Rethinking American Autos
 

Well, I just got back from dropping my wife's 2007 Equinox at the dealer. It is back in for an oil leak that won't quite go away, the check engine light is on again, and the wiper controls don't work. This is all in less than a year and doesn't include the other dealer corrected problems and 2 recalls. And it's only been 10000 miles. Then I look at my HHR. Since I bought it in 2005 it's been one thing after another. And as I look at it today I still need to replace the rear bowtie, the top dash compartment door latch is broken, and I have a new clunking sound underneath. And I only have 14500 miles on it. It's really getting depressing. With both Chevys it's one thing after another. It's why I got away from Ford....I mean, I like the dealer, his service guys are great, but I'm really getting tired of going there for repairs. I've been doing a lot of research and have been looking at foreign. Subaru seems to be the best bang for the buck as far as economy, repairs, and is handy here in the northeast. As a former union member, I always took pride in my work. I know most union members do. But I think the UAW needs to look at what they are building. It's all getting to be overpriced junk. It's either time they put the pride back into their work, or I am going elsewhere.

It really is sad it has come to this, but I know exactly where you are coming from. Fortunately I've had minimal problems with my HHR, and at 65,000 miles I'm very pleased. With our old Pontiac Montana, it was a different story. We bought it used with 40,000 miles. At 65,000 we had to replace the head gasket (thank you dexcool). At 125,000, the head gasket goes again, taking the engine out with it. We left it where it broke down and went van shopping, knowing it would not be another GM, or as it turned out another American car. We bought a KIA Sedona with only 38,000 miles with the remainder of the 10 year 100,000 mile warranty, and it's been a great van. No problems at all. This is the first car I have ever owned that wasn't one of the big 3, and I have to admit I'm pleased with my purchase. I was one of those who swore I would never by a foreign car, but when there is such a gap in reliability, you don't feel like you have a choice. It burns me up that GM knows about the dexcool problems yet continues to ignore it. I won't EVER buy a GM with the 3.8 or 3.4 V6 again. And when it's time to replace the KIA, it will probably be another KIA, Toyota, or perhaps Subaru.

The Equinox was not built by the UAW. It is made at a Japanese plant in Quebec by the CAW with a Japanese trans and Chinese engine. I am an American and do what I can to support my country and its economy in spite of driving a new Mexican assembled HHR. Our children deserve our support. Screw Korea! They sold over 700,000 vehicles here in 2007 and bought 4500 of ours and now riot over American beef imports. At least they know who butters their bread and do not shoot themselves in their feet as Americans do. We justify buying unAmerican by saying it is a global economy. NO it is not! Others do not buy from us like we buy from them. That is why each month there is a $60 BILLION imbalance of payments problem. ..and THAT is why the American dollar is plummeting and it takes more to buy gas and everything else!

Seriously, why should someone compromise their needs in an expensive purchase like an automobile just to satisfy a misplaced sense of patriotism?

I bought my HHR Panel because it was the ONLY vehicle on the market that had the combination of utility and fuel mileage I needed. I was saving up for an Astro, but they stopped building them before I had enough saved to buy one. I need a panel to keep my tools secure and out of view when I go on road service calls. It would have been nice to be able to buy a UAW built vehicle, but none existed that met my needs. I refuse to join the sheeple.

I have always had great luck with Toyota although a lot of that is based on a 1991 Celica GTS..hands down the best car I have EVER owned.


That sucks FW..I had a Saturn Vue that was just basically a rolling POS that the dealer had to rebuild piece by piece..that lasted a year before I dumped it and didn't take too much of a hit most surprisingly

If some of the issues of this HHR blossom into stuff where I'm running back and forth every other week than it will probably be back to Toyota or maybe Honda for good this time

Hope it does not come to that though...still starts everyday 1 year and 35K later



Goose

Wow, this is a great thread to start up on an HHR fan forum...

I gotta say, this is BS. If you have problems with a car, trade it for a different one. Everyone builds lemons at some point and everyone's going to buy a lemon at some point. It doesn't mean that you write off an entire company or country, for that matter.

I'd really LOVE to see all those Koreans and Japanese who get a troubled car and say, "Hey, I think I'M going to stick it to Toyota/Hyundai next time and buy an American/German car." It's not going to happen. Completely unthinkable in that culture yet in the North American and Western European culture it's completely acceptable to take bread from your neighbor's kids to punish your neighbor for putting a bad part on your car.

You are right on that point, anybody can build a bad car, after all, they are built by humans. Oh, and the robots were built by humans too.

I have a 93 Mercedes Benz 190E with the 2.6L engine. The timing chain broke and wiped out half the valves. it's going to cost me $1600 to repair. Does that mean that M-B builds crappy cars?

That "misplaced sense of patriotism" goes by different names in the Midwest. Here it is called "jobs" or "future for our children". We have a lot of Toyota owners driving to the unemployment offices here. They do not see the connection but they make the Japanese happy. The Koreans are smart! In their country, the 3% of their vehicles that were not built there get rocks thrown at them.

Also keep in mind that most of those parts on that automobile are bought from vendors outside any given automobile company. And the person on the assembly line installed what they are given.

TomR

Danko: Sorry to burst your bubble but your KIA is used there for has 5 year/60,000 mile warranty. Not 10 year/ 100,000 miles (that only applies to first owner) unless your car was CERTIFIED! I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WORK FOR HYUNDAI

I will not argue with the young and no one burst my bubble. I know of what I speak unlike some here. That last reply makes no sense at all and does not read right..... I have no Kia and never will and there ARE still vehicles made in the U.S. by Americans that use almost all American parts. Expect no further reply from me about whether supporting my country makes sense or not. Actions are what count and I am glad most of the parts in my wife's HHR are U.S. built.

Sorry, but I call BS

I have worked for suppliers to the Big 3 for 25 yrs and I still see no good reason to compromise what I need in a vehicle to support companies that aren't building what I need. Granted, my needs are somewhat of a niche market, but Detroit spent way too many years following the easy road, i.e. trucks are more profitable than small cars, than developing a small car that there was certain to be a market for. Instead, they BOUGHT their small cars from Korea as well (Aveo, anyone?) and although I have many friends who are now losing much of what they worked for due to the auto slump, I also have been telling them to get a job outside the auto industry for at least the last 5 years.

Only you can decide how much you get paid, if you want more, learn more. The days of high paying unskilled jobs are over.

Aveo is a good little subcompact built by GM's Daewoo division in Korea, and I don't see any of the Japanese building their "profitable" subcompacts over here, either.

Granted, if that's the attitude you want to live by, that's your right. Just know that eventually it's going to catch up with you and your job as a supplier. I think it's absurd to think that way when the Asian culture would never abandon pride in their country's workmanship over interior fabrics and a recall or two.

I think this is a response to my post, not Danko, just to end any confusion. Yes, our KIA does have the 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty, because we purchased that warranty at the time of sale. You are correct it only applies to the first owner, unless it is purchased at resale, which we did.

As to our reason for not buying a GM, I think we all know (or should know) about the problems with the head gaskets and dexcool in the 3.4 V6. It is a well documented problem, and has been for many years, so you can't say it is an isolated problem. Unfortunately I found out about it the hard way. It is a problem that GM has decided to ignore. Some of you may have heard about the lawsuit against GM that GM lost. I was contacted about this lawsuit, and declined to participate. Suing GM is not the answer IMO. We live in a free market, so I believe in letting the free market take care of things, which I did. GM does not build a quality minivan and IMO has ignored a major problem which bit us not only once but twice in a short time, with the same vehicle, so I shopped elsewhere. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but as in any free market, people are going to buy the better product. As I said in my original post, I was one who swore I would never buy a foreign car, but after research, there was a big difference in quality and safety with the KIA over domestic minivans. This doesn't mean I won't ever buy American again, because I will, it just will NOT be a GM 3.4 V6, or any other motor with a known, widespread problem.

Firewatcher, why blame the uaw, they are not the ones that design the parts...just build them. You are nearsighted if you think that is the problem.

And Mizzous(whatever)...get real:roll:

mizzouhhr did you ever think that your driving habits and the used car theory of buying someone elses vehicle(misused) could be your problem.:2cents:

The UAW is part of the problem and we all know it. Higher wages mean higher costs. I understand the need for being paid what you are worth, but while wages have gone up, the quality has gone down.

You are definitely in another world if you think quality has gone down in GM. They have outperformed the foreigners for at least the last 3 years. Check out the stats. You should make sure you brain is turned on before your mouth is engaged.:lol:

You have got to be kidding :wtf:

It's my driving habits that cause dexcool antifreeze to destroy head gaskets? Funny how I've never had problems with my other cars, including my HHR (with 63,000 miles) which I would buy another today given the choice. I'm not the only one with the dexcool issue. Perhaps you should do some research before making such a statement. I think YOU are the one who needs to "get real".

Mizzou... if you like you could join the Kia forum:lol:
And Firewatcher... there is a Subaru forum if you like also.:roll:

you guys should go to this post...

https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/lounge-10/forum-whiners-16276/

:roll:

Why, I own an HHR, which I am extremely happy with, and would buy another today. My beef is with the dexcool issue on the 3.4 V6. I don't understand why you choose to ignore that part of my post.:roll:

Because this is an "HHR FORUM". What don't you understand about that?:roll:

This is the Lounge, which is for off topic threads. What don't you understand about that?

No use, you just don't get it. Some never do...just go to your old vehicle forum to whine..."Foreign car promoter". Don't forget...Hungry...eat your import.:p:

One last time. I OWN AN HHR.:roll:

LOL!!! "Foreign car promoter"... sticks and stones... you crack me up!

<--- I'm reliving second grade all over again!

You "ARE" the one that said his next car would be a Kia...simple evaluation...DUH.:roll:

LOL! I don't know nothing about any KIA! But I love all my vehicles, foreign and domestic! I even name them all!

2008 HHR SS (Raven)
2007 Ford Expedition (Alpine)
1995 Corvette (Wildfire)
2007 BMW 650 GS (Espresso)
2006 Skidoo Summit 600 (Blizzard
2006 Suzuki Vinson 500 (Rocky)

Srry...that was for mizzou...:eek:

I used to think that naming every vehicle was a "chick" thing. (yes, frosty is a chick) LOL! But since I came to these threads I see that it's not just a chick thing! Made me feel right at home.

And this from another thread started by Cokey "Thanks for my bit of anal..."

This is our forum. This is the Lounge. Where anyone can post anything that really isn't HHR. Everyone has an opinion. As stated in your thread about "whiners". When I joined this group, there was virtually nobody here. Now after a few years, there are more owners, hence more opinions.

I started this thread to elicit responses and discussions to see how others felt. And folks wonder why CH dropped out.

BTW - I have always enjoyed this forum since it was opened in 2005. There has always been some lively discussions, HHR or otherwise.

It is WELL documented about the head gasket problems on the 3.4 engine... Go visit an Impala forum or even Edmunds or any other forum that deals with cars that had the 3.4 and they are rife with complaints about this issue...and it isn't limited to just the 3.4 either


Cokey, I can't believe as a retired GM employee you could come up with something so outlandish as to say it was his driving habits that caused a headgasket issue especially since it is so well documented EVERYWHERE

Maybe this should shed some light:

ERVICE - TO: ALL GENERAL MOTORS DEALERS (EXCLUDING SATURN,
SAAB AND ISUZU)
ATTENTION: SERVICE MANAGER


Subject: Coolant System Class Action Lawsuit Settlement
Message #: WIS20080217

GM SERVICE AND PARTS OPERATIONS
DCS2014
URGENT - DISTRIBUTE IMMEDIATELY



Date: April 2, 2008

Subject: Coolant System Class Action Lawsuit Settlement

To: All General Motors Dealers (excluding Saturn, SAAB
and Isuzu)

Attention: Service Manager

Recently, an agreement was reached to settle multiple class action lawsuits pending around the country relating to a variety of cooling system related issues.

This includes the performance of silicon bead/nylon carrier intake manifold gaskets in certain 1995 through 2004 model year 3.1, 3.4 and 3.8 liter engines; alleged deficiencies in the performance of DexCool coolant in those same engines; coolant leaks in 2000 through 2004 model year 3.8 liter engines (RPO L36); and "DexCool sludging" (i.e. coolant system clogging) in 2000 through 2004 model year S-Utilities and pickup trucks.

Given the large size of the vehicle population involved, there will undoubtedly be a substantial amount of interest. Any customer inquiries should be referred to the official web site for settlement administration at http://www.dexcoolsettlement.com/.

Inquiring customers can also be referred to the toll free telephone number for the Claims Administrator at 1-866-245-4291.


END OF MESSAGE
GM SERVICE AND PARTS OPERATIONS



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message #: WIS20080217
Date Released: 04/02/2008
Recommended Distribution: Service Manager




Like FW said...this is an open forum...just because we all bought Chevys does not mean we should have some blind allegiance to them..jeeeesh

Welcome to the internet where not everyone is gonna look at things with blinders




Goose

OK, so GM bought the company....
Again, all I am saying is that when I make a major purchase, I try to get what will meet my needs as completely as possible. If all you needed was a 3 bedroom house and a 2 car garage would you buy a 3000 square foot McMansion?
And since someone else decided to post their driveway denizens, here's mine:
2008 HHR Panel
1996 Geo Tracker
1993 M-B 190E
1989 Jeep Wrangler
1986 Dodge B250 Van
1983 Dodge B250 Van (Son's car)
1971 VW Beetle
1968 Chevy Van

And on two wheels:
1989 Harley FLHTC
1971 Triumph T120C

I had more vehicles, but had a big sale in the spring...

Wow Mongo.......an M-G. I haven't even seen one of those in years. I rode in one once......to me it was like my backside was dragging on the ground at a high rate of speed. Nice car, just not my cup of tea.

"Not for the new guys to take over". Now your doing what Cokey was doing... making others feel unwelcome. It's my understanding this thread is for everyone, whether we are new or have been around awhile. Everyone here was new once. No one should be excluded and I don't see how anyone can take over thread when we all have equal opportunity to post.

Hey, wasn't that whining thread around here somewhere? :confused: Did the HHR police get em b/c I can't find it. It was kind of entertaining. :lol:

The topic of this thread is: "Rethinking American Autos" lets stay on topic folks!

Sindy, I had the feeling we would be hearing from you in this thread sooner or later :red:

I think GM meets that need very well. Chevrolet alone has Aveo, Cobalt, Malibu, and Impala. That easily matches Toyota going from Yaris, Corolla, Camry, and Avalon. Or even Honda's line of Fit, Civc, and Accord.

Take a look at SUVs. Chevy has Equinox, Traverse, TrailBlazer, Tahoe, Avalanche, and Suburban. TrailBlazer is going away after 2009 and Tahoe and Avalanche probably won't be far behind. Toyota has RAV4, FJ Cruiser, Highlander, 4Runner, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser.

Also, just so everyone is clear. GM didn't lose *any* lawsuit related to Dex-Cool and the 60 degree V6 engines. They settled and are offering repair and reimbursement to certain affected owners.