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Would you like to help GM? Here's how!

Old Nov 19, 2008 | 01:41 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by solman98
Sorry, but I don't buy the least expensive item I can find. YOu are correct, you can't have it both ways. And sooner or later, you won't have to worry about that at this rate. But when we give tax breaks to every country out there and not support our own..... Well you choice is going to be limited. Cause it just won't be here. Sad to see that we have been willing to give other countries tax breaks, but yet they refuse to give us any, or even sell our products (limited as they are). You mention TV's, well who makes a TV in the US? I belive no one. Have I ever owned a US built TV? Yep, and still have it. THe crap that come from overseas doen't not have the same quality these days. But that is not the point. We tax them what they tax us. If that makes their prices go up.... THen maybe that will open the doors for compainies to start once again building in the US. Not just the automaker. Years ago, if you wanted a Sony, you paid for it. Now it's the same price as a "wal-mart" brand. Probably made in the same factory.

As far as build quality of my HHR. 2+ years, no problems at all. Not even one brake squeal. So I think it does have the build quality of a Caddy, just not the refinements of a Caddy. Those that think toyota is still the same automaker they were in the 90's is just fooling themselves. With over 1 million recalls a year, yea toyota is the bomb...... But that is that perception. I have over 1250 vehicles in my current fleet, all US (more than just the big 3). For GA we have more than 8000. So I see more than just my personal POV's maintenance. Some people just like to "rag" on the US cars. SOme of the things are just downright stupid IMO. I've seen people complain that the wipers need a 1 second longer delay.... But think it's nothing when the transmission jumps out of gear in their 07 Civic. The dealer will happily take care of that for them. I've owned my share of imports, 4 honda's, 3 mazda's. All of them went into the shop a couple of times for warranty or non warranty repairs. No breakdowns with the HHR. Well I guess there was one, I did have the A/C growl and had that one hose replaced. But that was not a problem, just a noise they took care of. Damn GM......

Would a bailout help the automakers..... If they get it, they better look to what people want/need to buy. And not just today. Sure gas prices have come down to under $2 a gallon, but everyone knows that it will not stay there. The trucks and SUV's everyone wanted 10 years ago, is over for the most part. People got tired of spending $100+ to fill up and realize that only took them about 350 miles.

Build quality of a Rav 4, Scion or a Versa.......lol: That made my day.
Our cities and Staes are more than willing to gove tax breaks to those compainies who choose their state to build plants and employee people. I see nothing wrong with that, It's called incentive. Its good for everyone.

They don't have to give us tax breaks becasue we NEED their cheap labor to compete with teir own products made with the same cheap labor!!! Its a GLOBAL economy and we are on top of the heap but things have a way of leveling out.

I would hate to see Ford and Chevy go away but I cannot support the Democratic and recent Republican idea of throwing money at a problem.
35 Billion without ANY changes in business model is crazy. No bank will loan them money, no one will buy thier bonds........I wonder why....Actually I know why. We need those companies but we do not need 30 a hour plus plus plus for every employee and generous bonuses for management WITHOUT RESULTS....Thats how Toyota does it. Honda and Nissan. I want a judge to decide in a Chapter 11 which contracts are reasonable,

AS far as your "issues " with the Toyotas and Hondas a visit to their forums will tell you all you need to know. They are not complaining.When they do its for where a cup holder ws placed.AS far as callbacks the difference is Toyota calls back cars WITHOUT safety issues, I had a Toyota 3 years out of warrenty with 80K on it and they replaced the head gaskets because they had a bad batch in some years. I told a friend of mine who had 120K on his Toyoat pick up anf the dealer STILL replaced both head gaskets.

I know of no American car company that recalls out of warranty vehicles for non safety issues, They instead release "bulletins" . That alone made me a fan of Toyota and bought them when I could.

The HHR was dirtcheap 11k Miles fully loaded with the exception of the ashtray and rear wind deflector. Thats why I passed on the Matrix I was looking at, I have learned to love the car but would not buy another based on all the issues I and many others had that were the same. MY neighbor who was a 30 year Chrysler MEchanic and drove a Chevy and a Neon just bought a new Toyita truck. Can't say I blame him.
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 01:53 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by MWG2
No KingFrog this is not sour grapes. What US Air did to their employees was a well calculated move to end the pension and then raid it to pay excutives. It was very ugly and many excellent employees got the shaft. Since they did that I have never gotten on an US Airways plane and I fly a lot in my business.

If GM does go into Chapter 11 there will be some uglyness all around. It won't be pretty, BUT they will survive. Personally, I still hold to giving GM the loan...LOAN, not a gift or bailout but a loan that will be repaid.

I love my HHR.
I believe US Air was in trouble They can't raid their pensions. In bankruptcy a JUDGE decided which contracts will have to be voided to save a company and some of its creditors. They don;t raid anything to pay executives . That's class warfafre perpetuated by disgruntled union leaders.

IF and WHEN GM goes into reorganization it will be painful for many people for awhile but the auto companies have no choice, 25 billion will NOT generate business. Americans have no faith in buying a car who's maker or local dealership night be out of business tomorrow. Good faith reoginazation would show a leap of faith to buyers,

I worked as a tech for XEROX when Cannon was dunping copiers in US businesses, The executives would tell us Xerox may go away. I did not care because I knew THE BASE OF BUSINESS WAS STILL THERE and I could get a job with Canon or Ricoh, Instead I quit and worked for myself. and mever looked back.

Honda ,Toyota, Nissan, Hyndai will fill the gap easily. IN many ways they already have.
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 02:13 AM
  #103  
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by LT1GMC
For all you union haters out there, you do know that unions are one of the primary creaters of the middle class don't you? Thats how they came to be. The wealthy always take care of the wealthy, (IE the financial bailout), but the unions are who brought a reasonable living to the working class. If you don't think so, you didn't study your history very well. One of the reasons union workers look so overpaid and benefitted now is because because of reductions in pay and benefits in non-union sectors, in many cases because the jobs dissappeared overseas. Yeah, China does it cheaper, but how long before the Chinese decide not to work for nothing anymore? Then what, when many Americans struggle at Walmart wages, or service sector jobs with reduced demand and wages? When you can't buy a DVD player for $50 anymore, when car prices go up because there is not the competition from domestics, when the Federal deficit balloons because there are not enough good middle class jobs to support the goverment, THEN WHAT?
Unions were necessary and had their day. We nnow have federal laborl laws and OSHA. Jobs went over seas because Americans want two new cars and 3000 SF homes on 20,000 SF lots, and boats and toys........but dont waqnt to pay the American cost for them, THATS why there are no more American goods PEOPLE CHOSE TO BUY THE CHEAPER ONES...So a company that wants to stay in business has to even the playing field buy going where labor is cheap. Simple economics. We have automakers who build in CANADA AND MEXICO!!! Imagine how much an HHR would be if it were UAW made!!!

$2000-$3000 MORE........I think so, Americans don;t buy American when given the choice is the item is well made and it usually is and sometimes better.

BTW, concerning the financial bailout: Where did all those lost TRILLIONS of dollars go? That 401k money that was real green money, out of peoples paychecks, that stock that lost so much money was bought with real money. Those subprime loans for more than a homes value, well, that inflated value was PAID to someone. The fuel price doubling is a big part of what started this big mess, and that was caused by speculators, who do NOTHING but write and cash checks, making a big profit by gambling with our future. There was no shortage of fuel, no supply and demand control, only uncontrolled speculation.

It wasn't Trillions. It was 450 Billion and they went to banks to help homeowners Banls instead used the money to buy weaker banks. There were no strings attached. There WILL be if they give car makers 25 billion.
Anyone can speculate. you speculate when you buy stock. If you had a big tank in your back yord you might kust fill it with gas if you could a $1.50 a gallon. Thats speculation. MY home in VEgas triples in value because of speculators and I sold it not being an idiot amd moved to a much lower taxed state. When Bush said he would drill of shore the gas prices began to come down.



I think we should "loan" the big 3 assistance, with security agreements. Bash all you want, but GM for one has made big changes in both product as well as cost control. Hybrids, hopefully a new electric car, and like our own loved, 29mpg 260 HP HHRSS are proof of progress. Practically every community has a domestic car dealer, so this reaches everywhere.
There is no need for a 260HP HHR....See thats part of the problem. Small market and the market that car would appeal to would take 60 and 73 month loand out on it. DUMB.....THATS the real problem with the suto industry. People have such long loans they CAN't BUY a new car!! GM needs to keep the HHR, the Malibu, the volt, the Cadillac, Van, a truck and the imported Opel./Acura , the Buick LeSabre and build them with out regard to saving nickles and dimes. Spend MORE to make them reliable . Not the drive train but the fit and finish, No plastic parts coming off like my trunk lid pull
Stupid crap.....
Lean and mean and they will survive.

Pontiac should go away.
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 06:02 AM
  #104  
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No one ever talks about any companies main concern. Stockholder satisfaction. All Board of Directors have one plan and that is to make sure dividends get paid to expectations. If a loss is occurring, the shareholder should not be paid dividends, right! So was it the unions fault when GM paid dividends to shareholders when they took a loss a few years ago? No!! It was the deep pockets of the executives that made an executive decision to pay dividends when there wasn't a profit for fear of losing shareholder confidence. Oh my, let's make sure the rich get their cash. Mr. Buffet wouldn't like it if he didn't get something in his pocket and by the way we(GM Execs) may as well get some too. A really nice way to get that kind of customer satiafaction. What do you think of this Frogking. Is this where you explain that it is neccessary to keep a company thriving? It is not always about unions. Sometimes execs are slime too. The "LOAN" will benefit all as long as someone or something is allowed to put into place a solid plan to use this cash in an intelligent and well implemented way.
Quality people doing a quality job. That is what the new Big 3 are doing. If you think that the guy putting that plastic piece on your vehicle isn't proud of his job and doing a quality job, your fooling yourself. So you got some defects in your vehicle...so too have many Toyota owners, Honda owners and any vehicle owner. They all have them. Your concept that the foreign car makers are superior is absolutely absurd in tadays market. Sure GM dealerships need to recognize the need for better customer satisfaction, but don't think for one minute that GM isn't making quality vehicles. Just look at the JD Power surveys for proof.
P.S.- if you're looking for quality do a spell check will ya'
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 06:04 AM
  #105  
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OOPS...me too!!
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 06:25 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Kingfrog
Our cities and Staes are more than willing to gove tax breaks to those compainies who choose their state to build plants and employee people. I see nothing wrong with that, It's called incentive. Its good for everyone.
That's the big part of the problem right there. You see nothing wrong with giving a tax break to a foreign company to set up a cheap shop that will knock down a US company due to no tax breaks. Or force them to to close up shop here and go overseas, only to hire those same workers that are already getting the tax breaks. And guess what that gives you. Two choices for your cheap shopping trip and more US jobs gone. We have definately lost more that went overseas than come here. Yes they hire US workers when they open a shop here, but that's about as far as it goes to help our economy. You know, not everyone needs to have a 50" flat panel in the living room.

Now I'm not say the automakers are free from blame. The UAW needs to go away completely. They have a change in place, and that will help many years down the road. But those unskilled workers that already have those jobs will reap the benefits of an overpaid salary and all the benefits the UAW gives them. Can't change the past, but to have a future, we will have to do something.

I visit a few forums, not as much as I used to. Work keeps me busy and I get the service bulletins from every auto maker worldwide. So if the toyota forms only complaint is the cupholder. Just shows the blinders on.
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 06:50 AM
  #107  
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Is this how foreign car makers employ North Americans. Could a family survive a part time job?

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/1...-kentucky.html
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 08:02 AM
  #108  
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Granted a little dated, but:

Private Sector: Perceptions aside, GM, Ford can stand proud
Tuesday, December 19, 2006
By Roger Simmermaker
Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans -- especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies -- you'd never know it.

Last year, the Chevrolet Impala beat the Camry in initial quality, according to J.D. Power & Associates. And Consumer Reports just announced that both the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan scored higher than both the Camry and the Honda Accord this year.

Roger Simmermaker is the author of "How Americans Can Buy American: The Power of Consumer Patriotism" and also writes "Buy American Mention of the Week" articles for his Web site. He is a member of the Machinists Union and National Writers Union. His essay was submitted by Richard J. Bazzy, president of Shults Ford of Wexford, Allison Park & Harmarville.

After the announcement, Ford's Director of Global Quality Debbe Yeager, referring to the struggle American companies have had overcoming the perceived and seemingly untarnishable reputation of their foreign rivals, commented: "It's a perception gap."

Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you'd almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies.

The re's also the mythical perception that foreign automakers produce the most fuel efficient cars and that Detroit only makes gas-guzzlers when the truth is that all automakers -- including Toyota, Honda and Hyundai-Kia alike -- have allowed fuel economy to slide in the past 20 years since they all now sell bigger trucks and more SUVs.

Perhaps the biggest perception problem is that American automobile companies GM and Ford -- Chrysler is now German-owned -- squander all their money on plants overseas and foreign automakers build their factories in the United States. Foreign car lovers will surely point to Kia's plans to build its first-ever U.S. plant in Georgia, but they probably won't mention that they received $400 million in tax giveaways to do it, which translates into $160,000 per job.

Among the many benefits for the foreign-owned company, your tax dollars are going to be used for road improvements surrounding the complex, complete with flower beds and other beautification features. Hey, as long as we're going to allow states to bid for private jobs with our public tax dollars, we might as well make it look good, right?

And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don't know or don't want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent more than $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas.

And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn't tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3 percent, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78 percent and 74 percent, respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.

Fortunately for our benefit, the United States remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers. According to the Level Field Institute, U.S. car companies invest $16 billion in research and development annually, outpacing any other industry one could name.

Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM's combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who's counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.

Japanese companies do employ 3,600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers -- 3,600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65,000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are -- you guessed it -- Ford and GM. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft.

Ford has recently made headlines as the American automaker with the most challenges to its future, but these challenges certainly are not because they "aren't making cars people want to buy." Toyota did outsell Ford in July, but since then, Ford has reclaimed the No. 2 spot.

GM has the highest market share, increasing over 2 percentage points from a year ago, so it apparently can't be accused of not making cars people want to buy either. Ford sales also are up in Europe, and Ford doubled its sales in China, where GM has the highest market share of any automaker.

GM also reported a 3.9 percent rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, it couldn't match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM's sales rose 17 percent in October from the year-ago month and Ford sales rose 8 percent the same period.

And for all the talk about the lack of fuel efficiency of American automakers, it seems three-fourths of all automakers failed to meet Europe's improved fuel-efficiency standards intended to cut carbon-dioxide emissions. Japanese and German automakers topped the list of the study's worst performers, but according to an environmental group's study, GM's Opel division and Ford both "come out well."

In closing, I'll leave some encouraging numbers for those of us who actually like to root for and support the home team. The J.D. Power 2006 Vehicle Dependability Survey reports that Mercury, Buick and Cadillac (in that order) grabbed the No. 2, 3 and 4 spots to beat Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW and everyone else (except Lexus) in having the least number of problems per 100 vehicles.

Perhaps someday the American media will give GM and Ford the credit they deserve. And once they do, perception among the majority of the American public will rightfully change. GM and Ford aren't only doing what they should to make gains in the American market to deserve American consumer loyalty; they're also doing what they should to make gains in the markets of China, Europe and across most of the rest of the globe.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06353/747147-28.stm
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 12:35 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Cokeybill
No one ever talks about any companies main concern. Stockholder satisfaction. All Board of Directors have one plan and that is to make sure dividends get paid to expectations. If a loss is occurring, the shareholder should not be paid dividends, right! So was it the unions fault when GM paid dividends to shareholders when they took a loss a few years ago? No!! It was the deep pockets of the executives that made an executive decision to pay dividends when there wasn't a profit for fear of losing shareholder confidence. Oh my, let's make sure the rich get their cash. Mr. Buffet wouldn't like it if he didn't get something in his pocket and by the way we(GM Execs) may as well get some too. A really nice way to get that kind of customer satiafaction. What do you think of this Frogking. Is this where you explain that it is neccessary to keep a company thriving? It is not always about unions. Sometimes execs are slime too. The "LOAN" will benefit all as long as someone or something is allowed to put into place a solid plan to use this cash in an intelligent and well implemented way.
Quality people doing a quality job. That is what the new Big 3 are doing. If you think that the guy putting that plastic piece on your vehicle isn't proud of his job and doing a quality job, your fooling yourself. So you got some defects in your vehicle...so too have many Toyota owners, Honda owners and any vehicle owner. They all have them. Your concept that the foreign car makers are superior is absolutely absurd in tadays market. Sure GM dealerships need to recognize the need for better customer satisfaction, but don't think for one minute that GM isn't making quality vehicles. Just look at the JD Power surveys for proof.
P.S.- if you're looking for quality do a spell check will ya'
DIVIDENDS are a pittance of money I get to REINVEST in a company. DIvidends INVITE NEW investment. You have it backwards and have been reading to many UNion Newsletters. UNions don;t pay dividends to their membershio t ehy COLLECT DUES!!!!

The defects I have had are WELL know and IGNORED. Toyota RECALLED vehicles long out of warranty to fix a bad batch of head gaskets.....THATS CARING FOR THEIR BRAND and theur customers. No American automaker would do that, I had to go back to chev TWICE to get my sterring issue replaced finally and the first time they told me it would be three weeks (apparently because I did not buy it there), SOrry JD Powers only surveys NEW models. They don't survey a two year old model Camry against a new model Malibu.

I have had four Toyotas, One Honda three fords and now a Checvy in 35 years, The ford 3.0 Explorers ALL had pre ignition issues in the Summer with the air going. Dealers did nothing, I NEVER had an issue with any Toyota, I had 4 runner (that had its ghead gaskets replaced out of warranty) and a Toyota $WD TRD I should have never sold for an Explorer. My father had an Implale he may as well parked at the dealer and then and still has a Camry that has never seen the dealer after the fist service.

Sorry man Forign car makers put their money into the cars not into the wmployee pockets.
Old Nov 19, 2008 | 12:38 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Cokeybill
Is this how foreign car makers employ North Americans. Could a family survive a part time job?

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/1...-kentucky.html
That;s how all NORMAL and humane businesses cut expenses staff when sales slow up. AT least they don't jus release them. They KNOW things will turn around and will need these emmployees back. There are many released American car maker employess who will never see the inside of a Chevy plant again.

I would ratehr work part time for $30 an hour then collect unemployment.Ya Think?

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