Antenna options for better reception?
Senior Member
Joined: 06-07-2011
Posts: 2,180
From: SE Mich
I believe the wire wrapped around the antenna is there to control wind noise, and not for enhanced radio reception. It was one of those little things they started to do about 10 years ago without having to re-design everything. That's my $0.02...
I would second the comments about checking connections, though. I'm happy with mine, but I live in the suburbs, and don't "stress-test" it much.
I would second the comments about checking connections, though. I'm happy with mine, but I live in the suburbs, and don't "stress-test" it much.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-20-2011
Posts: 737
From: Savanna Illinois
Blue SS,
The antenna is simply a length of wire cut to resonate at the frequency for FM radio broadcast.
In the case of FM radio transmissions it works out to 19.4 inches {+/- a little depending on the exact frequency you use in the math} which is close enough to 2 meters that that length works great.
The wire wrapped around the nonconductive antenna rod is a simple cost reducing thing. Its a lot cheaper to wrap a length of fiberglass with very thin copper {or other} wire and dip it in plastic than to make a chrome plated brass telescoping whip {remember the car antennas from before the 70's?} or solid stainless steel whip.
For a while they were imbedding very thin wire directly in the windshield of cars to be used for radio antenna. I had one Ford and one Dodge that had those. the Ford worked ok but the Dodge sucked real badly so I installed an after market Ford looking stainless steel whip up on the front passengers side fender and all was well again.
The antenna is simply a length of wire cut to resonate at the frequency for FM radio broadcast.
In the case of FM radio transmissions it works out to 19.4 inches {+/- a little depending on the exact frequency you use in the math} which is close enough to 2 meters that that length works great.
The wire wrapped around the nonconductive antenna rod is a simple cost reducing thing. Its a lot cheaper to wrap a length of fiberglass with very thin copper {or other} wire and dip it in plastic than to make a chrome plated brass telescoping whip {remember the car antennas from before the 70's?} or solid stainless steel whip.
For a while they were imbedding very thin wire directly in the windshield of cars to be used for radio antenna. I had one Ford and one Dodge that had those. the Ford worked ok but the Dodge sucked real badly so I installed an after market Ford looking stainless steel whip up on the front passengers side fender and all was well again.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-20-2011
Posts: 737
From: Savanna Illinois
Not really, I figure it in meters then convert to inches and it works out the same. has come out the same since I first did it over 30 years ago. Odd how math does not change just sometimes the way you do it. These guys have a much better explanation than I would ever be able to write.
http://www.ehow.com/how_6146150_calc...utm_source=ask
2 meters works out well within the ball park and you only use half of that length for your active part of the antenna and the car body for the RF ground part. So between the antenna whip and the car body you actually have two components one active and the other counterpoise. The car body is a lot larger than one meter but that doesn't matter so long as it is at least one meter. Radios on ships use the body of the ship which is floating in the sea for counterpoise so the whole sea is actually being used for RF ground.
http://www.ehow.com/how_6146150_calc...utm_source=ask
2 meters works out well within the ball park and you only use half of that length for your active part of the antenna and the car body for the RF ground part. So between the antenna whip and the car body you actually have two components one active and the other counterpoise. The car body is a lot larger than one meter but that doesn't matter so long as it is at least one meter. Radios on ships use the body of the ship which is floating in the sea for counterpoise so the whole sea is actually being used for RF ground.
Moderator
Joined: 01-23-2009
Posts: 26,533
From: Fredericksburg,VA
I get the half-wave part. Half works almost as good as full, especially with an amp that changes the characteristics of the wire.
But 1 meter still is 39.37xxxxx inches, and 39.37xxxx inches is 1 meter, funny how that stays constant and works in both directions.
So a half wave of 2 meters would be about 39 inches (1 meter), not 19 inches. A half wave of 1 meter would be about 19 inches.
Not challenging logic, just math.
In the olden days we would try to get the collapsible antenna to near 1 meter long.
But 1 meter still is 39.37xxxxx inches, and 39.37xxxx inches is 1 meter, funny how that stays constant and works in both directions.
So a half wave of 2 meters would be about 39 inches (1 meter), not 19 inches. A half wave of 1 meter would be about 19 inches.
Not challenging logic, just math.
In the olden days we would try to get the collapsible antenna to near 1 meter long.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-20-2011
Posts: 737
From: Savanna Illinois
I get the half-wave part. Half works almost as good as full, especially with an amp that changes the characteristics of the wire.
But 1 meter still is 39.37xxxxx inches, and 39.37xxxx inches is 1 meter, funny how that stays constant and works in both directions.
So a half wave of 2 meters would be about 39 inches (1 meter), not 19 inches. A half wave of 1 meter would be about 19 inches.
Not challenging logic, just math.
In the olden days we would try to get the collapsible antenna to near 1 meter long.
But 1 meter still is 39.37xxxxx inches, and 39.37xxxx inches is 1 meter, funny how that stays constant and works in both directions.
So a half wave of 2 meters would be about 39 inches (1 meter), not 19 inches. A half wave of 1 meter would be about 19 inches.
Not challenging logic, just math.
In the olden days we would try to get the collapsible antenna to near 1 meter long.
Moderator
Joined: 01-23-2009
Posts: 26,533
From: Fredericksburg,VA
You didn't say that!
1 meter still is approximately 39 inches! You said: "In the case of FM radio transmissions it works out to 19.4 inches {+/- a little depending on the exact frequency you use in the math} which is close enough to 2 meters that that length works great."
But the discussion does point towards the "antenna amp", which is used to change the characteristics of the mast.
1 meter still is approximately 39 inches! You said: "In the case of FM radio transmissions it works out to 19.4 inches {+/- a little depending on the exact frequency you use in the math} which is close enough to 2 meters that that length works great."
But the discussion does point towards the "antenna amp", which is used to change the characteristics of the mast.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-20-2011
Posts: 737
From: Savanna Illinois
[QUOTE=donbrew;745216]{Edited Quote}
You didn't say that!
QUOTE]
Your right I did not,.... did I.
I'm not real sure how old you are but I'm 60, been messing with things electronic since the early 60's.
Been a licensed ham radio operator for around 30 years now. In between I owned and operated a small CB shop where I sold and repaired an awful lot of radios, not just CB's but also a lot of broadcast band radios. Mostly very old radios from the 20's through the 50's and some newer mostly tube rigs. Some transistor radios and stereos but mainly those were fine. A lot of car stereos were brought in but those were for mechanical repair if they had a tape player built into them not so much for electronic repair.
Sometimes I just do stuff because I know what I'm doing and figure everyone else knows what they are doing or at least know what I'm doing because I am doing it,... or something like that.
I've built countless 2 meter antennas but I prefer the 1/4th wave antenna for mobile use, mainly because they are a little cheaper and do seem to work better than a half wave. The next best is a 5/8's wave. It has to do with takeoff angle and gain.
A quarter wave can be whipped up out of scrap wire and poked directly in the SO-259 antenna connector on the back of a mobile rig and it will probably work just fine. If the wire is small enough in diameter it can be poked into a BNC connector like is used in the older hand held radios.
Mostly when I build a 2M antenna I go with 1/4th wave partly to save money on the material but mainly because there really is no gain in building a bigger antenna, unless you add a director and a reflector and make it into a beam.
For a while I had a FM broadcast band 1/4th wave 3 element beam mounted on the spotlight on my '59 Ford. It was in the early '70's and FM stereo was just coming into its own in northwest Wisconsin. It was down right amazing to tweak the antenna just a tad while driving down the road and be able to pick up stations sometimes over 100 miles away.
I had a 109” stainless steel whip on my car for my CB because that is pretty close to 1/4th of 11 meters {the CB band}. I once built a full wave dipole for the CB band but the half wave actually worked a lot better for me. Not real sure why, you might have thought the extra metal would have given me more gain.
Antennas on the early cars were a lot longer than the antennas on modern cars simply because very few folks care to listen to AM broadcast stations anymore. {whats the point unless your into talk radio?} the AM broadcast band is quite close to the 160 meter ham band but quite short antennas work pretty well on that band anyway.
When I got my first amateur radio receiver it was what we call a general coverage receiver. That means it not only received the dedicated shortwave ham bands but also pretty much everything in the HF {high frequency} range. So pretty much everything from 30 MHz to 160 MHz. At first I just had a random length of wire thumb tacked around the ceiling of the dining room.
Later I built a diamond shaped convoluted antenna that worked much better but when it got to be spring outside I hung enough wire in the tall pine trees that grew around our house to have a full wave rhombic antenna up. I was allowed to use some of my dads power tools to the 600 ohm build ladder line antenna feed, which was a big deal to the 10 year old me at the time.
With the addition of the big antenna I was able to tune in WSM in Nashville Tennessee even during the daylight most of the time. This was a big deal because we lived in northwest Wisconsin at the time.
You didn't say that!
QUOTE]
Your right I did not,.... did I.
I'm not real sure how old you are but I'm 60, been messing with things electronic since the early 60's.
Been a licensed ham radio operator for around 30 years now. In between I owned and operated a small CB shop where I sold and repaired an awful lot of radios, not just CB's but also a lot of broadcast band radios. Mostly very old radios from the 20's through the 50's and some newer mostly tube rigs. Some transistor radios and stereos but mainly those were fine. A lot of car stereos were brought in but those were for mechanical repair if they had a tape player built into them not so much for electronic repair.
Sometimes I just do stuff because I know what I'm doing and figure everyone else knows what they are doing or at least know what I'm doing because I am doing it,... or something like that.
I've built countless 2 meter antennas but I prefer the 1/4th wave antenna for mobile use, mainly because they are a little cheaper and do seem to work better than a half wave. The next best is a 5/8's wave. It has to do with takeoff angle and gain.
A quarter wave can be whipped up out of scrap wire and poked directly in the SO-259 antenna connector on the back of a mobile rig and it will probably work just fine. If the wire is small enough in diameter it can be poked into a BNC connector like is used in the older hand held radios.
Mostly when I build a 2M antenna I go with 1/4th wave partly to save money on the material but mainly because there really is no gain in building a bigger antenna, unless you add a director and a reflector and make it into a beam.
For a while I had a FM broadcast band 1/4th wave 3 element beam mounted on the spotlight on my '59 Ford. It was in the early '70's and FM stereo was just coming into its own in northwest Wisconsin. It was down right amazing to tweak the antenna just a tad while driving down the road and be able to pick up stations sometimes over 100 miles away.
I had a 109” stainless steel whip on my car for my CB because that is pretty close to 1/4th of 11 meters {the CB band}. I once built a full wave dipole for the CB band but the half wave actually worked a lot better for me. Not real sure why, you might have thought the extra metal would have given me more gain.
Antennas on the early cars were a lot longer than the antennas on modern cars simply because very few folks care to listen to AM broadcast stations anymore. {whats the point unless your into talk radio?} the AM broadcast band is quite close to the 160 meter ham band but quite short antennas work pretty well on that band anyway.
When I got my first amateur radio receiver it was what we call a general coverage receiver. That means it not only received the dedicated shortwave ham bands but also pretty much everything in the HF {high frequency} range. So pretty much everything from 30 MHz to 160 MHz. At first I just had a random length of wire thumb tacked around the ceiling of the dining room.
Later I built a diamond shaped convoluted antenna that worked much better but when it got to be spring outside I hung enough wire in the tall pine trees that grew around our house to have a full wave rhombic antenna up. I was allowed to use some of my dads power tools to the 600 ohm build ladder line antenna feed, which was a big deal to the 10 year old me at the time.
With the addition of the big antenna I was able to tune in WSM in Nashville Tennessee even during the daylight most of the time. This was a big deal because we lived in northwest Wisconsin at the time.
Joined: 03-10-2014
Posts: 7
From: Florida
Antenna Information
Hello all, I posted in the forum about two months ago about a similar problem as this discussion, except it was with the stock AM/FM/CD, not an aftermarket stereo. I resolved the problem with a Kenwood stereo, but I learned some things which I can contribute to this discussion.
-- The antenna pre-amplifier is in the black molded antenna base on the roof of the vehicle. However, you have to access the wiring for it (and the attaching screw) above the headliner. Who wants to pull a headliner just for that? So, I carefully cut a square hole in the flat area between the visors which could be covered by a blank double-gang cover which you would expect to be installed in a house. I wish I could attach a picture so you'd know it doesn't look bad at all.
-- Once I had access, it was easy to get to the pink wire which plugs into a pigtail from the pre-amp. It should have +12 VDC on it when the radio is on. One way to test it is to unplug it and then tune your radio to a station which works for you. Then while you are listening to the station, plug the pink wire back into the pigtail and listen for the reception to improve (volume will typically get louder). If it improves, the pre-amp is fine and the problem is probably with the radio.
-- Also accessible through that cut-out is the receiver for wireless entry. It is roughly the size/shape of a 1-1/2" square ice cube, and located a little left of center.
-- As for my problem, my stock AM/FM/CD would play only very local stations: not more than 7 or 8 miles from the transmitter. I drive a lot and it was very frustrating after a while. After the pre-amp was replaced (before I developed the 'trick' for testing it - the original one was OK after all), the only logical suspect was the radio itself. I ordered a replacement from a salvage yard in Ohio. Too bad it didn't work for me. Oh, I have no idea if the radio works or not: The problem is it is incompatible with my HHR. There is a label on all factory radios with an 8-digit part number. The number on the 'new' radio must match *exactly* the number on the 'old' radio or else it will not be able to communicate with the Body Control Module and, therefore, cannot be unlocked ('programmed') by the dealer. My original radio ended in 29 and the replacement I bought ended in 30. Turns out that was a waste of money!
-- Rather than continue to throw money at a difficult situation (finding an 'exact' part number match and then getting it programmed by a dealer), I opted for an aftermarket stereo. I got a Kenwood single-high stereo, and an installation kit which provides a molded plastic 'pocket' for the bottom half of the radio space. The kit came with wiring pigtails which included plugs which mated with the vehicle wiring, so all I had to do was carefully map the different wire colors (vehicle/install kit/new stereo), connect the wires, and plug everything in. The result? Perfect radio reception now. I live on the east coast of Florida between Jax and Daytona Beach, and now I get the expected stations of Jacksonville, Ocala, Orlando, and Daytona Beach. Happy once more.
-- If anyone wants a picture of the switch plate cover on my headliner, or the new stereo installation, or the part number label, drop me a line and ask for it/them. - Herb
-- The antenna pre-amplifier is in the black molded antenna base on the roof of the vehicle. However, you have to access the wiring for it (and the attaching screw) above the headliner. Who wants to pull a headliner just for that? So, I carefully cut a square hole in the flat area between the visors which could be covered by a blank double-gang cover which you would expect to be installed in a house. I wish I could attach a picture so you'd know it doesn't look bad at all.
-- Once I had access, it was easy to get to the pink wire which plugs into a pigtail from the pre-amp. It should have +12 VDC on it when the radio is on. One way to test it is to unplug it and then tune your radio to a station which works for you. Then while you are listening to the station, plug the pink wire back into the pigtail and listen for the reception to improve (volume will typically get louder). If it improves, the pre-amp is fine and the problem is probably with the radio.
-- Also accessible through that cut-out is the receiver for wireless entry. It is roughly the size/shape of a 1-1/2" square ice cube, and located a little left of center.
-- As for my problem, my stock AM/FM/CD would play only very local stations: not more than 7 or 8 miles from the transmitter. I drive a lot and it was very frustrating after a while. After the pre-amp was replaced (before I developed the 'trick' for testing it - the original one was OK after all), the only logical suspect was the radio itself. I ordered a replacement from a salvage yard in Ohio. Too bad it didn't work for me. Oh, I have no idea if the radio works or not: The problem is it is incompatible with my HHR. There is a label on all factory radios with an 8-digit part number. The number on the 'new' radio must match *exactly* the number on the 'old' radio or else it will not be able to communicate with the Body Control Module and, therefore, cannot be unlocked ('programmed') by the dealer. My original radio ended in 29 and the replacement I bought ended in 30. Turns out that was a waste of money!
-- Rather than continue to throw money at a difficult situation (finding an 'exact' part number match and then getting it programmed by a dealer), I opted for an aftermarket stereo. I got a Kenwood single-high stereo, and an installation kit which provides a molded plastic 'pocket' for the bottom half of the radio space. The kit came with wiring pigtails which included plugs which mated with the vehicle wiring, so all I had to do was carefully map the different wire colors (vehicle/install kit/new stereo), connect the wires, and plug everything in. The result? Perfect radio reception now. I live on the east coast of Florida between Jax and Daytona Beach, and now I get the expected stations of Jacksonville, Ocala, Orlando, and Daytona Beach. Happy once more.
-- If anyone wants a picture of the switch plate cover on my headliner, or the new stereo installation, or the part number label, drop me a line and ask for it/them. - Herb
Member
Joined: 10-17-2013
Posts: 34
From: California
The connector from the antenna side came off, do that it's what's causing the problem for me. Anyone know I'd it's possible to just put the original connector back on and crimp it? Has anyone has to fix the actual connector? I'm half asleep, sorry if I missed a post on this.