silverstreet

I've decided to take the advice of American & Proud and do the upgrades he suggested including a cam job.

I have the K&N FIBK Air intake, I will have the ZZP longtube headers and downpipe which will connect to a magnaflow catback, and I plan to do the Trifecta mail tune after everything is complete including suspension(eibach pro-kit lowering springs with front and rear sways/new kyb excelG struts and shocks) and TWM short-shifter and over-sized tires and wheels. Not to mention other non-performance upgrades.

My main question is what type of gains will I see from this set-up? Will the cams, which with retainers, neutral balance shafts(not sure if I need these) and new valve springs will run 1k plus not including labor. Is the LE5 cam upgrade worth it?

Would love to hear from people who have installed them or anyone with knowledge of power upgrades. I have read in many cases that cams only give power upgrades in certain rpm ranges, being I don't plan to be redlining or racing, I just want more power, will these cams help in most rpm ranges?

I have all of my suspension parts and will post pics when finished next week. I plan to do the full exhaust and air intake the following week and the cam job in the very near future. I've said I don't want to go the supercharger or turbo route but there is a possibility I will do one of those options this next summer. So the neutral balance shafts may be necessary but I'm not sure if one can upgrade to a sc or turbo without them.

Basically, is the cam job, not knowing if I will do s/c or turbo in future, worth it with just the upgrades I listed?

hhrfreek

I will start by telling you that you DO NOT want neutral balance shafts/balance delete. Your engine will vibrate your teeth right out of your face! The vibrations this engine makes at around 3k rpms is terrible without balance shafts. Revving over 7k is not a problem with balance shafts. 72-7400 rpms was fine for me and probably you as well since that is likely not going to be a sustained rpm zone. I removed them because I was planning on revving 8k rpms, but the absence of bs subsequently made the car an annoyance for dd.

As for the cams you will notice higher rpm power ~4k+ especially with a full exhaust. Without adjustments it was very noticeable to my butt-dyno and also my data logging times, but I was also SC at the time so my gains were greater than NA. The e67 pcm has VVT tables, but I never got a chance to dyno tune with those like I wanted to. There is very likely more power to be had with the cam phasing. If you plan on dyno tuning to get the most out of your setup, then yes I think they would be worth it.

If I could suggest anything though regarding exhaust, I liked the sound of the header, downpipe, stock cat-back the most. The header/dp added the aggressive note I was after while increasing performance...cat-back power is nil and may be a bit loud with a header/dp.

Also, SC setups are quite easy and yield an easy 60-80 whp. This is the best upgrade for all rpm ranges. You will have a super flat tq curve. I personally would suggest this as a power adder, though together the cams and SC were great together if you're doing both.

Also if you run oversized tires you will notice a loss in acceleration. I bumped up to a larger size 225/50 17 and noticed a decrease in acceleration and the wheel and tire combo I put on were each 5lbs lighter too. Not a big deal if you are adding a lot of power, but in stock form the car will certainly feel much slower. The car was noticeably smoother though with the larger tire and I did like that.

silverstreet

Hey hhrfreek,

thanks for the lone reply. Prepare for a crapload of a response.

Glad I asked because the neutral balance shafts were on my list, and I won't be passing 7k often so they are off my list now. I definitely don't want major vibrations as this will be a daily driver not a race track car, although on my title it calls the hhr a van. Speaking off vibrations, I wanted to buy the TTR engine mount and the prothane tranny bushings, would the engine mount also cause unwanted vibrations as a dd? I'm assuming the engine mount is more for a race build but would it have any pros and cons on a moderately souped up dd?

I forgot. Should one pay the extra 40 to get the titanium spring retainers over the steel?

That's a question I was hoping the TTR site would of listed, or maybe I'm such a newb to power upgrades I'm just in over my head. What exactly is "phasing" to get more power out of the cams? Is phasing the dyno-tune, and is dyno-tune the actual act of putting your auto on a dyno-tuner and having a qualified person doing the work or is it just tuning and something I could do on my own through trifecta? What is the cost of this phasing? I've looked high and low for dyno-tune shops in my area and can find none. I could ask my mechanic I guess.

OK. Is there a better option then a full catback system? So for sure go with the cat on option with the down pipe so I'm not too loud?

You sold me on the sc although my mechanic said it could bring way too many negatives, I'm assuming he means blowing things up or wearing out other parts quicker but we really didn't get into the conversation because I didn't think it was a valid option. I just thought a turbo would be a better option but prices and install issues looked to be too much for me. After the cam and tune, what do I all need for a sc? What and where is the best, not necessarily the biggest, but the best sc option price/performance wise? Labor time ect?
If affordable I would definitely be installing one in feb of 2013 after all the other work is done. I am not one to shy away from more power if the price is right and the upgrade is fairly safe.

I should of used a better term. Being I'm waiting to see how low the eibachs lower the hhr, it shouldn't be much from what I've read, I'll be deciding my tires sizes then. I want a meaty wide look but will factor in performance loss and decide then.

Awesome info, thanks. Leave it to a fellow Wisconsinite to help another.

I'm just trying to get my head around costs and time so more info on phasing, sc costs, dyno and a different catback would be appreciated again.

C

silverstreet

OK. Checked out your SC thread and found the TTR supercharger. When choosing the stage 2 option it goes to about 2800 cost. Now a few things. First off, I saw you mention building up a sc for cheaper, what is the best route to just build up a sc piece by piece to cut this cost some? Is there any site I can go to find all the parts I need without getting lost or should I use the TTR list of parts included and search for them individually?
Second, should I just wait on the KN air intake being the sc kit will include this. Any air intake advice assuming I go the sc route?
Boy was I wrong, the sc route is much cheaper and understandable then the turbo route.

Sorry for all the questions I'm just excited now knowing I can actually afford to go sc-ed.

hhrfreek

ZZP not TTR for the kit. A&P did a really good job finding all the parts needed for a lot less. I would seek out the parts and piece together what you need. Many kits go on CSS all the time so look there. I think a user Mongorat has takeoffs for sale often in the classified section on CSS. Yes wait on the intake as you will need to devise your own for the SC. Don't worry ask away. You haven't asked enough questions yet...lol you will see. It is a bit overwhelming at first, but just research and ask when you need any advice and you will understand how everything works and what is needed in no time.

silverstreet

Yes ZZP not TTR, I get those mixed up.

Well I will give A&P a message and get some advice from him on where to look, or give a look at his threads to see if he has some relevant info on this subject. I got 2-3 months to look so no hurry, but it's always nice to have what you need now rather then later. If a person can save damn near half on parts prices there is no reason to go any other route.

Will wait on air intake.

I'm assuming CSS is the classifieds here. Don't see anything now but I do see a few people looking as well.

I can imagine more questions will come. The one advantage I have over some is I have a honest mechanic who's shop is a hop and a skip from me and he charges me less then 50% of market hourly rates and almost always has time and all the tools. He builds hotrods and choppers so he has a lot of experience with customizing.

It's amazing how much one can customize and accessorize something. I'm not much of a car guy, I ride sportbikes and have a few beaters for winter, but the HHR has that look I like and it drives great for me so I think I will make this my second project auto(my first being a 73 Nova which was already powered up for me, I did all the other work myself being a ex-body guy, sold it in 09 for almost 10 times what I paid for it. Who can afford 8 MPG daily driver nowadays? Not me.

Thanks for the time. Will start a build thread soon.

sleeper

"I'm assuming CSS is the classifieds here."

Nope, former sister site

CSS = www.cobaltss.net

silverstreet

Thank you sleeper. I believe someone told me this somewhere but I forgot.

American & Proud

You mention Lone Reply, mainly thats because hhrfreek I think is the one and only HHR guy to have added them to his HHR when he had it.

I figured best to let him reply, I bought his cammed head from his build and would have pretty much just typed out all the things he has posted and that he and I have talked about about them. So I was giving him time to respond to your cam questions.

I have his but not installed yet so better to hear from the man who actually ran them directly I thought.

There is only a handful of us HHR guys that have done or are going to do the supercharger swap, even less that are willing to pay the cost for actual Performance.

HP cost money, always has, always will.

As I and others have mentioned, your gonna find ALOT more info on the cobaltss.net forums for Performance related topics/ideas and actual How-To's on performance modding our Ecotec motors. The Cobalt owners just do alot more performance mods/engine builds than us HHR guys seem to do.

Bits and pieces of info are here, but there really is ALOT more performance info on these motors on the Cobalt forums for us to use and learm alot from.

I'm going for it myself at a slow pace, Cammed head swap, header and downpipe, Supercharger install, dual pass end plate, option B tank, just took my time to find as much info as I could and slowly collect my parts over time.

You can put your "Kit" together alot faster than I if your wallet is ready for it, I bought a part here or there when my wallet could handle it. I did get some extremly good deals on parts as I was not in a hurry to buy, when something I needed/wanted came along at a good price, I jumped on it and moved on to buying the next part on my list.
My SC build grew into a full blown performance build just by certain parts becoming available for a good price and at the right time. Doing it all now as one large build, And the more I read the more I knew it would be better to just do it all at once.

I had planned on adding a dual pass end plate at a later date, just to get the Basic SC
"kit" installed, but then you have to remove the supercharger, remove the intake manifold to get at the laminova cores to remove 2 of them and reverse install them and redo all the plumbing hose you had already done with the initial SC install. I got to a certain point of, best to just Wait until I had everything including upgrades I thought I could just add on later and do it all once, and be Done.

I'll answer your PM to me here,

Your best bet is to join the cobaltss.net forums, and start reading, read Everything you can find, several how to builds and just heres my build threads with lots of pics and Q&A stuff.
As your doing that, start Watching the classifieds Parts section, like a Hawk!

Good deals sell pretty darn Fast, you have to catch them Quick. But there is always another part or semi finished or even complete SC Kits to be had, a couple available currently, and your lucky, I am pretty much Done with my buying parts phase.

As far as Advice you asked about on piecing your own "kit" together, First of all, READ, find out whats actually needed, find out whats optional, and whats optional, but really should be done right from the start so your not tearing it all down just to add a dual pass later when doing it from the start will save you a ton of work adding one later on.

Once you know for sure just how far your taking your install you'll learn whats needed to get you there.

I got my supercharger and intake manifold locally on craigs list with several other parts, you can look at my build thread for more info. Bought several parts from hhrfreek and he gave me some pretty damn good deals, that I really did appreciate.

No offence to any of us HHR guys, but it's pretty much thought of as just the daily driver for most and we basically do visual mods to get the personal touch look and leave it at that. The Cobalt guys are doing alot more performance mods overall so your gonna find alot more info on them over there.

Alot are younger and living at home with mom and pa still so they dump all their money into their cars. Didn't we all at that age?

The HHR makes a great little "sleeper" tho, you'll surprize the hell out of the local ricer kids after your done.

silverstreet

Good reply, thanks.

I will be joining the cobalt site soon and doing a lot of searching and reading.

So get everything I plan to do and do it all at once, that was kinda the idea I had being I've done projects before(non-auto related) and ended up with a new part or component I wanted installed but had to redo all my previous work in order to get that new piece in. I can imagine that could get real spendy labor-time wise with a sc project.

I may just end up changing my mind again and go the new parts route or a complete sc kit if the parts search doesn't go well as my labor guy who would do the initial install will be in Cali from March to December next year and I want my "new and improved" HHR for this coming summer so need the majority of the work done by end of Feb.

I will do some research!

I'm going to take a not so wild guess and say you are panel man over at cobalt. I searched for cammed head job and boom, there was a user talking about buying some parts from Freek.

Either way this will be a fun project. Will begin a thread on here and maybe cobalt that will show progress from beginning to end.

Peace.(get BLOWN!)