Had enough...
Platinum Member
Joined: 05-09-2006
Posts: 6,805
From: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Originally Posted by Rickh
Please don't take this wrong, I do know what a pain in the neck it is to go through the repairs you have, and the aggravation, but as kindly as I can put this, I don't mean it harshly, I think you have a bit of an over reaction here. And believe me no one over reacts more than me :). But I calm it all down eventually.
I personally do NOT think the problems you have had warrant the lemon law nor a lawyer and if I were the arrbitrator I would not totally side with your view..but that said..I would hammer the dealer.
You say the crappy car, the crappy GM parts, etc., etc. Welp, there are what, how many tens of thousands of HHR's out there running around and they are not having the gasket/leak problems you have..so it is not likely crappy gaskets, etc..it is a crappy mechanic/dealer.
Second, the lemon law is not so easy as to simply say four chances (here in new york it is 4 chances) to fix a problem within a year and then they must take the car back. The car must have less than 18000 miles on it. The problem must lessen the value of the car (not just be a pain in the neck). Here is the wording:
If, within the period specified in subdivision (b) of this section (4 tries in new york), the manufacturer or its agents or authorized dealers are unable to repair or correct any defect or condition which substantially impairs the value of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer, at the option of the consumer, shall replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle, or accept return of the vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price or, if applicable, the lease price and any trade-in allowance plus fees and charges. Any return of a motor vehicle may, at the option of the consumer, be made to the dealer or other authorized agent of the manufacturer who sold such vehicle .
That is where so many dealers win out (even though they should not), they will say that this does NOT devalue your car. You say it does, that you will not be able to sell the car because you have to disclose it had an oil leak/etc..here in new york we have no such disclosure other than body damage, not mechanical.
My advice, for what it is worth to you, take it to another dealer..this should be something easily fixed in one try by someone reputable.
I will relate to you a similar situation I had on a Grand Prix (and my father had the same year/model GRand prix and had same problem). There was an oil leak around the pan. We both had it in three times each for the dealer to fix. They honestly did their best...trying new gaskets, sealers, different mechanics..just could not stop it..after xxx miles it would start to leak. Finally a TSB came out from Pontiac (after we had this problem for a couple of months). Turns out there was a bunch of pans manufactured not up to specs..they shipped out new pans, was replaced one visit, never a problem again.
Call GM (they have a number on the website and in your owners manual). Tell them the problem, calmly, and/or ask at your dealer to see the local area representative (a GM rep who travels from dealer to dealer to solve such problems) on his next visit. I bet you you will get instant gratification from the dealer rep..give it a try.
I personally do NOT think the problems you have had warrant the lemon law nor a lawyer and if I were the arrbitrator I would not totally side with your view..but that said..I would hammer the dealer.
You say the crappy car, the crappy GM parts, etc., etc. Welp, there are what, how many tens of thousands of HHR's out there running around and they are not having the gasket/leak problems you have..so it is not likely crappy gaskets, etc..it is a crappy mechanic/dealer.
Second, the lemon law is not so easy as to simply say four chances (here in new york it is 4 chances) to fix a problem within a year and then they must take the car back. The car must have less than 18000 miles on it. The problem must lessen the value of the car (not just be a pain in the neck). Here is the wording:
If, within the period specified in subdivision (b) of this section (4 tries in new york), the manufacturer or its agents or authorized dealers are unable to repair or correct any defect or condition which substantially impairs the value of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer, at the option of the consumer, shall replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle, or accept return of the vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price or, if applicable, the lease price and any trade-in allowance plus fees and charges. Any return of a motor vehicle may, at the option of the consumer, be made to the dealer or other authorized agent of the manufacturer who sold such vehicle .
That is where so many dealers win out (even though they should not), they will say that this does NOT devalue your car. You say it does, that you will not be able to sell the car because you have to disclose it had an oil leak/etc..here in new york we have no such disclosure other than body damage, not mechanical.
My advice, for what it is worth to you, take it to another dealer..this should be something easily fixed in one try by someone reputable.
I will relate to you a similar situation I had on a Grand Prix (and my father had the same year/model GRand prix and had same problem). There was an oil leak around the pan. We both had it in three times each for the dealer to fix. They honestly did their best...trying new gaskets, sealers, different mechanics..just could not stop it..after xxx miles it would start to leak. Finally a TSB came out from Pontiac (after we had this problem for a couple of months). Turns out there was a bunch of pans manufactured not up to specs..they shipped out new pans, was replaced one visit, never a problem again.
Call GM (they have a number on the website and in your owners manual). Tell them the problem, calmly, and/or ask at your dealer to see the local area representative (a GM rep who travels from dealer to dealer to solve such problems) on his next visit. I bet you you will get instant gratification from the dealer rep..give it a try.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.......
In your text above (which may not apply to Calif.)..."unable to repair or correct any defect or condition which substantially impairs the value of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts"..
It is not speaking specifically of financial value, but value to the consumer. The instrumental issue is to convince the arbitrators, the vehicle has lost value to you because it cannot get from home to work, without interuption or extreme delay. Otherwords it has lost its "utilility" as transportation to provide you access to the method/means which pays for the car, etc. Thus, jeopardizing his livelyhood.
I was on this manufacturers negotiating panel when this arguement was used......we lost. The owner did not have access to a secondary vehicle and public transportation was not reasonable. Vehicle was replaced with the same model minus some depreciation.
Oh, and ask another attorney....I bet he agrees.
Good Luck...
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 184
From: Mission Valley, San Diego
Well after some negotiating, Chevy is buying back my ride, and I can get whatever Chevy I wish with the same financing deal of 0% interest I already have. My original loan amount will not change, and I will have to cover any thing over that amount out of pocket at the time I sign the paperwork. I will not incur any usage charges for the 4 months I have owned it and my equity will roll over into the new car.
As for what I am going to get, I think the new Fall Edition will be next and it is very little over my original loan amount so there won't be much out of pocket.
I did not use a lawyer, I dealt directly with Chevy and made a convincing point with the rep I spoke with over the past two days.
Overall, I am completely satisfied with the outcome, as I think I should be.
Thank you to those with encouraging words and support.
As for what I am going to get, I think the new Fall Edition will be next and it is very little over my original loan amount so there won't be much out of pocket.
I did not use a lawyer, I dealt directly with Chevy and made a convincing point with the rep I spoke with over the past two days.
Overall, I am completely satisfied with the outcome, as I think I should be.
Thank you to those with encouraging words and support.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-30-2006
Posts: 9,149
From: Maryland Heights, MO
Sounds like you're coming out okay! Glad to hear it.
As for the Fall Edition, on another forum CJ posted a bunch of pics of seven of them at a dealer near him. I was very unimpressed. I thought they could have done a much better job of the black chrome.
http://**************.19. forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=501(just remove the space after .19.)
They aren't clean but there are 8 pics of the inside and out.
I thought the interior was vet blah, though the white stitching was a nice touch.
As for the Fall Edition, on another forum CJ posted a bunch of pics of seven of them at a dealer near him. I was very unimpressed. I thought they could have done a much better job of the black chrome.
http://**************.19. forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=501(just remove the space after .19.)
They aren't clean but there are 8 pics of the inside and out.
I thought the interior was vet blah, though the white stitching was a nice touch.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-30-2006
Posts: 9,149
From: Maryland Heights, MO
Originally Posted by trey1966
I agree the black chrome could be better, but I like it much better than the bright red thing I drive around now.
Member
Joined: 08-19-2006
Posts: 50
From: Bakersfield, California
Geez, I hope I don't having the same issues with my Spring Edition....
Maybe I will luckout considering I have a different engine/trans.
I have noticed two things lately, I can hear a slight, but constant 'ticking' from the engine bay while idling and cruising under 2000 RPM. The rate of ticking varies with engine RPM. Kinda reminds me of a solid cam in an old V8.
I also have a slight burning smell after I shut of car. I can only smell it from outside the car, and it is pretty faint, but present.
Maybe I will luckout considering I have a different engine/trans.
I have noticed two things lately, I can hear a slight, but constant 'ticking' from the engine bay while idling and cruising under 2000 RPM. The rate of ticking varies with engine RPM. Kinda reminds me of a solid cam in an old V8.
I also have a slight burning smell after I shut of car. I can only smell it from outside the car, and it is pretty faint, but present.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-30-2006
Posts: 9,149
From: Maryland Heights, MO
Except for the self-created issues with my stereo, fixed by total aftermarket replacement, I have had no problems at all. Over 10,000 miles and counting!
Got the wife's approval for some MAJOR mods to keep me busy this winter, as they say, "More will be revealed".
Got the wife's approval for some MAJOR mods to keep me busy this winter, as they say, "More will be revealed".
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 184
From: Mission Valley, San Diego
Well I had the head resurfaced and a valve job done on mine when it went out to repair the problem. And even after that, the oil leaks would cause a good old burning oil smell to come in through the vents. As for ticket, can't say I have noticed anything like that, but after a point, I stopped caring what the hell the engine sounded like, it was in the dealer all the time.
Senior Member
Joined: 09-29-2006
Posts: 220
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by MEAN HHR
Geez, I hope I don't having the same issues with my Spring Edition....
Maybe I will luckout considering I have a different engine/trans.
I have noticed two things lately, I can hear a slight, but constant 'ticking' from the engine bay while idling and cruising under 2000 RPM. The rate of ticking varies with engine RPM. Kinda reminds me of a solid cam in an old V8.
I also have a slight burning smell after I shut of car. I can only smell it from outside the car, and it is pretty faint, but present.
Maybe I will luckout considering I have a different engine/trans.
I have noticed two things lately, I can hear a slight, but constant 'ticking' from the engine bay while idling and cruising under 2000 RPM. The rate of ticking varies with engine RPM. Kinda reminds me of a solid cam in an old V8.
I also have a slight burning smell after I shut of car. I can only smell it from outside the car, and it is pretty faint, but present.
Take it in, pronto.
Senior Member
Joined: 04-30-2006
Posts: 9,149
From: Maryland Heights, MO
Originally Posted by MEAN HHR
Geez, I hope I don't having the same issues with my Spring Edition....
Maybe I will luckout considering I have a different engine/trans.
I have noticed two things lately, I can hear a slight, but constant 'ticking' from the engine bay while idling and cruising under 2000 RPM. The rate of ticking varies with engine RPM. Kinda reminds me of a solid cam in an old V8.
I also have a slight burning smell after I shut of car. I can only smell it from outside the car, and it is pretty faint, but present.
Maybe I will luckout considering I have a different engine/trans.
I have noticed two things lately, I can hear a slight, but constant 'ticking' from the engine bay while idling and cruising under 2000 RPM. The rate of ticking varies with engine RPM. Kinda reminds me of a solid cam in an old V8.
I also have a slight burning smell after I shut of car. I can only smell it from outside the car, and it is pretty faint, but present.