Best tuner ???
01-17-2016, 08:34 AM
#11
Platinum Member
Join Date: 12-06-2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,107
You would have to buy a GM Stage kit first, 19212670, GM STAGE KIT,.
Then you have to go to a dealer to have it installed, the dealer would then get the tune fro GM and download it to your ECM. All said and done it may cost you up to 1K depending on the dealer.
Then you have to go to a dealer to have it installed, the dealer would then get the tune fro GM and download it to your ECM. All said and done it may cost you up to 1K depending on the dealer.
01-17-2016, 05:50 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-29-2015
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 542
That is, if they will do it at all. My dealer wouldn't do it based on mileage. Yours may be different. To lay it all out for the OP, tuning options (in my opinion) go like this. In order of "safest". And there are others, these are the ones that seem to come up most.
1: GMPP Stage 1 kit. Parts purchased from a dealer or elsewhere. Need to be installed at the dealer then a tune is provided by GM to "wake up" your buggy. Noticeable gains will be had here. This tune is giving you power your car already had. The sensors provided are designed to accurately measure higher boost pressures. Since all this needs to be performed at the dealer I could see the total coming close to $1,000, easily.
2. Trifecta (there are others as well, Trifecta seems to have a handle on the HHR engines) Trifecta will ask you for a mods list and tune accordingly. With or without the stage 3 sensors, Trifecta can improve your ride. They have options from mild to wild. Even the ability to turn the tune on and off using the cruise control button. I think it's called their Stealth tune. They have done enough engines to understand where you want to be performance-wise. This canned tune will get you close, you will do a datalog for Trifecta and submit for changes/tweaks to your setup. I'm not sure what it costs, I'm sure someone will help us out.
3.HPTuners: Is personal tuning software. You're taking things into your own hands. The reason I said it's for tinkerers is because it is... there's a steep learning curve when it comes to tuning. Especially if it's not something you're familiar/comfortable with. A lot can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. The LNF has a lot of information on the HPT forum. A lot must be learned about the way the ECM interacts with everything.
HPT is what I'll be using, soon as I get the funds. We'll be out in the spring and aren't getting far with the canned ZZP tune I have now.
-my 2 cents
1: GMPP Stage 1 kit. Parts purchased from a dealer or elsewhere. Need to be installed at the dealer then a tune is provided by GM to "wake up" your buggy. Noticeable gains will be had here. This tune is giving you power your car already had. The sensors provided are designed to accurately measure higher boost pressures. Since all this needs to be performed at the dealer I could see the total coming close to $1,000, easily.
2. Trifecta (there are others as well, Trifecta seems to have a handle on the HHR engines) Trifecta will ask you for a mods list and tune accordingly. With or without the stage 3 sensors, Trifecta can improve your ride. They have options from mild to wild. Even the ability to turn the tune on and off using the cruise control button. I think it's called their Stealth tune. They have done enough engines to understand where you want to be performance-wise. This canned tune will get you close, you will do a datalog for Trifecta and submit for changes/tweaks to your setup. I'm not sure what it costs, I'm sure someone will help us out.
3.HPTuners: Is personal tuning software. You're taking things into your own hands. The reason I said it's for tinkerers is because it is... there's a steep learning curve when it comes to tuning. Especially if it's not something you're familiar/comfortable with. A lot can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. The LNF has a lot of information on the HPT forum. A lot must be learned about the way the ECM interacts with everything.
HPT is what I'll be using, soon as I get the funds. We'll be out in the spring and aren't getting far with the canned ZZP tune I have now.
-my 2 cents
01-17-2016, 06:10 PM
#13
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-21-2015
Location: American fork, UT
Posts: 21
That is, if they will do it at all. My dealer wouldn't do it based on mileage. Yours may be different. To lay it all out for the OP, tuning options (in my opinion) go like this. In order of "safest". And there are others, these are the ones that seem to come up most.
1: GMPP Stage 1 kit. Parts purchased from a dealer or elsewhere. Need to be installed at the dealer then a tune is provided by GM to "wake up" your buggy. Noticeable gains will be had here. This tune is giving you power your car already had. The sensors provided are designed to accurately measure higher boost pressures. Since all this needs to be performed at the dealer I could see the total coming close to $1,000, easily.
2. Trifecta (there are others as well, Trifecta seems to have a handle on the HHR engines) Trifecta will ask you for a mods list and tune accordingly. With or without the stage 3 sensors, Trifecta can improve your ride. They have options from mild to wild. Even the ability to turn the tune on and off using the cruise control button. I think it's called their Stealth tune. They have done enough engines to understand where you want to be performance-wise. This canned tune will get you close, you will do a datalog for Trifecta and submit for changes/tweaks to your setup. I'm not sure what it costs, I'm sure someone will help us out.
3.HPTuners: Is personal tuning software. You're taking things into your own hands. The reason I said it's for tinkerers is because it is... there's a steep learning curve when it comes to tuning. Especially if it's not something you're familiar/comfortable with. A lot can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. The LNF has a lot of information on the HPT forum. A lot must be learned about the way the ECM interacts with everything.
HPT is what I'll be using, soon as I get the funds. We'll be out in the spring and aren't getting far with the canned ZZP tune I have now.
-my 2 cents
1: GMPP Stage 1 kit. Parts purchased from a dealer or elsewhere. Need to be installed at the dealer then a tune is provided by GM to "wake up" your buggy. Noticeable gains will be had here. This tune is giving you power your car already had. The sensors provided are designed to accurately measure higher boost pressures. Since all this needs to be performed at the dealer I could see the total coming close to $1,000, easily.
2. Trifecta (there are others as well, Trifecta seems to have a handle on the HHR engines) Trifecta will ask you for a mods list and tune accordingly. With or without the stage 3 sensors, Trifecta can improve your ride. They have options from mild to wild. Even the ability to turn the tune on and off using the cruise control button. I think it's called their Stealth tune. They have done enough engines to understand where you want to be performance-wise. This canned tune will get you close, you will do a datalog for Trifecta and submit for changes/tweaks to your setup. I'm not sure what it costs, I'm sure someone will help us out.
3.HPTuners: Is personal tuning software. You're taking things into your own hands. The reason I said it's for tinkerers is because it is... there's a steep learning curve when it comes to tuning. Especially if it's not something you're familiar/comfortable with. A lot can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. The LNF has a lot of information on the HPT forum. A lot must be learned about the way the ECM interacts with everything.
HPT is what I'll be using, soon as I get the funds. We'll be out in the spring and aren't getting far with the canned ZZP tune I have now.
-my 2 cents
01-18-2016, 10:15 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-26-2009
Location: City of Champions
Posts: 666
I'd love to tune myself but I don't even know where to start, my hhr already has 90k miles I want to get all I can but I don't want the error or blowing the motor by trying to tune myself... How can I trust someone tuning my car without even seeing it or without being on a dyno ? Set tunes have already been through that right by pros ? Right ? Where's the best and cheapest place to get the gmpp tune ?
1. Only get the GMMP tune for use as a 'base' tune, if you are getting HPTuner to do better tuning yourself. The GMMP tune itself is really a bad tune, a weak tune, compared to any canned tune that you can get today, as it was really the 1st tune that came out for our buggies at the end of 2008. This GMMP base tune has many 'safety features, that you can't see, that will prevent you from hurting your buggy, when you start doing some real tuning on top of it.
2. Get a canned tune from Trifecta, ZZP, ect, as there's nothing wrong with a canned tune.
Canned tunes are very safe tunes.
I could run a canned tune on my buggy with no issues.
It wouldn't be the most powerful, or the best tune possible, but really canned tunes are 'mature' products.
3.I have no engine mods that really need tuned for.
99.9% of you don't have any engine mods that have a need for 'special' tuning.
No tuning needed for aftermarket catted or no cat DPs, or for any catback changes, including 3" catbacks.
No tuning needed for a K&N filter, or when using the K&N intake system.
No tuning needed for aftermarket intercoolers/charge pipes.
So, with that being said, I could order a canned tune for my buggy, with no issues,
If running an E47.5 gas/ethanol mix a fuel constant change, & some basic timing changes, would be needed in your canned tune.
4. Real tuning is needed for crazy stuff like ported heads, different camshafts, bigger turbos, of which only .1% of you will go that direction.
Really no need to go this route, unless you have too much money, or too much time on your hands, as after all, our buggies are 'wrong-wheel-drive' to begin with, unless racecar is your goal. Remember, racecar spelled backwards, is still racecar.
5. 99.9% of us just want a dead reliable & fast DD buggy.
Just a simple canned tune woiuld be the only mod that you really have to do to your buggy to achieve this goal.
Everything else that you do to your buggy is just for your own personal satisfaction, or racecar.
6. Our ECM is a 'torque' based ECM, & uses a wideband for super accurate AFR. So it's really easy to tune.
Our engine likes a really lean Power Enrichment ratio, (PE). Even the GMMP tune has a really lean PE. Tuners like Trifecta for some reason like a 'richer' PE ratio which leaves a lot of HP on-the-table, & causes KR issues with this 'rich' PE. Really no problem with any canned tune, as a 'rich' PE is considered to be conservative , & also canned tunes have conservative timing changes, which also causes no problems. But once again leaves HP on-the-table. That's the 2 main reasons for 'self' tuning with HPTuner, as you can run a 'leaner' PE that the LNF really likes, & you can add more timing, which is = to adding more HP. This isn't going 'crazy' in any way, it's just 'fine' tuning in its simplest form.
The main reason that tuners won't give you the best PE, is because some guys still think that it's ok to use regular gasoline in a turbocharged engine.
The 'torque' curve of the stock LNF really really sucks big time, & any tune, will address this, & every tune will give you a better 'torque-curve'. You will think that your 'tuner' is a 'GOD', & he's just increasing the 'torque-curve'. Even the worse canned tune, does a good job changing the 'torque-curve', mainly because the stock torque curve so very very weak.
STOCK GMPP TORQUE CURVE which is better then the bone stock factory torque curve
THE BEST 'STREET' TORQUE CURVE THAT ANY TUNER CAN GIVE YOU
FOR RACING, WHEN I GET TO THE TRACK, I CHANGE THIS CURVE TO A STRAIGHT LINE, AT 100%, it's that easy....
A straight 100% line is fun on the street, as you can 'boil' the tires at low RPM, with lots of smoke...LOL
So, you can see how easy it is for any tuner to give you a better 'torque-curve', & most of them won't even give you 100% after approx: 3,000rpm.
So, any tuner that won't give you 100% of your available engine torque, is not giving you what the engine can, & wants, to give you...
Think of the torque-curve as a torque limiter, just like a speed limiter...
You have the speed limiter changed to let you go more MPH...
You have the torque limiter curve changed, to let you use more of the available engine torque...
Last edited by 2005HHRauto; 01-19-2016 at 08:54 AM.
01-20-2016, 07:46 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-26-2009
Location: City of Champions
Posts: 666
or google:
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01-20-2016, 07:53 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-07-2008
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 1,016
Those guys over there have tried all kinds of things, some work others haven't.
01-20-2016, 10:43 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-26-2009
Location: City of Champions
Posts: 666
01-20-2016, 11:55 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-07-2008
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 1,016