daily mean temperature for January is -23C. From December to the first of March, the mercury creeps above freezing for only an average of seven days. It's not unusual for the temperature to hover at -40C for weeks on end. And the record low, recorded in January, 1935, is -47C. Without factoring in the wind chill. Of which there is plenty on most winter days.
But 34-year-old Al Dixon doesn't mind. He's lived his whole life in Kapuskasing, a Cree name meaning "bend in the river," and every winter he's one of 100 or so seasonal workers involved in testing vehicles at GM's Cold Weather Development Centre. His job: among other things, cold start, with several other workers, dozens of vehicles each morning. Sometimes he and the rest of his crew change 160 batteries a day. Then they take those vehicles out onto a test track and abuse them, trying to squeeze out driveability problems.
"It's a great job," says Dixon. "The best thing is that over the years we see the things we log in these log books get fixed. So we feel like we're really doing something."
The two main activities at the centre involve cold weather starts and related testing for some 200 vehicles each year, and cold weather durability tests for an additional 60 or more vehicles.
In the latter, technicians and drivers not only record data from on-board computers, but also log the results of their vehicle abuse. That is, the testers try to replicate two years of typical usage in a test period of about 10 weeks. So they run the vehicles through 11 different test loops, stopping and starting, and frequently slamming doors and hoods, cranking up fans, turning down mirrors...cycling anything and everything that moves and operates. And, of course, they also run tests on snow? and ice-covered obstacle courses.
"Our winters up in Kap. are such that 99 per cent of North American vehicles will not experience a winter as severe as here," says Whorpole. "So if you can survive Kap., basically you can survive anything anywhere."
That's by design. GM of Canada first began serious and extensive winter testing in 1968, but 30 years ago it was all a pretty makeshift affair. A handful of engineers tried cold-weather starts in the parking lot of the Kapuskasing Inn, recording their data with the instruments in a large van that had previously been used to develop hot rod automobiles.
Soon, though, then-GM of Canada engineering director Dick McLaughlin, nephew of GM Canada founder Sam McLaughlin, recognized the value of a permanent cold weather facility. He assigned a young engineer named Gerry Malloy the task of doing the research to justify the expense, and then to make the business case to senior GM management.
"At the time there were a lot of small groups within the company off doing testing of their own," says Malloy today. "They may have gotten what they needed, but we felt that by putting everything together there were some real economies of scale and some real opportunities for real learning."
They chose Kapuskasing not just for its extreme weather, but also because it is relatively near GM
Canada's Oshawa headquarters and the parent corporation's head office in Detroit. They also needed a place accessible by air, highway and at the time by rail. And they needed a place that could accommodate an influx of dozens of engineers each year. That meant hotels and restaurants.
Kapuskasing, a town of 9,500 with a pulp mill as its major employer, was perfect.
While GM's Cold Weather Centre became official in 1971, construction of the extensive facilities began in the summer of '72 and the official opening came in February '73. Today, the permanent facility covers 159 acres and includes a 1.9 km. oval test track and a variety of buildings that include 19 vehicle work stalls, offices, a data acquisition centre, eight cold cells (giant refrigerators for testing vehicles in completely controlled environments), work yards and even fuel dispensing stations.
GM's testers spend their days and nights assessing cold cranking, cold starting, driveability, heater performance, front and rear defroster performance, tires, brakes batteries and various components, and the abilities and capabilities of advanced braking, traction and stability control systems.
The facility has also had a hand in dramatically improving battery performance, in the development of multi-grade oils for winter use, in improving heater performance, and in ensuring that electronic components and systems work in extreme weather. Of course, there is also the essential work related to making sure your car starts when it's -30C.
"When it was -30C back then (in 1971)," says Malloy, "if you could get a car started in 30 seconds it was more than a competitive product. Today, if the temperature is down to -35 or -40, it will probably start in five seconds. And if it doesn't, it probably won't start at all."
12-24-2008, 10:17 PM
#26
Member
Join Date: 03-30-2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 78
Today, if the temperature is down to -35 or -40, it will probably start in five seconds. And if it doesn't, it probably won't start at all
Unfortunatley, I'm the latter.
Anyways, in light of the GM Test facility, it is surprising that the SS doesn't have a block heater...of all the Canadian GM vehicles I've owned over the years, the only one that didn't have one on it. Not that it possibly would've helped in this case (if it is a frozen fuel line as I suspect) but still something you think that was mandated by GM Canada, even if its a dealer installed accessory before sale.
Happy holidays to all....
Unfortunatley, I'm the latter.
Anyways, in light of the GM Test facility, it is surprising that the SS doesn't have a block heater...of all the Canadian GM vehicles I've owned over the years, the only one that didn't have one on it. Not that it possibly would've helped in this case (if it is a frozen fuel line as I suspect) but still something you think that was mandated by GM Canada, even if its a dealer installed accessory before sale.
Happy holidays to all....
01-01-2009, 03:18 AM
#27
Member
Join Date: 03-30-2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 78
Finally got the SS back.
After 10+ days without it, finally back in the fold.
After finally giving up about a week ago in trying to start it for 4 days, I had to wait for last weekend to tow, as the dealer wasn't open since Christmas Eve. It got towed there Saturday, they didn't look at it until yesterday (Tuesday), then the battery was so bad it didn't hold a charge so they couldn't get it in the shop. They had to get a different tow truck to move it 100 ft into the shop, as the lot truck would've pulled off the front end, being so low. So it finally gets inside last night. After repeated calls today, I finally get the word...it was flooded. New plugs, oil change (which it was scheduled for already, prior to the starting issue) as gas was in the oil. I had to call a couple more times to get them to tell me when it was done...a bit of a hassle after the last 10 days without a car.
Battery's fine, everything seems to be fine. The did another reflash of the ECM for the brake issue, and looked for a rattle which I thought was the door, but appears to be the header panel/sunroof upon further investaigation after it left the shop. Due to fact that a 3 hour job took 3 days, they threw in the oil change for free. All the new spark plugs etc was warranty covered.
I am a bit leery, I assume they put in synthetic, and I assume they put in proper plugs. There aren't too many SS's around here/through that dealer, and given that they seemed to be rushing a bit today, I'd hope they didn't cut any corners.
Also, I am trying to figure how it flooded...I assumed through all thist that something had froze that night 12 days ago. Turns out it was flooded. Having never flooded a car (even the first one I had 17 years ago that had a carburator) I didn't know the signs I guess...but given the events that night, have no idea how it got flooded. Could the cold have had something to do with flooding the engine?
The only thing I can think of, is when my wife pulled into the driveway that cold Friday night, while getting out of the car/putting parking brake on, she was inadvertantly stepping on the gas pedal, as 12 hours later that car never started again until today.
Anyways, all is well.
After 10+ days without it, finally back in the fold.
After finally giving up about a week ago in trying to start it for 4 days, I had to wait for last weekend to tow, as the dealer wasn't open since Christmas Eve. It got towed there Saturday, they didn't look at it until yesterday (Tuesday), then the battery was so bad it didn't hold a charge so they couldn't get it in the shop. They had to get a different tow truck to move it 100 ft into the shop, as the lot truck would've pulled off the front end, being so low. So it finally gets inside last night. After repeated calls today, I finally get the word...it was flooded. New plugs, oil change (which it was scheduled for already, prior to the starting issue) as gas was in the oil. I had to call a couple more times to get them to tell me when it was done...a bit of a hassle after the last 10 days without a car.
Battery's fine, everything seems to be fine. The did another reflash of the ECM for the brake issue, and looked for a rattle which I thought was the door, but appears to be the header panel/sunroof upon further investaigation after it left the shop. Due to fact that a 3 hour job took 3 days, they threw in the oil change for free. All the new spark plugs etc was warranty covered.
I am a bit leery, I assume they put in synthetic, and I assume they put in proper plugs. There aren't too many SS's around here/through that dealer, and given that they seemed to be rushing a bit today, I'd hope they didn't cut any corners.
Also, I am trying to figure how it flooded...I assumed through all thist that something had froze that night 12 days ago. Turns out it was flooded. Having never flooded a car (even the first one I had 17 years ago that had a carburator) I didn't know the signs I guess...but given the events that night, have no idea how it got flooded. Could the cold have had something to do with flooding the engine?
The only thing I can think of, is when my wife pulled into the driveway that cold Friday night, while getting out of the car/putting parking brake on, she was inadvertantly stepping on the gas pedal, as 12 hours later that car never started again until today.
Anyways, all is well.
01-01-2009, 03:46 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-01-2008
Location: arlington texas
Posts: 2,762
glad to hear you got it back
and now its in working order
hope you dont have this issue
anymore.. didnt know u could
flood a 09' car w/ all its electronic
stuff. i could see a carbrated car
having that issue, but not a HHR
and now its in working order
hope you dont have this issue
anymore.. didnt know u could
flood a 09' car w/ all its electronic
stuff. i could see a carbrated car
having that issue, but not a HHR
01-02-2009, 10:02 AM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-27-2006
Location: Kingsville On
Posts: 732
[QUOTE=CGYHHRSS;342067]Finally got the SS back.
After 10+ days without it, finally back in the fold.
I finally get the word...it was flooded. New plugs, oil change (which it was scheduled for already, prior to the starting issue) as gas was in the oil. /QUOTE]
Just what I said in post #6 pull out your dipstick and smell it for gas once your oil gets thined out you have no compression.
After 10+ days without it, finally back in the fold.
I finally get the word...it was flooded. New plugs, oil change (which it was scheduled for already, prior to the starting issue) as gas was in the oil. /QUOTE]
Just what I said in post #6 pull out your dipstick and smell it for gas once your oil gets thined out you have no compression.