So these people were too dumb to deserve a decent job? In 2001 the auto companies were making good profits, so the workers didn't deserve some of that profit? Or should the exec's and shareholders get it all?

As far as the 36k, health and dental and no pension, guess you are not up to date as that is just what new hires into GM get due to the changes made in the last contract, so perhaps you should study up.

 

That's what it's all about Curly. Not enough support and knowledge of what is exactly going on. Free Trade() is murdering the economies.

 

"That's what it's all about Curly. Not enough support and knowledge of what is exactly going on. Free Trade() is murdering the economies."

Free Trade is not free, the scale is heavily tipped in favor of them and not us. Bill Clinton gave Free Trade Status to China then forced Most Favored Trade Status on Congress. Since then China has becme the number one importer into America and we have consistantly lost 5 million jobs a year since. I believe that is treason against the United States and Clinton should have been put in front of a firing squad for it. I believe history will show that is what the root of the problem for the REALLY Great Depression is.
Also the China Prime Minister of Defense said around 1998, "War between United States and China is enivitable. It is not a matter of if but when."
Then Loral and Bill Clinton gave them guided missle technology. China had a 90% failure rate on their rockets for the sattelites. When they sent them up they would not go in the correct path and had to destroy them. Loral gave them the technology with Bill Clintons full approval against the advice of every cabinet member. Now China has a 90% success rate on the rockets and they are putting many sattelites in space for us. The problem there is that is the very same technology we use in our guided missles, now China can punch in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and that missle will land with in 4 feet of its target. Once again if any of us had gave that technology to China we would have already been put in front of a firing squad for treason and rightfully so.

For those that think free trade is free then I hope that you can work for the same 46 cents per hour that China does. I know for a fact that the Boeing 757 tail sections went to China and the quality was down right scary but the workers got paid 46 cents per hour and that is much cheaper than can be done here. 46 Cents per hour would not even buy the gas for me to get to work even if my car was paid for and it did not need insurance. People we are not comparing apples to apples here. Actually it is probably less than 46 cents per hour because that is assuming they only work a 40 hour week as they were making $80 per month. I hope that you can feed your family with that much because if you give your jobs away then that is what you have to compete against.

Yes, GM emplyees and management are way over paid in my opinion but unless you can work for 46 cents per hour then you had better support America. This is not about GM, Ford or anything else it is about America.
Free trade means the sale (jobs) goes to who ever can build it for the lowest price. That is just fine if we are all on the same dollar system and tax system. We are not and it is not even close.
Another really huge problem is that when you buy something from America then the people who built it paid Social Security, Workmans Comp, and taxes to support Big Brother. When you buy from a Foreign Country you are siphoning money directly out of America to them. The only money collected there is sales tax and that is a small percentadge of the total picture.
One of the things that nobody talked about in the election is WHY America is in such bad economy. Everyone agrees we are losing 5 million plus jobs a year and it has to stop or it will get really bad. Nobody said where those jobs were going. Well let me tell you, they are going to China and it will put America into a depression if we do not turn it around. Period. No if ands or butts. Then you will have to work for the same as China or you do not get a job. Simple as that.
I am not saying we should not be buying from China or anyone else but I am saying that is it should be taxed enough to cover all of the Social security, Workmans Comp, Unemployment etc to cover for it so the American working mans tax load is not increased even more. I am saying that unless you can work for the same pay scale as China then you are not on a level playing field. In China $80 a month can feed and support a family quite nice and here it would not pay for the gas to go to work. So we are not working off of the same monetary system or cost of living. When you buy from China then you must admit that someday we will have to bring them up to our pay or lower our pay to their level. We are headed for a depression if we do not change things and quickly. If the big three go under then it is guarenteed.
The Great Depression was because the few people who owned stock was buying it for much more than it was worth. Eventually the bottom fell out and everyone realised that they could not pay that much for it. Only a small percentadge of people owned stock then and caused all of that disaster.
Now the American worker is in the same situation. Since you can have the work done in China for less than 50 cents per hour with no Government restrictions like EPA, OSHA etc our pay (stock) is not worth what we are getting paid. The difference here is everyone in America has a job (or Stock) in America. So this could be much bigger and worse than the Great Depression. The Great Depression will not be a fart in a 30 MPH wind compared to this. How much is YOUR job (stock) worth? 50 cents? Maybe a little more?

Yes, if we give GM a bailout they will have to make consessions and yes they should anyway. They have already made huge concessions in that they are buying many parts from overseas. That is feeding the monster that wil eat you but if they did not do that they would have already went out of business. There is no way they or anyone else here can compete with 50 cents per hour or less so we have to make bigger changes. Unless we do something about the "Free Trade" then a bailout is only a temporary solution to a very big problem.
One other thing is yes we are able to get some products at a better price becuase of China but if it was at the same rate as the pay a new SS HHR would cost $250 not $25,0000 and that has not happened. Once again we are not comparing apples to apples and it is not a level playing field.

 

Good stuff, Curly. Some of the problem is that some North Americans can't figure out the "deal" of supporting each other for each others "betterment". It doesn't matter what industry, just support home grown!(not the other stuff you bunch of heads )

 

And you keyboard economists bought a car built where??

 

At least the cash went to GM...

 

Right on. That money sure looks good on my GM retirement check each month. Thanks guys.

 

I am a chevy guy, I have owned about 30 cars and most all were Chevys. 67 Camaro (2, one I still have), 68 Camaro, 67 Corvette (still have it) 68 Chevy Truck (still have it), 98 Chevy Dually (still have it) ,2008 HHR, 67 Chevy 11 Nova, were some of my favorites.
Sure my HHR may not be made in America and all many of the parts on all Chevys come from around the world but my money still went to GM and I support them.

 

From "King frog": But they WON'T COLLAPSE.....Chapter 11 is not a bad thing. The UAW WILL COLLAPSE. We are already deep into a recession and will slowly come out in late 2009. 2002 was worse then this.

10 MILLION jobs were lost in 1979!! We are not near that even with the auto companies problems (so far only 1 million) 3 million jobs would be lost if the automakers failed......still less than 1/2 of 1980's. This "recession" is not nearly as bad as 1979 when interest rates were 20%...try buying ANY or Home of car then.. Inflation was 12%.........I was there bought the T shirt.
But there are thousands of autoworkers STILL employed in this country and those companies will hire MORE workers to make up for the lack of inventory should the US Automakers have to reorganize.[/QUOTE]

When I went to work for CAL in 1987, wages were low, and the company was in a knock down fight with the Pilots Union. When I retired in 2001, CAL had gone thru " BANKRUPTCY THREE DIFFERENT TIMES." Unpresented in modern times. Point being: Chapter 11 does not mean you go out of business. It gives you breathing room, allows you to work out a payment plan to your debtors, and to restructure, streamline and evolve a more efficent company. But it took everyone involved in the company, not just a select few to make concessions. Today Cal and SW Airlines are the only two carriers making a profit in the industry.
So don't let the scare tatics of they will go out of business cause you any grief. Will it be easy ? Not at all.

Last week Steve on Fox and Friends said: "In his little town, there are "2 Honda dealers. And there are 25 Chevrolet Dealers"

We drove from Oklahoma to Houston last week and back, I bet there are over a MILLION CARS, BOTH NEW AND USED for sale on lots. This is one of the problems with the automobile industry, over sateration in the USA. And yet they continue to try and increase the productive rate and make in my opion, way to many cars.

My question is: How or what makes, Pelosi, Reed and Barny Frank think that they know how and what to spend my money, my childrens money, my grandchildrens money and their childrens money on, better then I ?

How is it that when elected a sentor, you suddenly know how to handle money better then the American Citizen ?

 

If you ever get a chance to make it to Dallas or Houston, there is No sign of an economic slowdown. Its more then business as usual. Its booming.