Do you think that the auto engineer's design car's ......
04-24-2015, 12:59 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 12-17-2014
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 131
Do you think that the auto engineer's design car's ......
So you have to take your car back to the dealership to be repaired?
With our HHR's
1. If you break the inside door handle-they want to sell you a complete door panel.
2. The lower control arm has the ball joint riveted to the arm & they sell you a complete arm-instead of just the ball joint.
3. The fuel cell has to be removed, in order to replace the fuel pump & there appears to be a cut out is above the fuel pump. I it was cut out, you would be able to remove the fuel pump by removing the rear seat.
4. Requiring you to buy a special tool to hold the timing chain in place -in order to remove the water pump.
What are your thoughts?
With our HHR's
1. If you break the inside door handle-they want to sell you a complete door panel.
2. The lower control arm has the ball joint riveted to the arm & they sell you a complete arm-instead of just the ball joint.
3. The fuel cell has to be removed, in order to replace the fuel pump & there appears to be a cut out is above the fuel pump. I it was cut out, you would be able to remove the fuel pump by removing the rear seat.
4. Requiring you to buy a special tool to hold the timing chain in place -in order to remove the water pump.
What are your thoughts?
04-24-2015, 02:22 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-26-2006
Location: San Bernardino, California
Posts: 1,876
Since you posed that question you'll find this article interesting:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-for...160000229.html
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-for...160000229.html
04-24-2015, 02:31 PM
#3
Platinum Member
Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
Here we go again............
1. things break - aftermarket repair kits are available, as is the handle itself from GM now
2. things break - aftermarket repair kits are available, and by the time the ball joint is done, the rear bushing most likely needs to be replaced - cheaper to do the whole LCA than piece by piece
3. true - but that is not something that has to be done everyday - not many vehicles have that cut-out access - cut it open yourself if it is a major issue for you, or find an independent shop with a good price, or do it yourself.
4. true - special tools are often designed by the manufacturer to simplify and speed up the repair on numerous parts of their vehicles - either make your own, or borrow/rent/buy the special tool (good case in point - the tool for the tensioner pulley when replacing the serpentine belt).
At todays labor rates that dealerships and repair shops charge, it is easier. quicker and therefore cheaper to just replace a multi-part component than piece by piece. If the LCA's weren't available with all the bushings and the ball-joint in place already, people would complain that it was too expensive to by and replace the various sub-components.
An independent shop can often undercut a dealerships price for the fuel pump removal, for example, by a substantial amount - it's up the car owner to figure out if they want to pay the dealers cost or not. Or even do it themselves.
1. things break - aftermarket repair kits are available, as is the handle itself from GM now
2. things break - aftermarket repair kits are available, and by the time the ball joint is done, the rear bushing most likely needs to be replaced - cheaper to do the whole LCA than piece by piece
3. true - but that is not something that has to be done everyday - not many vehicles have that cut-out access - cut it open yourself if it is a major issue for you, or find an independent shop with a good price, or do it yourself.
4. true - special tools are often designed by the manufacturer to simplify and speed up the repair on numerous parts of their vehicles - either make your own, or borrow/rent/buy the special tool (good case in point - the tool for the tensioner pulley when replacing the serpentine belt).
At todays labor rates that dealerships and repair shops charge, it is easier. quicker and therefore cheaper to just replace a multi-part component than piece by piece. If the LCA's weren't available with all the bushings and the ball-joint in place already, people would complain that it was too expensive to by and replace the various sub-components.
An independent shop can often undercut a dealerships price for the fuel pump removal, for example, by a substantial amount - it's up the car owner to figure out if they want to pay the dealers cost or not. Or even do it themselves.
04-24-2015, 02:55 PM
#5
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,670
Did you notice that they want to extend DMCA to "tuning". And really ANY firmware modification, even a toothbrush.
They interpret the law to mean that you may not modify their product in any way. Thankfully it only applies to "digital" products, for now.
They interpret the law to mean that you may not modify their product in any way. Thankfully it only applies to "digital" products, for now.
04-24-2015, 03:50 PM
#6
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,804
Good idea !!!!
That's what the internet and the many parts stores are for..........locating alternate replacement parts.
And by the way, depending on the dealer, some use aftermarket door parts (as well as other items).....BUT they MAY NOT guarantee it.
That's what the internet and the many parts stores are for..........locating alternate replacement parts.
And by the way, depending on the dealer, some use aftermarket door parts (as well as other items).....BUT they MAY NOT guarantee it.
Last edited by Snoopy; 04-24-2015 at 04:28 PM.
04-26-2015, 04:04 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-27-2014
Location: Georgia-lina
Posts: 292
Yes I do, and also the phenom called planned obsolescence.
I have to advocate one point for gm's side and that is none of us would want somebody monkeying around with a Chevy Volt's systems. Too many what if's...endangering everybody as well as hacking in to GM intellegence property, which would be illegal.
I may not be using the correct terms but my point stands.
As we move forward with vehicle technology the public safety contengencies must be developed as well. Cars that stop for obstacles, inboard wifi hotspots, driver data recording....just to name a few, are potentially dangerous liabilities for automakers.
Watch for strictley leasing options for certain models, public nevers owns the vehicle and it's turned in after a calculated lifespan and destroyed to recycle.
I have to advocate one point for gm's side and that is none of us would want somebody monkeying around with a Chevy Volt's systems. Too many what if's...endangering everybody as well as hacking in to GM intellegence property, which would be illegal.
I may not be using the correct terms but my point stands.
As we move forward with vehicle technology the public safety contengencies must be developed as well. Cars that stop for obstacles, inboard wifi hotspots, driver data recording....just to name a few, are potentially dangerous liabilities for automakers.
Watch for strictley leasing options for certain models, public nevers owns the vehicle and it's turned in after a calculated lifespan and destroyed to recycle.
04-26-2015, 04:38 PM
#9
Technical Moderator
Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 24,670
Is there a "Volt" mechanic at every Dealership? I doubt it. I bet the guy that R&Rs every other part is the same guy. As much as they would like you to believe that "mechanicking" is a form of magick, it is still "disconnect the battery, then unbolt the old part and bolt the new one on". Sometimes they have to read & follow the directions on the Techii screen to re program something.
04-26-2015, 05:44 PM
#10
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 36,458
Back in the day, I was the Mercury specialist one job and the Lincoln tech the next.
When you look under them they are almost the same car, same for Chev to Pontiac to Buick to Caddy, same nuts and bolts different badges and body panels.
The engines in our little buggys came from Saab, I'm sure Cobalt and G5/6 owners have many of the same issues, I marvelled at the cheap LCA bushings , in my buddies Saturn and my nieces Dodge Caliber very similar setup.
These cars old and new still rust to death eventually just like my 47 Ford and my 55 Mercury and my 65 Galaxie and 66 Mercury Meteor S33 and my AMC Eagle ( talk about built in corrosion ) nothing is new , try and find a 69 Ltd or 70 AMC Ambassador
When you look under them they are almost the same car, same for Chev to Pontiac to Buick to Caddy, same nuts and bolts different badges and body panels.
The engines in our little buggys came from Saab, I'm sure Cobalt and G5/6 owners have many of the same issues, I marvelled at the cheap LCA bushings , in my buddies Saturn and my nieces Dodge Caliber very similar setup.
These cars old and new still rust to death eventually just like my 47 Ford and my 55 Mercury and my 65 Galaxie and 66 Mercury Meteor S33 and my AMC Eagle ( talk about built in corrosion ) nothing is new , try and find a 69 Ltd or 70 AMC Ambassador