For $80 you can build your own intake.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
I know that I am not on the same brain wave as you engineer guys are, and of course you have a much better understanding of the sciences, than I will ever have. That being said, I get the feeling that because the tube would be running from the stock air filter location, that you feel it is an underhood system, which is going to draw hot engine heat into the filter.
With the air duct just outside of the engine at the location I have specified, there is nothing but cool air that will be drawn in. I don't think that the ducting running over the engine compartment is going to be worse than the already stock air box sitting there now. If anything the air will flow faster into the system, because of the "ram" air effect, and the only bend is at the air inlet duct that will sit in the driver's side opening atop the condenser & radiator. There is already a plastic "liner" there which would prevent any hot air from rising in that location.
With the air duct just outside of the engine at the location I have specified, there is nothing but cool air that will be drawn in. I don't think that the ducting running over the engine compartment is going to be worse than the already stock air box sitting there now. If anything the air will flow faster into the system, because of the "ram" air effect, and the only bend is at the air inlet duct that will sit in the driver's side opening atop the condenser & radiator. There is already a plastic "liner" there which would prevent any hot air from rising in that location.
What you said above is the same way i am looking at it. My intention is to steer everyone onto the same page to attack the problem effectively. I am positive that what SEEMS to me (see my last post) is 178% correct...times 250...lol....j/k
I just wanted to see if everyone else thinks the same or is someone who "actually" does this gonna help us
To do the "most" with the "least" we/you/all of us should attack the most important thing followed by the lesser imortant things. assuming I know what im talking about.
1. intake air temp. seems that some crafty person needs to figure out how to "package" this under the hood, wrapped in insulation if the dreaded "heatsoak" rears its ugly head. I can imagine a trip to homer dome for a 3" diameter flexible tube, and start mocking-up the locations that can fit.
2. Chose the most direct route free of sharp bends (first), and short as possible (second), then see what can be moved, trimmed, or modified to improve over a "non invasive" tube path(third).
3. check with whatever sensor or device (maf, hpt, etc...not my expertise) that can measure the increase in air flow, and temps after hood closed "spirited street runs". This will be the science that backs up the beliefs.
4. Investigate if Hahn (only tune for the hhr ss lnf), assuming there are any benifts from the research in step #3, could make use of the air flow/temp gains with the bsr ppc. seems that there are stage kits (bsr ppc website) for other manufactures that tune for stock, and stock with exhaust. This might be a stageIII for the intake? Maybe a donation of a prototype will spur his interest? Maybe he knows already and isnt telling :), but later selling. Im rhyming now, i need to stop.
There!
Now back to hypermiling, 42.8 mpg (last 12.1 mile trip) and hopefully a 600 gallon tank of 87.
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/fuel-economy-hypermiling-47/absurd-mileage-17070/
Later
Member
Joined: 07-02-2008
Posts: 68
From: noblesville
so who wants to be the first one to pop a hole in their hood and just run the intake straight up to a cone filter above the hood? any takers?
best bet will just be to make a new intake and run it down and below the engine outside of the main bay.
best bet will just be to make a new intake and run it down and below the engine outside of the main bay.
New Member
Joined: 05-19-2008
Posts: 24
From: fontana, ca
the factory system already pulls fresh air from the fenderwell and even if you build a smoother flowing intake freeing up restriction on the turbo inlet any extra boost it might make is only going to be reduced back down by the computer opening the waste gate more. am i missing something here?
Senior Member
Joined: 03-31-2008
Posts: 772
From: CLEVELAND
the factory system already pulls fresh air from the fenderwell and even if you build a smoother flowing intake freeing up restriction on the turbo inlet any extra boost it might make is only going to be reduced back down by the computer opening the waste gate more. am i missing something here?
Senior Member
Joined: 05-06-2008
Posts: 1,076
From: Over here
Correct (and I'm not sure I see who's saying otherwise in this thread)... unless we want to take the hood off and/or move the engine to the roof, the duct eventually has to exist under the hood. Heat transfer into the ducting under the hood is of little concern (non-zero, but not enough to get wrapped up in... it's just a fact of life unless you want to try the suggestions I outlined just above, but you're going to run into other issues with the engine on your roof). The stock airbox is just a plenum that holds a volume of air... hopefully greater than the volume the turbo has the capacity to inhale, otherwise you've got a starvation problem. That plenum doesn't need to be particularly smooth-flowing, so long as it can meet the volume requirements (this is not so accurate for N/A motors, but on a turbo, the air WILL get into the cylinder whether it's flowing smoothly through the intake or not). I have no complaints about the stock airbox at this point... a quick and dirty tapemeasurement indicates it has enough volume to feed the stock turbo easily (ASSuming ~300cfm for the BW unit at full spool)... probably won't be the case for a Mitsu 20g, which can flow twice that in stock trim. However, for the stock airbox/intake setup, I would like to get my inLET air from somewhere a little cooler than the inside of the fender, and so I've been looking at how to get the tube that runs into the fender down to the lower front of the car-- I was contemplating a duct setup that replaces the passenger driving light assembly (and just go 'cyclops' on the lighting, but I'm not sure I can get enough flow through the narrow (rectangular) area in front of the tire and behind the headlight-- there's a structural wall there, along with a round brace strategically placed to make it hard to get around. We'll see.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-23-2006
Posts: 578
From: Northeast Ohio in the Lake
The inTAKE necessarily is under the hood... that's where the engine is, and so there's no way around that reality. The inLET isn't under the hood, however, and so we're talking about the temperature of the air charge entering the system, which will clearly be lower than if the inLET is under the hood as described in the OP.
You did add the "within reason" caveat, but to be clear on this...
Cooler air into the system means a denser charge into the engine (for which the ECM maps may or may not be able to take advantage). The intercooler isn't a panacea. It only helps to lower the temp of the air charge... whatever temp it may be (as in, an intercooler MAY help on some N/A motors). So, regardless of the fact that we have IC's to help with this, the cooler the initial air charge as it comes into the system, the lower the temp will be when it reaches the engine.
You did add the "within reason" caveat, but to be clear on this...
Cooler air into the system means a denser charge into the engine (for which the ECM maps may or may not be able to take advantage). The intercooler isn't a panacea. It only helps to lower the temp of the air charge... whatever temp it may be (as in, an intercooler MAY help on some N/A motors). So, regardless of the fact that we have IC's to help with this, the cooler the initial air charge as it comes into the system, the lower the temp will be when it reaches the engine.
Cooler air into the bla bla....yes denser cooler air is better. Any one with even a little engine knowledge should know that.
My whole thing is....is the added temp from having the "INLET" under the hood raise temps....after it has passed through the intercooler. I do not know, THAT is why I said he should look at the Intake Air Temps.
~~SMASHES HEAD AGAINST WALL~~
Member
Joined: 07-02-2008
Posts: 68
From: noblesville
the factory system already pulls fresh air from the fenderwell and even if you build a smoother flowing intake freeing up restriction on the turbo inlet any extra boost it might make is only going to be reduced back down by the computer opening the waste gate more. am i missing something here?
im sure it won't be to long before more tuning options become available that will allow you to make use of that extra air.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-29-2006
Posts: 123
From: L.A.
A good thing
Should a good CAI come to market, at least people with the Hahn tune will probably be abe to maximize its potential where as people with a stock tune may never get the benefits due to ECU corrections back to stock perameters.IMHO