For $80 you can build your own intake.
Senior Member
Joined: 10-02-2005
Posts: 1,245
From: VA
Ahhh.... the aftermarket just loves preying on those without an education or common sense knowledge! 
Direct injection was first used by Mercedes in 1955. Do a Google search on direct injection and educate yourself before making bogus claims.
GM's first turbos were in 1962. Again....
There is no such thing as a "thermal engineer". However there are educated Chemical Engineers (see above) and Mechanical Engineers (MSME here) that do have the education and background to know what works and what doesn't and why.
Some posters above should STFU and listen and learn. You'll be better off for it.
Direct injection was first used by Mercedes in 1955. Do a Google search on direct injection and educate yourself before making bogus claims.
GM's first turbos were in 1962. Again....
There is no such thing as a "thermal engineer". However there are educated Chemical Engineers (see above) and Mechanical Engineers (MSME here) that do have the education and background to know what works and what doesn't and why.
Some posters above should STFU and listen and learn. You'll be better off for it.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
Hmmmm: "intern 8-10 years ago" Lets see where were we 8-10 years ago. DI wasn't even a thought, Chevrolet didn't have a turbo vehicle in their line up, and variable valve timing was considered exotic. I am sure you have kept up with the times being that you WHERE an intern. If you were a REAL thermodynamic engineer you understand what I said by the intake box sitting on the engine. Have you ever felt the heat coming off our engine? Also if there are any bean counters out there, heaven forbid I say this, but sometimes engineering takes a back seat to cost. It was probably cheaper to do this than route the intake in front of the computer, did ya ever this about this? Yes manufactures will cut costs anywhere they can.
Also, look at Chevrolet’s crossfire injection in the '80's, your telling me the factory did it right? How many of those cars were switched to carbs. If the factory did it perfect every time then why is the aftermarket selling billions of dollars in parts every year and why is GM selling aftermarket intake kits? I guess GM is rice now.
Also, look at Chevrolet’s crossfire injection in the '80's, your telling me the factory did it right? How many of those cars were switched to carbs. If the factory did it perfect every time then why is the aftermarket selling billions of dollars in parts every year and why is GM selling aftermarket intake kits? I guess GM is rice now.
I'm as real as they come. My favorite class was chem thermo. I had a hillarious German teacher, that sounded like that VW commerical dude that smashes japanese cars. Don't hate the engineer hate the game playa.
Bean counters are the root of all evil (my gf is a cpa)...lol
Since I manufacture "stuff" i do think about that alot.
I don't remember much of the eighties..lol to busy riding my bicycle.
I don't understand rice? Is it like corn??
GM is in the business of making money. If selling you non-cai's makes money then they will sell it. They happily swindled me out of $22,800 march 30th 2008, if they keep making hits like this, they can plan on swindling me again.
The fact that I am an engineer dosen't mean that I know everything, nor am I implying that I do. However it will be tough for you to sell myself (or anyone) engineer or elementary school dropout on a system that pumps hot air into your car under the guise of performance. If you could make a cai for $80 with out scabbing some hideous nodule atop my HHR's nose (hood) then I would buy it.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
All hail Clevelandhhrss, who's impressive resume as a thermodynamical engineer makes him an expert in engine intakes. Not to mention his intern ship of bringing coffee to all the important engineers who's stock engine intake designs could never be improved upon....WHAAAAAAATTTTTT NNNNOOOOOWWWWWWW??!!
Now what?
J/k dont get to serious, were just trying to keep you from wasting 80 bucks
Last edited by Clevelandhhrss; Jul 25, 2008 at 04:30 PM.
Thread Starter
New Member
Joined: 07-13-2008
Posts: 22
From: dallas
Ahhh.... the aftermarket just loves preying on those without an education or common sense knowledge!
Direct injection was first used by Mercedes in 1955. Do a Google search on direct injection and educate yourself before making bogus claims.
GM's first turbos were in 1962. Again....
There is no such thing as a "thermal engineer". However there are educated Chemical Engineers (see above) and Mechanical Engineers (MSME here) that do have the education and background to know what works and what doesn't and why.
Some posters above should STFU and listen and learn. You'll be better off for it.
Direct injection was first used by Mercedes in 1955. Do a Google search on direct injection and educate yourself before making bogus claims.
GM's first turbos were in 1962. Again....
There is no such thing as a "thermal engineer". However there are educated Chemical Engineers (see above) and Mechanical Engineers (MSME here) that do have the education and background to know what works and what doesn't and why.
Some posters above should STFU and listen and learn. You'll be better off for it.
Thread Starter
New Member
Joined: 07-13-2008
Posts: 22
From: dallas
Ok, I am tired of this Tit for Tat. Its time to put everyones money where their mouth is. Here's the deal.......I will build this intake and test it. By testing I mean driving around until the engine bay reaches "normal" temperature. Then the car will be strapped to a dyno with the hood closed and the normal outside fan placed in front of the car to simulate road conditions. "If" this intake makes any power (1 hp or more), then who ever takes me up on this challenge owes me the cost to build plus the dyno time cost (around $165 total). If not, I am out the time and money. Don't take me up on this if you have no intention pay.........
To keep this legal anyone can come watch the dyno. I live in Dallas.
BTW it is 100 degree here so the "heat" factor will or will not be proven.
To keep this legal anyone can come watch the dyno. I live in Dallas.
BTW it is 100 degree here so the "heat" factor will or will not be proven.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-26-2007
Posts: 1,554
From: ...
Damn,Cleveland, you have an impressive resume', and well studied credentials. I, for one, am glad you're here. You too, JoeR. I'm certainly not an engineer, or even a trained technician, but I usually take most after market stuff with a huge grain of salt because I know the manufacturers employ engineers and design professionals who do a pretty d@mn good job with the budget(s) they are constrained to work within.
And no, that guy, I'm not willing to drive two days worth to witness your endeavor to validate your concept. I do respect you for throwing down the challenge, though, as it represents confidence in your theory, and the b@lls to put it on the line.
And no, that guy, I'm not willing to drive two days worth to witness your endeavor to validate your concept. I do respect you for throwing down the challenge, though, as it represents confidence in your theory, and the b@lls to put it on the line.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-06-2008
Posts: 1,076
From: Over here
As for his initial claims of factory inefficiency...
I guess that big "black" box that sits over the "hot" engine doesn't soak up any heat right? (Heat rises by the way) And I guess that kink in the induction tube doesn't create a restriction right?
As for the kink in the tube that feeds the air box, yes, it flows less freely than a smooth tube would. However, since there's a higher air volume in the airbox, the tube doesn't have to flow smoothly, only sufficient to keep the airbox fed enough to feed the turbo.
Oh, and I have a set of credentials as well-- decades of practical and theoretical experience in mechanical and chemical engineering, fluid dynamics, computer and systems engineering, and physics. I hold a dozen patents for inventions throughout these above fields. And I have been a member of the Sears Craftsman Club since 1992. Someone give me a cookie.
Thread Starter
New Member
Joined: 07-13-2008
Posts: 22
From: dallas
Hmmm. One-way bet? If he looses, it will cost him $165, if I loose, it will have cost me $165. How is this one way? If it ain’t worth crap than I have lost right? But...........I haven't got any takers yet so apparently there is some belief.
BTW to be fair, I think the money should be given to an independent 3rd party up front.
Hmmm.... I wonder why I am so confident?
BTW to be fair, I think the money should be given to an independent 3rd party up front.
Hmmm.... I wonder why I am so confident?
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
Hardly. It's a one-way bet... if he loses, the challenger gets what? This is just more puffery from That guy.
As for his initial claims of factory inefficiency...
Yes, the "black box" soaks up some heat, but you may have noticed that it's plastic, not metal. It's not quite the heat sink you seem to think. On the contrary, being plastic, it does very little thermal transfer from the ambient underhood air, and the amount of heat sunk into the plastic is certainly offset by the (relatively) cool air coming in from inside the fender.
As for the kink in the tube that feeds the air box, yes, it flows less freely than a smooth tube would. However, since there's a higher air volume in the airbox, the tube doesn't have to flow smoothly, only sufficient to keep the airbox fed enough to feed the turbo.
Oh, and I have a set of credentials as well-- decades of practical and theoretical experience in mechanical and chemical engineering, fluid dynamics, computer and systems engineering, and physics. I hold a dozen patents for inventions throughout these above fields. And I have been a member of the Sears Craftsman Club since 1992. Someone give me a cookie.
As for his initial claims of factory inefficiency...
Yes, the "black box" soaks up some heat, but you may have noticed that it's plastic, not metal. It's not quite the heat sink you seem to think. On the contrary, being plastic, it does very little thermal transfer from the ambient underhood air, and the amount of heat sunk into the plastic is certainly offset by the (relatively) cool air coming in from inside the fender.
As for the kink in the tube that feeds the air box, yes, it flows less freely than a smooth tube would. However, since there's a higher air volume in the airbox, the tube doesn't have to flow smoothly, only sufficient to keep the airbox fed enough to feed the turbo.
Oh, and I have a set of credentials as well-- decades of practical and theoretical experience in mechanical and chemical engineering, fluid dynamics, computer and systems engineering, and physics. I hold a dozen patents for inventions throughout these above fields. And I have been a member of the Sears Craftsman Club since 1992. Someone give me a cookie.