The End Of a Era?
Senior Member
Joined: 07-26-2006
Posts: 903
From: Soon to be Longview, Texas
Oddly enough, if any brand were to get the axe, I think it would be smarter to give it to GMC mainly because ... well, let's face it, it's redundant!!!! Why the hell do you need a whole separate brand to sell trucks that are IDENTICAL to the Chevy offerings except they have nicer interiors?! Keep Pontiac, ditch GMC.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-16-2009
Posts: 6,038
From: Frankenmuth/Flint, MI
Oddly enough, if any brand were to get the axe, I think it would be smarter to give it to GMC mainly because ... well, let's face it, it's redundant!!!! Why the hell do you need a whole separate brand to sell trucks that are IDENTICAL to the Chevy offerings except they have nicer interiors?! Keep Pontiac, ditch GMC.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-07-2008
Posts: 1,051
From: Wisconsin
Yopu had better get the facts on this. Rick did do a good job and if the economy had remained stable and the final agreements witht he UAW and trust fund were hammered out GM had very good chance of refroming as a global company less many of the burdens they have carried for years.
The problem Rick faced coming in was a shrinking market share, too much production capacitym UAW problems, Too much inter division waste. I could go on. Either way GM was being turned. Rick also had to do this with little money. Rick brought about more changes as CEO since Anyone since the 50's when the trouble started.
To Change GM they needed Capital and lot of Capital. That is why they moved up the new trucks. The trucks make more profit than anything else on the market. Then the case cruch came in Followed up with the Market. Buying out employees and closing plants is not free. Killing brands like Pontiac Saturn and Hummer come at great cost buying out dealers alone. Making GM smaller is no cheap feat. In some cases more expensive in the short term to just keeping parts of it open.
If you really want to know what happened and what is going on read more then a interveiw. Read the new Book named Why GM Matters. It tells the story from the begining to the Sloan era on to around 1960 when the market changed and GM did not for many many years. It names names of past CEO's set this mess up and left it to Rick to fix.
GM's problems is over 40 years old and would not be solved in one year by one man. Rick in his few years has some more than anyone in 40 years.
To think he created this problem is foolish and to not give him credit for what he did right is even more foolish. Yes I will agree he did make some mistakes like the Fiat deal but the positive far out weight the negitives.
If you want to access the blaime it needs to go to the Roger Smiths and the like who did have their heads in the sand.
By the way GM is the first in this country to really push Direct Injection in gas powered cars on a large scale. IT too takes money to add this to each engine and the plan is progressing as they can pay for it in the budget. Justy as it is with many other programs.
Kind of like fixing up your HHR with little money. You have to do what you can afford to when you get the money.
The problem Rick faced coming in was a shrinking market share, too much production capacitym UAW problems, Too much inter division waste. I could go on. Either way GM was being turned. Rick also had to do this with little money. Rick brought about more changes as CEO since Anyone since the 50's when the trouble started.
To Change GM they needed Capital and lot of Capital. That is why they moved up the new trucks. The trucks make more profit than anything else on the market. Then the case cruch came in Followed up with the Market. Buying out employees and closing plants is not free. Killing brands like Pontiac Saturn and Hummer come at great cost buying out dealers alone. Making GM smaller is no cheap feat. In some cases more expensive in the short term to just keeping parts of it open.
If you really want to know what happened and what is going on read more then a interveiw. Read the new Book named Why GM Matters. It tells the story from the begining to the Sloan era on to around 1960 when the market changed and GM did not for many many years. It names names of past CEO's set this mess up and left it to Rick to fix.
GM's problems is over 40 years old and would not be solved in one year by one man. Rick in his few years has some more than anyone in 40 years.
To think he created this problem is foolish and to not give him credit for what he did right is even more foolish. Yes I will agree he did make some mistakes like the Fiat deal but the positive far out weight the negitives.
If you want to access the blaime it needs to go to the Roger Smiths and the like who did have their heads in the sand.
By the way GM is the first in this country to really push Direct Injection in gas powered cars on a large scale. IT too takes money to add this to each engine and the plan is progressing as they can pay for it in the budget. Justy as it is with many other programs.
Kind of like fixing up your HHR with little money. You have to do what you can afford to when you get the money.
BTW, I agree with your assessment about what will be left after chapter 11. I'm starting to wonder if that's what Obama wants. I wonder if GM's proposal didn't thin it down to this point.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
Why so defensive? I was only stating my opinion. I never said GM's problems were new. Everyone knows they've built up over many years. And yes, I know the facts. But I'm not going to argue with you. I will only say that for all the good Wagoner did, he didn't do some of it early, or aggressive enough. We see this differently and that's fine with me.
BTW, I agree with your assessment about what will be left after chapter 11. I'm starting to wonder if that's what Obama wants. I wonder if GM's proposal didn't thin it down to this point.
BTW, I agree with your assessment about what will be left after chapter 11. I'm starting to wonder if that's what Obama wants. I wonder if GM's proposal didn't thin it down to this point.
There are several thing that caused this problems some more than others. But too many in the press and goverment just give the whole story.
Sorry if I was alittle wound up I did not mean to offend.
Obama was sending a message to the UAW and Bond holder to make a deal with GM.
He has to make the UAW but does not want to do it himself so he is making GM do the dirty work. Firing Rick was his offering to the UAW to give in return.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-07-2008
Posts: 1,051
From: Wisconsin
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
I am affraid he has stepped over the line a few too many times for me already.
I am waiting to see what is done at the G20 conf in Europe.
I fear they will give more control to the IMF and that is way wrong!
I am for charity to a point but not the share the wealth by force.
Banned
Joined: 08-25-2007
Posts: 488
From: Myrtle Beach SC
Whatever you do, don't own the problem. 
Why not just nationalize the auto industry? You know he wants to. All those loyal union workers on the government payroll. Mmmmmmm.
He obviously believes it's government that allows a private company to succeed or fail. They couldn't possibly just step aside and let the markets and industry work themselves out. The winners and losers are determined by the Man, not by the people. And that makes me sad.
Why not just nationalize the auto industry? You know he wants to. All those loyal union workers on the government payroll. Mmmmmmm.
He obviously believes it's government that allows a private company to succeed or fail. They couldn't possibly just step aside and let the markets and industry work themselves out. The winners and losers are determined by the Man, not by the people. And that makes me sad.
How long can he keep blaming Bush? I guess as long as the Bama Kool _aid drinkers are drinking... He OWNS tomorrow. Bush screwed up and should have never gave away the farm.
Let GM go BK..like all private companies that cannot eek out a profit. Let the courts disallow all contracts and GM will have a giant do over. The American Public out side of Michigan both Liberal and Conservative have no empathy for the UAW. Which is why Obama will have to let GM file for BK.
When the shop floor sweeper is getting $30 bucks and hour plus plus plus that pretty much puts him in the top 30% of ALL worker salaries in the country and not too many people feel sorry for him.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 1,115
From: Oshawa
Well he did not inherit the 3000 point drop in the market since he was elected!! And he did not "fire" the Union Boss.......
How long can he keep blaming Bush? I guess as long as the Bama Kool _aid drinkers are drinking... He OWNS tomorrow. Bush screwed up and should have never gave away the farm.
Let GM go BK..like all private companies that cannot eek out a profit. Let the courts disallow all contracts and GM will have a giant do over. The American Public out side of Michigan both Liberal and Conservative have no empathy for the UAW. Which is why Obama will have to let GM file for BK.
When the shop floor sweeper is getting $30 bucks and hour plus plus plus that pretty much puts him in the top 30% of ALL worker salaries in the country and not too many people feel sorry for him.
How long can he keep blaming Bush? I guess as long as the Bama Kool _aid drinkers are drinking... He OWNS tomorrow. Bush screwed up and should have never gave away the farm.
Let GM go BK..like all private companies that cannot eek out a profit. Let the courts disallow all contracts and GM will have a giant do over. The American Public out side of Michigan both Liberal and Conservative have no empathy for the UAW. Which is why Obama will have to let GM file for BK.
When the shop floor sweeper is getting $30 bucks and hour plus plus plus that pretty much puts him in the top 30% of ALL worker salaries in the country and not too many people feel sorry for him.