Absurd Mileage!
I'm in pursuit of absurd mileage. I'll be tracking every trip I make on this 16.2 galllon tank of 87 octane in my 08'ss. I'll just update this specific post as i count down to empty. I will give a estimate temperature, wind if any, terrain descript....assume no A/c unless noted, front windows cracked, sunroof on vent NO CRUIES CONTROL EVER, I'll note how many times I turn off my engine other than first start and last stop, passengers....traffic etc. 36psi tires after parked in 80 sun degress all day. The avg mpg/avg mpg is the actual overal mpg shown on the dic, and the second is the "calculated by hand-split mpg". Any suggestions or comment would be appreciated..negative or positive. Not much else to say..so here goes.
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Okay I think I have the format figured out.....
Day one... TotalMiles. TripMile. AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 12.4 ____ 12.4 ____ 43.0 ____ 43.0 ____ 39.2 ____ 39.2 ____ 465.0 ____ 635.0 ____ 75.8% _______ 27.1 _________ 44.8% 24.6 ____ 12.2 ____ 38.0 ____ 34.0 ____ 37.4 ____ 35.7 ____ 480.0 ____ 605.9 ____ 63.9% _______ 26.1 _________ 36.8% 27.4 ____ 2.8 _____ 33.0 ____ 15.3 ____ 35.4 ____ 24.1 ____ 472.0 ____ 573.5 ____ 0.0% _______ 21.0 _________ 14.7% 39.6 ____ 12.2 ____ 34.0 ____ 36.5 ____ 35.7 ____ 36.4 ____ 486.0 ____ 578.3 ____ 63.9% _______ 26.1 _________ 39.4% Not sure if it is clear or not, but this is four seperate drives during the same day. I only turned of my ignition during trip 2 and trip 4 once (memorized lights sequence) and im doing 30-45 in the city and 55-65 on the highway. Trip 3 was me house shopping, horrible mileage there! Also there was a decent wind against me on trip 4. I either need to slow to 55 or accept a loss of i think 2-3mpg. I went 60..lol |
Only an engineer would take MPG this into the details. I mean that in a good way, though. I wish I had the patience to do the same. I do think it good that you're using 87 octane for the testing, as that has been a question in my mind about the SS: how does it perform both in MPG and drivability on regular unleaded.
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Originally Posted by Lone Ranger
(Post 295418)
Only an engineer would take MPG this into the details. I mean that in a good way, though. I wish I had the patience to do the same. I do think it good that you're using 87 octane for the testing, as that has been a question in my mind about the SS: how does it perform both in MPG and drivability on regular unleaded.
I figure I would help put some things to rest. An promote effcient driving with whatever vehicle you already own and without slap this on your car gimmicks. As i get a basline, i would be willing to slap on some cheap gimmicks, and put them to the test. That bsr tune has my name on it. i should save enough in gas to buy it in a year or so...lol I just re-read my last sentance. In no way do i mean that the bsr/hahn tune is a gimmick. Just relativly cheap and significant power, no BS, and no mileage penalty...possibly better with 91....... who dosen't want more of that! |
Cleveland... what techniques do you use to improve MPG? You're obviously not doing any joyriding or quick starts.
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Originally Posted by a76marine
(Post 295469)
Cleveland... what techniques do you use to improve MPG? You're obviously not doing any joyriding or quick starts.
Basically I drive 5 below the posted limit. No cruise control EVER Use Pulse and Glide (P&G) when advantageous...well actually Pulse and Neutral-glide. Turn off my car at stoplights if I can predict a long wait. Or at any 6-way stop/ 4-way with dual turning lanes. Glide whenever possible, any hill, or elevation that wont cause more then a 5mph drop. Start-up with just the engine, I can make it to the highway from my apartment without ever touching the gas pedal ...approx 1 mile. Memorize frequent routes, for elevation, stops, lights, turns, traffic patterns etc. Never idle Never ever ever draft. The best feedback i get is simutaneously using the "vacuum gauge" and the inst-mpg. I keep the VG at -10 or under whenever possible, and the inst-mpg as high as possible while keeping the speed up.. The most difficult thing is adjusting to the combination of elevation change, 55-65, and the VG at -10. When all these meet, I get about 40mpg. It is the transition between flat sections that takes some concentration. I would like to say that I do not sacrifice my safety for this pursuit. If traffic is going 70 in a 60 I do 62ish, if they are doing 65 I am doing 57ish, if i lived in a state that would let folks drive 75 on cruise without the fear of driving by THE MAN, I would do 67. I like to keep an 8ish mph below the natural flow. I can go slower if there are 4 or more lanes. But when there are three and dense traffic ....or simply 1 or two lanes, i don't make the entire world wait for me. Usually i can avoid this as my daily routes do not put me in this situation, or I can choose a different route. I love great handling cars, and like a little power like the next guy. But that is for the next tank! I can talk for days if you want more specific answers about technique. |
Day number two!
TotalMiles. TripMile. AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 39.8 ____ 0.2 _____ 33.0 ____ 4.8 _____ 35.6 ____ 22.9 ____ 483.0 ____ 576.7 ____ 0.0% ________ 21.0 _________ 9.0% street to garage 68.2 ____ 28.4 ____ 37.0 ____ 44.6 ____ 35.9 ____ 36.3 ____ 513.0 ____ 581.6 ____ 78.9% _______ 27.3 _________ 33.0% to friends 95.6 ____ 27.4 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 36.3 ____ 37.3 ____ 485.0 ____ 588.1 ____ 74.5% _______ 27.0 _________ 38.5% from friends detour construction I was driving and talking with my best friend most of the way, I was kinda distracted from hardcore hypermiling. But a much more enjoyable drive...lol. I dropped from 36.5mpg overall to 36.3 in the 1.7 miles from the highway to my apartment due to an accident in the busiest place in ohio on saturday night. I turned my car off for a while but i had to weave through drunken traffic, a few cruisers and some 300C's with 24inch rims...lol My parking garage is 3 stories below ground, so getting in and out drops a bomb on FE. Oh well, the price i pay for security and convience. driving out is much worse because after a cold start up, using the gas to pull away, instead of just the idle will yield about 2mpg for the .3 miles. So in other words I got about 37-38 on my way TO my friends house not counting getting out of the garage...amazing what little things do to FE. |
When you can't stand going easy on it any longer and have a few horsepower moments with it, I'm interested in how it performs under bosot on the 87 octane fuel.
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Originally Posted by Lone Ranger
(Post 295599)
When you can't stand going easy on it any longer and have a few horsepower moments with it, I'm interested in how it performs under bosot on the 87 octane fuel.
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out of curiousity, why no cruise? cruise will do nothing but help your mileage
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Originally Posted by 02z28
(Post 295622)
out of curiousity, why no cruise? cruise will do nothing but help your mileage
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I have always argued that as well...
Cruise is great for maintaining a certain speed, but cruise cannot determine what is best for the hilly terrain or slower traffic that is coming up. |
right, but cruise control is your friend. i think a lot of cars have it setup so that when cruise is engaged fuel trims are leaned out substantially.
also, as far as shutting off the car, unless you're waiting for a bridge or a 5 minute traffic light, there are open loop tables in the pcm that will automatically richen the mixture upon startup for a set amount of time even if the engine is warm so depending on that mixture & how long its set to stay rich its usually not worth it for any short amount of time |
Originally Posted by 02z28
(Post 295622)
out of curiousity, why no cruise? cruise will do nothing but help your mileage
The quote above is exactly why. I want to ppprrooovveee what is real and what is just hearsay. Look at my mileage.....can YOU do better with cruise???? Try it and see....you will answer your own question :) |
Originally Posted by 02z28
(Post 295660)
right, but cruise control is your friend. i think a lot of cars have it setup so that when cruise is engaged fuel trims are leaned out substantially.
also, as far as shutting off the car, unless you're waiting for a bridge or a 5 minute traffic light, there are open loop tables in the pcm that will automatically richen the mixture upon startup for a set amount of time even if the engine is warm so depending on that mixture & how long its set to stay rich its usually not worth it for any short amount of time I am loving this already...... An experiment is bringing of all sorts of opinions... And in the end we will have learned alot..... What you say is true....but after a cold start up. I know nothing of the tables for A/F. I dont need to........ just as the first person do discover that the earth is round never saw the earth from space. I get 2mpg out of my garage....for .3 miles....then after a mile I'll be up to 40mpg.......If I stop my car, turn it off, and then turn it back on (assuming its still hot), Ill get 40mpg right out of the gate. Try it and see..... Also check out the mileage gain by using idle to get going versus the gas pedal after a cold start up. Those first .5-1.2 miles will yield 3 TO 4 TIMES BETTER MILEAGE. Quick shift from 1 then 2 then 3 ...4...5 in like 75 feet. No gas, stay way away from the gas pedal. You will hit 25+mph in no time on flat ground. I have to brake before cutting into traffic from my jobs parking lot ....and i never even came close to touching the gas. If not ...be prepared to see 2 or 4mpg...ouch. |
Originally Posted by a76marine
(Post 295645)
I have always argued that as well...
Cruise is great for maintaining a certain speed, but cruise cannot determine what is best for the hilly terrain or slower traffic that is coming up. I will use cruise control on the same routes that i drove without on my next tank so i can plot the differences. I can already tell you that i might get home from work 2.5 minutes quicker (whopee?) but i will lose minimum 3 mpg. i did get 39.2 mpg on my first day leaving work. |
As in interesting side note to the cruise control discussion here. I use cruise control on every stretch of flatter road that requires a constant speed. I'm very diligent in shutting it down when approaching hills so that I can manage the RPM's myself in the HHR.
This weekend my girlfriend and I went out to the lake and took her new (2008) VW Golf (City model) and I was driving back with the cruise control on. On a few of the mid sized hills I was amazed to see that the VW did not drastically increase engine speed to go up the hill. The RPM's actually dropped up to 200 RPM and the car slowed about 5km/h (2 mph or so.) On the larger hills it did increase engine RPM's to maintain speed but it's much more gradual than the HHR. I was really shocked to see that it actually maintained engine load and let the speed drop a few km/h. |
Originally Posted by calgaryhhr
(Post 295962)
As in interesting side note to the cruise control discussion here. I use cruise control on every stretch of flatter road that requires a constant speed. I'm very diligent in shutting it down when approaching hills so that I can manage the RPM's myself in the HHR.
This weekend my girlfriend and I went out to the lake and took her new (2008) VW Golf (City model) and I was driving back with the cruise control on. On a few of the mid sized hills I was amazed to see that the VW did not drastically increase engine speed to go up the hill. The RPM's actually dropped up to 200 RPM and the car slowed about 5km/h (2 mph or so.) On the larger hills it did increase engine RPM's to maintain speed but it's much more gradual than the HHR. I was really shocked to see that it actually maintained engine load and let the speed drop a few km/h. |
Good mileage so far
Right now I am hypermiling with my 2007 HHR LS. I am using 6.9 liters per 100kilometers which equates to 40.93 mpg city/highway combined. My tires are @ 40 psi cold. :smile:
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Originally Posted by mach01
(Post 296099)
Right now I am hypermiling with my 2007 HHR LS. I am using 6.9 liters per 100kilometers which equates to 40.93 mpg city/highway combined. My tires are @ 40 psi cold. :smile:
40 psi cold...wow, im under that on the hottest day, on the highway..... what is the terrain like near you length of average drive from cold start , to stop. Octane? Any tricks or techniques being employed. What speeds? the posted limits and what you actually drive. A/c? Window open? The 2.2 should do better then my 2.0, any mods on your car? Current odometer? Etc. Help, teach, learn contribute. Many here get in the low 20's lol. Help them out. Have you really gone more than 600 miles before a fill up? That would be sweet! |
Day 3..... I stunk it up on the way to work...it's been so windy. I rode my bike yesterday, so I didnt need to pull out the SS. I did put 42 miles on it, I only drank a half gallon out of my camelback....so thats 84mpg, can I count that??
TotalMiles. TripMile. Avg trip …...AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 108.1 ____ 12.5 ____ 13.5 ____ 37.0 ____ 37 ____ 35.9 ____ 33.1 ____ 467.0 ____ 581.58 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 22.3% to work 120.2 ____ 12.1 ____ 13.4 ____ 37.0 ____ 37 ____ 35.9 ____ 35.9 ____ 489.0 ____ 581.58 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 32.6% from work |
Originally Posted by Clevelandhhrss
(Post 296111)
Manual/automatic?
40 psi cold...wow, im under that on the hottest day, on the highway..... what is the terrain like near you length of average drive from cold start , to stop. Octane? Any tricks or techniques being employed. What speeds? the posted limits and what you actually drive. A/c? Window open? The 2.2 should do better then my 2.0, any mods on your car? Current odometer? Etc. Help, teach, learn contribute. Many here get in the low 20's lol. Help them out. Have you really gone more than 600 miles before a fill up? That would be sweet! |
This is interesting! I wish you could do a tank on almost all city driving rather than highway. Compared to my low 20's mpg, this looks amazing...but I do 95% city and average 18-20 mph. 75% highway driving is a totally different animal.
What I'd be interested in seeing is a fuel efficiency coefficient(?) (rating) based on your average mph, distance, mpg, etc., in order to extrapolate, for example, 22.5 MPG at 20 MPH into X MPG at 35 MPH. I've been trying to think of a way to do that, but got stumped. |
Originally Posted by calgaryhhr
(Post 296125)
The real trick to getting 40 mpg is to convert from L/100km to UK/Canadian gallons. The 40 mpg stated is actually 34 mpg in american gallons.
I've been bashed before for being too negative, or a know it all, so I let the conversion slide. 34.1mpg actually. I am seeking input, not just to correct others math. No problem, but as you can see ..you can do better if you have the inclination |
Originally Posted by wxman
(Post 296158)
This is interesting! I wish you could do a tank on almost all city driving rather than highway. Compared to my low 20's mpg, this looks amazing...but I do 95% city and average 18-20 mph. 75% highway driving is a totally different animal.
What I'd be interested in seeing is a fuel efficiency coefficient(?) (rating) based on your average mph, distance, mpg, etc., in order to extrapolate, for example, 22.5 MPG at 20 MPH into X MPG at 35 MPH. I've been trying to think of a way to do that, but got stumped. |
One thing to remember is that I change my techniques based on the situation. For example, if I am stuck in city traffic, but the lights are short, I'll pulse and glide(coast), ill slightly annoy the drivers behind me, but we'll all get there exactly the same overall speed, and save a little gas. What is the point of racing to a red when you are 100% sure it will be red when you arrive. If the lights are long, ill cut off the engine until the cross light turns yellow, then turn the key and pull away in 1st........2nd on a downhill of course. If the lights are not always red, or I am the last to arrive at the light (happens a lot and i like that), I'll time them and maintain a constant slow speed, coasting and braking slightly , so that when it is green i can pull away in 2nd or 3rd while the gas hogs in front of me race of to the next red light.
All this means is that for nearly any situation short of new york cabbies (honking when the cross light is still green so you will be the first through) you can get 27+mpg. Pulse and glide is great in stop and go highway traffic, even better than cruise at 65. If you do stop for a long time, just turn your car off. Hint: make sure you turn your lights to manual from auto at night so as not to alert anyone to you gas sipping ways. later |
Lol...newsflash....get up too late to make breakfast, and Mcdonalds will crush your mpg.
I actually turned my car off three seperate times in the drive through (it is actually faster than walking in at this location) and use idle to pull forward each time. I probably doubled the mileage by this alone considering it took them 12 minutes from start to finish to get me fed. It would not be much of an experiment if I just drove back and forth to work at 36.3 mpg anyway, so I actually wanted to see how bad it would be. 17.6mpg is REAL BAD.. Anyway Now you know tat if you drive a couple of miles to the local drive through, and leave you car on the entire time, after a cold start up----12-17mpg is probably what your getting. Ill mix it up this weekend with some longer trips to see if i can do a 40mpg drive at some point. TotalMiles. TripMile. Avg trip …...AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 132.3 ____ 12.1 ____ 13.2 ____ 38.0 ____ 51.9 ____ 35.7 ____ 33.8 ____ 449.0 ____ 578.3 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 25.0% to work 133.4 ____ 1.1 _____ 12.1 ____ 37.0 ____ 8.9 ______ 35.4 ____ 17.6 ____ 442.0 ____ 573.5 ____ 0.00% ________ 21.0 _________ -16.2% cold start to mcdonalds drive through and back 145.3 ____ 11.9 ____ 12.1 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.5 ____ 36.7 ____ 409.0 ____ 575.1 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 35.5% from work |
Day 5? i think...lol Mysteriously my trip to and from work has dropped from 12.2 miles to 12.1 then 11.9 and now 11.6. I think I have discovered a worm hole in route 90.
TotalMiles. TripMile. Avg trip …...AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 145.3 ____ 11.9 ____ 12.1 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.5 ____ 36.7 ____ 409.0 ____ 575.1 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 35.5% from work 157.3 ____ 12.0 ____ 12.1 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.3 ____ 33.0 ____ 407.0 ____ 571.9 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 22.1% to work 168.9 ____ 11.6 ____ 12.1 ____ 38.0 ____ 60.0 ____ 35.2 ____ 33.9 ____ 405.0 ____ 570.2 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 25.3% from work Ignore the trip mph....as the mileage racks up, the resolution of the avg mph (1mph) is screwing with the split odo (0.1mile) so this parameter will be inaccurate. |
Ok I am not trying to a smartelic but just making a statement. I drive 31 miles one way to work as of right now I am getting 32.6 mpg NOW when the wife drives we get about 29mpg but I have noticed that she likes to accelirate quikly when she takes off. Will that alone explane the milage differance?
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Originally Posted by kwboydston
(Post 297278)
Ok I am not trying to a smartelic but just making a statement. I drive 31 miles one way to work as of right now I am getting 32.6 mpg NOW when the wife drives we get about 29mpg but I have noticed that she likes to accelirate quikly when she takes off. Will that alone explane the milage differance?
As for the wormhole on I90, they filled in some potholes, decreasing the up and down distance. Potholes in Cleveland have been known to swallow cars. :eek: And.... a Real engineer would have posted an Excel spreadsheet with graphs. :p: |
Originally Posted by Jeff®
(Post 297456)
Drops to 24 when my wife drives. :roll:
As for the wormhole on I90, they filled in some potholes, decreasing the up and down distance. Potholes in Cleveland have been known to swallow cars. :eek: And.... a Real engineer would have posted an Excel spreadsheet with graphs. :p: Although funny, the potholes are not why my distance to work is dropping and or varing despite the fact that I take the EXACT same route everyday. |
Originally Posted by kwboydston
(Post 297278)
Ok I am not trying to a smartelic but just making a statement. I drive 31 miles one way to work as of right now I am getting 32.6 mpg NOW when the wife drives we get about 29mpg but I have noticed that she likes to accelirate quikly when she takes off. Will that alone explane the milage differance?
P.S. Sexist comment are for levity. Hardy Har, laugh a little were just kidding. |
Day #6 and I'm getting better at this. I fixed the worm hole, P&G on the highway is more comfortable now.
Quick story. I was going home I90west and was passed by a couple of ladies on speedbikes. They were nabbed by two cops about a mile later. Not sure why unless they were speeding until they passed me and saw the speedtrap. Oh well, $350 down the tubes. As I looked in my rearview I watched the cop almost ram the second bike due to braking late and not realizing the amount and SIZE of the gravel on the shoulder. I'm pro-law, but tend to be anti-cop. No reason to make chase like Bullit, when they clearly yielded right as soon as they heard the sirens, and then throw gravel riding right up behind them, almost losing control. Whatever. I also coined a new term for (well I've never heard it) Yo-Yo, I find that some drivers simply drive at whatever speed the person in front is driving. If i go from 54 to 63 back down to 55 then 64 so on and so forth, in the slow lane (4 clear open lanes total). Why would you attempt to drive 65 behind me??? You would thing the first time I slowed to 55 you would go around. But nooooo, you just hit the brake, then once I pulse, there they are again right onmy bumper, then the glide, their on the brakes again?? There ar 3 other lanes, and the limit is 60, the cops just laid the smack down on two people, if you want to set cruise on 65-70 (60mph zone) move left a couple lanes??? That is a Yo-Yo. TotalMiles. TripMile. Avg trip …...AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 211.4 ____ 12.2 ____ 11.7 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.1 ____ 33.5 ____ 358.0 ____ 568.6 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 23.9% to work 216.0 ____ 4.6 ____ 11.4 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.1 ____ 35.1 ____ 357.0 ____ 568.6 ____ 0.00% _______ 21.0 _________ 67.1% to Arbis, the hell with that mcdonalds 228.3 ____ 12.3 ____ 11.4 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.2 ____ 37.1 ____ 370.0 ____ 570.2 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 36.9% from work |
The only way I could think of is to become a premium member and attach the file to your post, or put it on a web site and link it.
My data base is a couple weeks of resetting the average MPG on both ends of my commute of 35 miles. Going to work was a consistent 29MPG and going home a consistent 33MPG. This was with cruise at 65. The difference I'm sure is that work is about 600 ft higher in elevation than home. |
Originally Posted by Jeff®
(Post 297764)
The only way I could think of is to become a premium member and attach the file to your post, or put it on a web site and link it.
My data base is a couple weeks of resetting the average MPG on both ends of my commute of 35 miles. Going to work was a consistent 29MPG and going home a consistent 33MPG. This was with cruise at 65. The difference I'm sure is that work is about 600 ft higher in elevation than home. |
Got to experience a "yo-Yo" on the way home from my p/t job last night; rode behind me for 3 miles making faces before chossing one of the two other lanes to pass :roll:
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Originally Posted by stovebolt34
(Post 297968)
Got to experience a "yo-Yo" on the way home from my p/t job last night; rode behind me for 3 miles making faces before chossing one of the two other lanes to pass :roll:
I was rear-ended on the highway in 2005 1 mile after getting on the highway leaving work. I pulled into the middle lane (3 lanes) on 176N 2 miles before the eastbound interbelt merge. Left lane is at a standstill, middle (the one im in) is stop and go, the right lane is flowing free at 50+. Stop and go....3 times, go..then stop..go then stop, go then stop, go then CRASH! WTF, you saw me the first 3 times. We anyway she never hit the brakes before smashing me at 35-40mph. Her head was turned 90 degrees talking to her passenger. The s10 blazer behind her (high enough to see through the car window in front if paying attention) hit the second car. The second car wasn't driving to the condition, but Yo-Yo'ing the car that hit me. I had no escape to the right or left because of traffic. The moral is she was Yo-Yo'ing me , but didnt pay close enough attention. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!! Drive your car or HHR, don't have me driving FOR YOU. 6 months of upper back and neck therapy later i began to feel like normal. |
Day 7. Yep nothing too special here. I'm still getting 42/29 hwy/city. It will be easy to get 600 miles on a tank the next time from what I've learned so far
TotalMiles. TripMile. Avg trip …...AVGMPH. TripMPH…. AVGMPG. TripMPG… FuelRange…. Projectedrange. %highway.. epa projected mlge.. Hypermile improvement over epa.. 240.5 ____ 12.2 ____ 11.5 ____ 37.0 ____ 37.0 ____ 35.1 ____ 33.3 ____ 332.0 ____ 568.6 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 23.1% to work 252.7 ____ 12.2 ____ 11.5 ____ 38.0 ____ 81.3 ____ 35.3 ____ 39.8 ____ 327.0 ____ 571.9 ____ 75.80% _______ 27.1 _________ 46.9% from work |
Originally Posted by Clevelandhhrss
(Post 297702)
I'm pro-law, but tend to be anti-cop.
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Originally Posted by Lone Ranger
(Post 298265)
How disappointing. Why don't you like us? :nuts:
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