162K Mile 2008 HHR SS Maintenance History
Hello all,
Semi-bored and extremely-boring update:
-We forgot to check anything regarding chain tension as we were taking it apart. Shame on us.
-Everything "looked perfect", including the "crappy bolt", and all the "Nylon" (?) guides. The presumably original 2008 OEM chain tensioner successfully compressed and rebounded under my thumb.. This could be meaningless anecdote, but it "looked fine". We replaced it nonetheless.
--We put in the one of the RockAuto-sourced Cloyes kits recommended above, by OldBlue, I think. Including replacing the "crappy bolt".
-What we believe to be original hoses still looked amazingly good.
-The serpentine belt, believed to be original 2008 with 162K miles, was missing large chunks. This is admirable as to belt performance, but not admirable for me as an HHR parent. It is a 3rd/4th car, go easy on me. Serpentine belt and tensioner were replaced, although with Federated parts in stock locally, not AC Delco OEM.
-We replaced the TTY (torque to yield) cam bolts.
-We gambled on reusing the TTY crank bolt, it wasn't available when we needed it to be. Public or private criticism is welcome.
Boring summary:
-Before doing all of this: 90+ seconds of disconcerting clattering on cold start - sewing machine quiet after that,
-After doing all of this: 45 seconds with 1/4 the clattering than before when cold - sewing machine smooth after that.ing l
Conclusion: Since the crappy bolt wasn't broken and nothing else "looked bad", maybe it was just a bit sloppy? Maybe it was all the tensioner?
I'm a decent former semi-pro mechanic but not an HHR/Cobalt/Ecotec expert, so I don't know what the remaining cold-temp clattering could be. Could be anything in the belt train. 99% sure it isn't trans/clutch/input shaft.throwout bearing. Overall, not that important.
Overall, I'm glad I did this to extend the life of what might be the best car I've ever owned, and thank you to everyone for their help, and extra thanks to OldBlue for some rapid-response in DMs about the importance of dealing with the "crappy bolt."
Any further advice or thoughts are welcome. This is a well-moderated forum of high quality advice, in my opinion,
Cheers!
Semi-bored and extremely-boring update:
-We forgot to check anything regarding chain tension as we were taking it apart. Shame on us.
-Everything "looked perfect", including the "crappy bolt", and all the "Nylon" (?) guides. The presumably original 2008 OEM chain tensioner successfully compressed and rebounded under my thumb.. This could be meaningless anecdote, but it "looked fine". We replaced it nonetheless.
--We put in the one of the RockAuto-sourced Cloyes kits recommended above, by OldBlue, I think. Including replacing the "crappy bolt".
-What we believe to be original hoses still looked amazingly good.
-The serpentine belt, believed to be original 2008 with 162K miles, was missing large chunks. This is admirable as to belt performance, but not admirable for me as an HHR parent. It is a 3rd/4th car, go easy on me. Serpentine belt and tensioner were replaced, although with Federated parts in stock locally, not AC Delco OEM.
-We replaced the TTY (torque to yield) cam bolts.
-We gambled on reusing the TTY crank bolt, it wasn't available when we needed it to be. Public or private criticism is welcome.
Boring summary:
-Before doing all of this: 90+ seconds of disconcerting clattering on cold start - sewing machine quiet after that,
-After doing all of this: 45 seconds with 1/4 the clattering than before when cold - sewing machine smooth after that.ing l
Conclusion: Since the crappy bolt wasn't broken and nothing else "looked bad", maybe it was just a bit sloppy? Maybe it was all the tensioner?
I'm a decent former semi-pro mechanic but not an HHR/Cobalt/Ecotec expert, so I don't know what the remaining cold-temp clattering could be. Could be anything in the belt train. 99% sure it isn't trans/clutch/input shaft.throwout bearing. Overall, not that important.
Overall, I'm glad I did this to extend the life of what might be the best car I've ever owned, and thank you to everyone for their help, and extra thanks to OldBlue for some rapid-response in DMs about the importance of dealing with the "crappy bolt."
Any further advice or thoughts are welcome. This is a well-moderated forum of high quality advice, in my opinion,
Cheers!
The two tensioners do their tensioning with oil pressure, but to keep them from backing off too far without oil pressure, they have, for lack of a more clear description, a mechanical stepped ratchet arrangement that compensates for build tolerances and wear. That way, the chain isn’t too sloppy before the oil pressure builds. So the chain is normally slightly loose at startup, but how loose varies rather randomly because the mechanical adjustment is incremental.
I examined one of my old tensioners and the ratchet part clearly was not working correctly, which would explain excessive looseness at startup. The cam timing chain tensioner has been redesigned at least twice, making me think this has been a trouble spot. Rumor has it that at least part of the redesigning was to increase the amount of wear that the tensioner could compensate for.
I had a 2008 2.2 that because noticeably noisier at startup and research said it had an old design cam tensioner. I took a wild gamble and replaced only that tensioner with the new design, at huge savings because it can be replaced externally, although it’s still required to “initiate” the tension, which requires removing the valve cover. It worked.
Another obvious trouble spot is the all-plastic front guide. They seem to break a LOT. I suspect a lot of those notorious bolts fail only because the guide broke, although if the bolt got loose, I suppose it could CAUSE the guide to break. My guide was broken but was in correct position and mostly intact. There was evidence that the chain was at times not being guided down the path it was supposed to be. The bolt was tight and in perfect shape. Sometimes those guides are shattered with pieces probably doing their best to cause further damage before finding various homes including in the oil pan. Then of course that bolt gets beat up and even spun out or broken.
You might find it interesting to check your old front guide carefully for chips and cracks if you still have it.
There is a competition house that has offered a strictly mechanical cam chain tensioner, no oil pressure involved. It is adjusted (and readjusted) manually. Other than the initial promo, I have heard nothing more about it.
I examined one of my old tensioners and the ratchet part clearly was not working correctly, which would explain excessive looseness at startup. The cam timing chain tensioner has been redesigned at least twice, making me think this has been a trouble spot. Rumor has it that at least part of the redesigning was to increase the amount of wear that the tensioner could compensate for.
I had a 2008 2.2 that because noticeably noisier at startup and research said it had an old design cam tensioner. I took a wild gamble and replaced only that tensioner with the new design, at huge savings because it can be replaced externally, although it’s still required to “initiate” the tension, which requires removing the valve cover. It worked.
Another obvious trouble spot is the all-plastic front guide. They seem to break a LOT. I suspect a lot of those notorious bolts fail only because the guide broke, although if the bolt got loose, I suppose it could CAUSE the guide to break. My guide was broken but was in correct position and mostly intact. There was evidence that the chain was at times not being guided down the path it was supposed to be. The bolt was tight and in perfect shape. Sometimes those guides are shattered with pieces probably doing their best to cause further damage before finding various homes including in the oil pan. Then of course that bolt gets beat up and even spun out or broken.
You might find it interesting to check your old front guide carefully for chips and cracks if you still have it.
There is a competition house that has offered a strictly mechanical cam chain tensioner, no oil pressure involved. It is adjusted (and readjusted) manually. Other than the initial promo, I have heard nothing more about it.
Cold start up noise can be chains, water pump, oil pump, serpentine belt tensioner, AC compressor, turbo charger, you might be hearing the HPFP . Then it can be a bit of all these .
The front guide as discussed is a know problem, one of our members just had one fail . The upper bolt can vibrate loose , it’s a mechanical thing, parts fail. As you state you got yours changed without incident.
The front guide as discussed is a know problem, one of our members just had one fail . The upper bolt can vibrate loose , it’s a mechanical thing, parts fail. As you state you got yours changed without incident.
I lightly supervised the job from a distance, and everything that came off "looked good", but I know that doesn't prove anything. This is speculative BS on my part, but knowing what I know now, I suspect much of it was the tensioner and if I was a hindsight cheapskate, I could have done the upgraded tensioner and the upgraded bolt (and the serpentine belt and its tensioner) and evaluated before going further.
The old noise that made me get back on here sure struck me as being an oil-pressured tensioner being lazy (been there done that before on other cars), it sounded "inside" the longblock. The remaining "clatter", I agree with OldBlue, I've heard it from 10 different places on different cars, and it all adds up.
It occurs to me that I've never driven or talked to another HHR SS owner in person, so I have no idea what is "normal". I know the personality (and especially the shift quality) is much different on the semi-equivalent Ecotec SAABs. Why anyone would prefer the SAAB version of the motor is beyond me - it makes less power and is less reliable and harder to tune and diagnose, but it is also less "thrashy" (motor mounts? dual-mass flywheel? sound deadening?). But the Ecotec SAABs I've driven shift like magical hot butter - same trans, but rods instead of cables, if I understand correctly. I have worked on my cables and shifter joints and greased and lubed, and it helps - but mine is still a "sticky" shifting car compared to every other manual trans car I've owned (20+?).
Any further thoughts or thrown tomatoes are welcome. Again, thank you for all of the good content and moderating here!
The old noise that made me get back on here sure struck me as being an oil-pressured tensioner being lazy (been there done that before on other cars), it sounded "inside" the longblock. The remaining "clatter", I agree with OldBlue, I've heard it from 10 different places on different cars, and it all adds up.
It occurs to me that I've never driven or talked to another HHR SS owner in person, so I have no idea what is "normal". I know the personality (and especially the shift quality) is much different on the semi-equivalent Ecotec SAABs. Why anyone would prefer the SAAB version of the motor is beyond me - it makes less power and is less reliable and harder to tune and diagnose, but it is also less "thrashy" (motor mounts? dual-mass flywheel? sound deadening?). But the Ecotec SAABs I've driven shift like magical hot butter - same trans, but rods instead of cables, if I understand correctly. I have worked on my cables and shifter joints and greased and lubed, and it helps - but mine is still a "sticky" shifting car compared to every other manual trans car I've owned (20+?).
Any further thoughts or thrown tomatoes are welcome. Again, thank you for all of the good content and moderating here!
So you've already adjusted the shifter cables at the shifter? Next would be replacing the slave cylinder and master cylinder.
Mine used to be hard to shift. It seemed like if there were just another 3/4" or so of pedal travel, it would have shifted great, but the pedal would contact the floor, and that was that. I had just the master cylinder replaced, and that made a big difference.
Recommendation is master and slave, but the slave cylinder replacement is a lot of work and expense, .
Mine used to be hard to shift. It seemed like if there were just another 3/4" or so of pedal travel, it would have shifted great, but the pedal would contact the floor, and that was that. I had just the master cylinder replaced, and that made a big difference.
Recommendation is master and slave, but the slave cylinder replacement is a lot of work and expense, .
So you've already adjusted the shifter cables at the shifter? Next would be replacing the slave cylinder and master cylinder.
Mine used to be hard to shift. It seemed like if there were just another 3/4" or so of pedal travel, it would have shifted great, but the pedal would contact the floor, and that was that. I had just the master cylinder replaced, and that made a big difference.
Recommendation is master and slave, but the slave cylinder replacement is a lot of work and expense, .
Mine used to be hard to shift. It seemed like if there were just another 3/4" or so of pedal travel, it would have shifted great, but the pedal would contact the floor, and that was that. I had just the master cylinder replaced, and that made a big difference.
Recommendation is master and slave, but the slave cylinder replacement is a lot of work and expense, .
The shift action itself is fine, just the movement of the shifter has a lot of friction.
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