Water for Gas
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
how about synthetic gasoline from air (captures CO2) and water? From Los Alamos National Laboratory:
http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/f...story_id/12554
Above page has a link on the righthand side to a White Paper authored by the scientists who came up with the theory.
http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/f...story_id/12554
Above page has a link on the righthand side to a White Paper authored by the scientists who came up with the theory.
This sounds promising if scaleup is realistic.
New Member
Joined: 06-29-2008
Posts: 19
From: Tennessee
You can't get more energy out of a process than you put into a process. We get net out of energy from gas because the sun put millions of years of energy into the oil before we ever got it out of the ground.
It takes more energy to separate the water and the hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen. Therefore it is a simple fact you're not going to be able to do the separation "on board" and get any kind of gain.
I have a friend playing with "hydrogen injection right now" He separates and collects hydrogen in a tank in the garage by passing a current between two steel plates in the tank. Somehow you plumb this into the vacuum system on your engine and it allows you to dial back the gas mixture. Fool the PCM into not compensating and you have a net MPG gain.
I'm still skeptical and I think his electric bill will probably go up more than his fuel bill will go down.
Plus there's the possibility of blowing yourself up.
Senior Member
Joined: 10-02-2005
Posts: 1,245
From: VA
I use the "burrito gas" system. 
Method: Eat plenty of burritos; get the butt end of an enema tube.... Connect the other end to the intake....
With the "proper" diet, the methane gas will increase HP and gas mileage considerably!!
'Bout as scientifically founded as some of the recent "solutions" I've seen.
Method: Eat plenty of burritos; get the butt end of an enema tube.... Connect the other end to the intake....
With the "proper" diet, the methane gas will increase HP and gas mileage considerably!!
'Bout as scientifically founded as some of the recent "solutions" I've seen.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
I only took 1 year of chemistry (I was a liberal arts major too), but would this not be the 1st law of thermodynamics, entropy? (Hence why all perpetual motion machines are hoaxes).
You can't get more energy out of a process than you put into a process. We get net out of energy from gas because the sun put millions of years of energy into the oil before we ever got it out of the ground.
It takes more energy to separate the water and the hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen. Therefore it is a simple fact you're not going to be able to do the separation "on board" and get any kind of gain.
I have a friend playing with "hydrogen injection right now" He separates and collects hydrogen in a tank in the garage by passing a current between two steel plates in the tank. Somehow you plumb this into the vacuum system on your engine and it allows you to dial back the gas mixture. Fool the PCM into not compensating and you have a net MPG gain.
I'm still skeptical and I think his electric bill will probably go up more than his fuel bill will go down.
Plus there's the possibility of blowing yourself up.
You can't get more energy out of a process than you put into a process. We get net out of energy from gas because the sun put millions of years of energy into the oil before we ever got it out of the ground.
It takes more energy to separate the water and the hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen. Therefore it is a simple fact you're not going to be able to do the separation "on board" and get any kind of gain.
I have a friend playing with "hydrogen injection right now" He separates and collects hydrogen in a tank in the garage by passing a current between two steel plates in the tank. Somehow you plumb this into the vacuum system on your engine and it allows you to dial back the gas mixture. Fool the PCM into not compensating and you have a net MPG gain.
I'm still skeptical and I think his electric bill will probably go up more than his fuel bill will go down.
Plus there's the possibility of blowing yourself up.
All that said, most likely you are correct. I won't hold my breath waiting for a "bolt-on" system for my HHR
Senior Member
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 288
From: Uniontown, KY
waterforgas and all of the other run your car on water sites are somewhat based on reality. they are browns gas generators. yeah they will produce point of use hydrogen that your intake will suck into the motor. prob is that 1)most of them use glass mason jars as the catalyst tank and point of use storage tank. not that safe. 2) you have to turn the generator on and let it produce a set amount before starting your car 3) most let some water vapor escape with the hydrogen and it gets pulled into the engine 4) it is not more efficient than gasoline, they include waste heat energy as a reason that gas is inefficient 5) you still need gas to run the car with the browns gas generator. So i gues theoretically if it created enough hydrogen and if your pcm would adjust itself to dial back the amount of gasoline being shot thru the injectors to compensate for the amount of hydrogen present it might add a few percentage points to your mileage. but i dont want to strap a mason jar full of hydrogen to my car and find out lol
Senior Member
Joined: 06-05-2008
Posts: 334
From: Puyallup (pew-al-up)
Our local disgruntled, ex-government scientist has designed a safer setup that fits in a small battery compartment. Checkout his website: www.greenfreedomfuel.com and give him a call.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
Our local disgruntled, ex-government scientist has designed a safer setup that fits in a small battery compartment. Checkout his website: www.greenfreedomfuel.com and give him a call.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
waterforgas and all of the other run your car on water sites are somewhat based on reality. they are browns gas generators. yeah they will produce point of use hydrogen that your intake will suck into the motor. prob is that 1)most of them use glass mason jars as the catalyst tank and point of use storage tank. not that safe. 2) you have to turn the generator on and let it produce a set amount before starting your car 3) most let some water vapor escape with the hydrogen and it gets pulled into the engine 4) it is not more efficient than gasoline, they include waste heat energy as a reason that gas is inefficient 5) you still need gas to run the car with the browns gas generator. So i gues theoretically if it created enough hydrogen and if your pcm would adjust itself to dial back the amount of gasoline being shot thru the injectors to compensate for the amount of hydrogen present it might add a few percentage points to your mileage. but i dont want to strap a mason jar full of hydrogen to my car and find out lol
I should really start making these and selling them...
Ahh wait....i already get 40/28 hwy city in my SS and I have a SOUL!