Typical Wheel Shake and Questions on Tires
10-05-2011, 07:36 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-07-2010
Location: MD
Posts: 8
Typical Wheel Shake and Questions on Tires
My fiancee's 2009 HHR has the typical wheel shake described by a lot of other users; shakes at highway speeds, on braking, etc.
I've checked the Rotor thickness, and it's consistent around the rotor. They look good (no burns, no discoloration) and the pads are in decent shape. I measured runout (I think that's the right term for it) at the rotor's edge while rotating it. On the driver's side I got 0.001" variation, and the passenger side looked like 0".
I've read that the hubs can also go bad, and we're at 55k, so it's in that range where I've read it could happen. So my first question: how do I measure the play in the hubs? In other words, where does the dial caliper point, and what do I push/pull/wiggle to see if it moves? Am I looking for movement along the axle (i.e. in and out of the hub) or around the axle (i.e. left/right/up/down). Am I doing this with the rotor on? A picture would be worth 1000 words here, lol.
That leaves uneven lugnut torque as one possibility. I don't own a torque wrench yet, but I'm getting on that. (does anyone have the spec for lugnuts? 100 ft-lbs?) So next time I dick around with this, the lugs will be done to spec and that will eliminate that.
Now the tires are down to about 5/32, so we're approaching time for new ones. So once they're replaced, that eliminates everything I can think of for the wheel shake. Does anyone have a good recommendation on tires? I'm in Maryland, so I'll need all season and something that can handle the occasional snow. The future wife drives 50 minutes both ways to work, so good tires are important.
Thanks for reading this book I wrote!
I've checked the Rotor thickness, and it's consistent around the rotor. They look good (no burns, no discoloration) and the pads are in decent shape. I measured runout (I think that's the right term for it) at the rotor's edge while rotating it. On the driver's side I got 0.001" variation, and the passenger side looked like 0".
I've read that the hubs can also go bad, and we're at 55k, so it's in that range where I've read it could happen. So my first question: how do I measure the play in the hubs? In other words, where does the dial caliper point, and what do I push/pull/wiggle to see if it moves? Am I looking for movement along the axle (i.e. in and out of the hub) or around the axle (i.e. left/right/up/down). Am I doing this with the rotor on? A picture would be worth 1000 words here, lol.
That leaves uneven lugnut torque as one possibility. I don't own a torque wrench yet, but I'm getting on that. (does anyone have the spec for lugnuts? 100 ft-lbs?) So next time I dick around with this, the lugs will be done to spec and that will eliminate that.
Now the tires are down to about 5/32, so we're approaching time for new ones. So once they're replaced, that eliminates everything I can think of for the wheel shake. Does anyone have a good recommendation on tires? I'm in Maryland, so I'll need all season and something that can handle the occasional snow. The future wife drives 50 minutes both ways to work, so good tires are important.
Thanks for reading this book I wrote!
10-05-2011, 07:56 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-11-2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 149
I would say start with the tires as they may be the culprit, then go on to the rotors and hub assemblies. Measuring run out on the hub can be done somewhat, you have to remove the caliper and rotor and make sure the hub mounting surface is clean and then measure the runout while rotating the hub with a dial indicator. The car has to be jacked up and in neutral, it isn't easy but doable.
10-05-2011, 08:05 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-03-2011
Location: Western MD
Posts: 683
I'd suspect tires first with your wear at the point it is. Your tires probably haven't been balanced since they were put on the wheels new. Tires don't wear totally even across as well as around. I would think you need to weigh whether it's best to re-balance the wheels (at least the fronts) or go ahead and get new tires. Then go from there about the rotors vs. hubs.
Last edited by DaGrinch; 10-05-2011 at 08:48 AM.
10-05-2011, 08:31 AM
#4
Platinum Member
Join Date: 12-06-2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,089
Get new tires first. Then on to the other possibilities. If it is something other than tires it sounds like you'll fix any other worn parts. ( I'm putting my bet on the tires,like the other folks above) Good Luck.
10-05-2011, 09:08 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-07-2010
Location: MD
Posts: 8
I'm very much a do-it-yourselfer, so checking runout on the hubs is not a problem, so long as I'm understanding correctly how to do it. Am I measuring perpendicular to the axis of rotation? That makes the most sense to me, it'll show if the hub is rotating true.
I'm looking at getting a tire balancer (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ct_47571_47571), so I can check them and maintain them myself. I rotate them and keep them inflated to the recommended PSI, but I know they won't wear completely evenly and balance will probably be off at this point. The thing is, after I take the tires off and put them back on, it seems to go away for a while, then comes back, which leads me to think lugnut torque or something. Last time I touched it, all I did was take the tires off, measure rotors, and put the tires back on. So far, the shake is gone or at least very much reduced according to the fiancee, but it's been less than a week.
Since I'll be getting tires soon, what brands/styles have you guys had luck with? (215/55/16s on this bad boy, lol)
I'm looking at getting a tire balancer (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ct_47571_47571), so I can check them and maintain them myself. I rotate them and keep them inflated to the recommended PSI, but I know they won't wear completely evenly and balance will probably be off at this point. The thing is, after I take the tires off and put them back on, it seems to go away for a while, then comes back, which leads me to think lugnut torque or something. Last time I touched it, all I did was take the tires off, measure rotors, and put the tires back on. So far, the shake is gone or at least very much reduced according to the fiancee, but it's been less than a week.
Since I'll be getting tires soon, what brands/styles have you guys had luck with? (215/55/16s on this bad boy, lol)
11-16-2013, 12:20 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-26-2008
Location: Sequim Washington
Posts: 1,488
There are several good tire choices and each of us has their favorites.
I would say .. I'll let the others recommend their All Season Choices but if you want to get beyond those and go to a winter tire, I would strongly suggest the Michelin Ice 3 tire all around.
This is a tire that is considerably better in the winter than any all season I know of.
They will run true and smooth and not noisy either.
I have had a full set of 205/60R/16's on my 2011 2 LT since the fall of last year and I am impressed with the overall performance.
At normal air pressures they handle excellent all around.
They can be run all year around if you want to leave them on.
The only downside I can find is not the tires fault.
They will wear faster then most all season tires.
To help resolve that issue you can remove after winter is over but that requires you to have another set to put on for summer.
I decided to leave them on for all their benefits, and pay the price of faster wear.
As a credit back against the faster wear, you do not have to store winter or summer tires.
You do not have to have your tires demounted and mounted over and over each season as well as having them rebalanced and tire jockeys messing with your perfectly smooth running original set.
You should still rotate, and if you do you should tell the tire tech that yours go "front to rear same side only" as the Ice 3 tires are a directional tread design.
Inflate your tires 30lb. all around cold. Re check the pressures seasonaly as temps affect the base setting.
100ft pounds is correct but be shure to follow the recommended torque tightening pattern as well.
One last thing.
I would have the run out checked on each wheel to make sure you don't have a damaged one. Do all 4 as you will be rotating and fronts will be on rears and Vysa Versa.
SF
I would say .. I'll let the others recommend their All Season Choices but if you want to get beyond those and go to a winter tire, I would strongly suggest the Michelin Ice 3 tire all around.
This is a tire that is considerably better in the winter than any all season I know of.
They will run true and smooth and not noisy either.
I have had a full set of 205/60R/16's on my 2011 2 LT since the fall of last year and I am impressed with the overall performance.
At normal air pressures they handle excellent all around.
They can be run all year around if you want to leave them on.
The only downside I can find is not the tires fault.
They will wear faster then most all season tires.
To help resolve that issue you can remove after winter is over but that requires you to have another set to put on for summer.
I decided to leave them on for all their benefits, and pay the price of faster wear.
As a credit back against the faster wear, you do not have to store winter or summer tires.
You do not have to have your tires demounted and mounted over and over each season as well as having them rebalanced and tire jockeys messing with your perfectly smooth running original set.
You should still rotate, and if you do you should tell the tire tech that yours go "front to rear same side only" as the Ice 3 tires are a directional tread design.
Inflate your tires 30lb. all around cold. Re check the pressures seasonaly as temps affect the base setting.
100ft pounds is correct but be shure to follow the recommended torque tightening pattern as well.
One last thing.
I would have the run out checked on each wheel to make sure you don't have a damaged one. Do all 4 as you will be rotating and fronts will be on rears and Vysa Versa.
SF
11-16-2013, 12:38 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-01-2013
Location: Chula Vista CA
Posts: 182
Several questions and things to think about?
- What is the alignment, both front and rear?
- Does the shaking happen on all types of road surfaces or just rain grooved cement?
- Does the shaking get worse when braking?
- Does it shake when going backwards?
- Did it shake if tires were swapped front to rear?
- What sort of slop, if any are in the axles and CV joints?
- With a wheel off the ground, can you get any sideways movement if you shake the outer edge of the wheel?
- Do the wheels sit flat against the bolting surface?
- Is there any slop in the tie rod ends or other movable steering parts?
- Are the jam nuts in the steering system tightened as well as other nuts/bolts holding the front and rear suspension parts together?
In many years of racing old sports cars I have seem some of these happen to "well maintained" cars!
- What is the alignment, both front and rear?
- Does the shaking happen on all types of road surfaces or just rain grooved cement?
- Does the shaking get worse when braking?
- Does it shake when going backwards?
- Did it shake if tires were swapped front to rear?
- What sort of slop, if any are in the axles and CV joints?
- With a wheel off the ground, can you get any sideways movement if you shake the outer edge of the wheel?
- Do the wheels sit flat against the bolting surface?
- Is there any slop in the tie rod ends or other movable steering parts?
- Are the jam nuts in the steering system tightened as well as other nuts/bolts holding the front and rear suspension parts together?
In many years of racing old sports cars I have seem some of these happen to "well maintained" cars!
11-16-2013, 01:21 PM
#10
Platinum Member
Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,032
Firemangeorge - you are right - the member is now back posting about other issues elsewhere, and I figured he would pick back up on his old post, and maybe give us an update.
check out: https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/problems-service-repairs-42/check-engine-help-p0303-48543/ the dreaded P0303 code!!! I'm beginning to hate seeing that code here.
check out: https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/problems-service-repairs-42/check-engine-help-p0303-48543/ the dreaded P0303 code!!! I'm beginning to hate seeing that code here.