GM Policy on Piston damage with Mods
05-15-2010, 12:22 PM
#1
Founding Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-23-2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,210
GM Policy on Piston damage with Mods
Subject: Engine Misfire/Low Compression
Models: 2008-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt, HHR
2008-2010 Pontiac Solstice
2008-2010 Saturn SKY
2008-2009 Daewoo G2X
2008-2010 Opel GT
Equipped with 2.0L Engine (VIN X - RPO LNF)
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Condition/Concern:
Some 2.0L Turbo engines may come in with a misfire on one cylinder.
For further misfire diagnosis, a technician should perform a compression test. The results may lead to a cylinder with low compression (85-90 psi). This may be the cause the misfire. The cylinder with the low compression may have a burned/ damaged piston from detonation. The damage to the piston is usually above and below the first compression ring in an area about 25.4 mm (1 in) in length.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Damage of this type to the piston is usually caused by aftermarket equipment (examples are: air induction systems, intercooler cooling devices, NOS systems, ECM calibrations), all designed to boost the output of the engine. This increased output of the engine can lead to severe detonation in certain conditions. If diagnosed with this condition, the vehicle should be inspected for aftermarket performance equipment and/or calibrations (Refer to bulletin 08-06-04-033C for help on Identifying calibrations) and it should be noted on the repair order.
The GM Accessories power upgrade kit by itself is designed for this engine and should be the recommended performance enhancing equipment. Using the GM accessory kit with other aftermarket components could damage the engine as well.
If repairs to the engine are the result of the installation or use of a non-GM approved part, the warranty will not be honored.
Models: 2008-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt, HHR
2008-2010 Pontiac Solstice
2008-2010 Saturn SKY
2008-2009 Daewoo G2X
2008-2010 Opel GT
Equipped with 2.0L Engine (VIN X - RPO LNF)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Condition/Concern:
Some 2.0L Turbo engines may come in with a misfire on one cylinder.
For further misfire diagnosis, a technician should perform a compression test. The results may lead to a cylinder with low compression (85-90 psi). This may be the cause the misfire. The cylinder with the low compression may have a burned/ damaged piston from detonation. The damage to the piston is usually above and below the first compression ring in an area about 25.4 mm (1 in) in length.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Damage of this type to the piston is usually caused by aftermarket equipment (examples are: air induction systems, intercooler cooling devices, NOS systems, ECM calibrations), all designed to boost the output of the engine. This increased output of the engine can lead to severe detonation in certain conditions. If diagnosed with this condition, the vehicle should be inspected for aftermarket performance equipment and/or calibrations (Refer to bulletin 08-06-04-033C for help on Identifying calibrations) and it should be noted on the repair order.
The GM Accessories power upgrade kit by itself is designed for this engine and should be the recommended performance enhancing equipment. Using the GM accessory kit with other aftermarket components could damage the engine as well.
If repairs to the engine are the result of the installation or use of a non-GM approved part, the warranty will not be honored.
05-15-2010, 12:31 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-29-2008
Location: Mass
Posts: 727
Every SS drivetrain problem
will probably be blamed on aftermarket parts from now on.
for example. ChevyMGR posted GM's latest TSB
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/show...&postcount=139
for example. ChevyMGR posted GM's latest TSB
https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/show...&postcount=139
05-15-2010, 05:40 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-27-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,115
That is their option, and frankly I'll have to say I am on GM's side on this one. A burned piston from excessive detonation is not a design or build quality flaw. I am amazed how much power we can conjur up out of this little motor, but I sure would not expect GM to warranty a modified engine.
The characters that modify and tune Duramax motors to big horsepower numbers and then expect GM to pop for a $13,000.00+ repair bill are way out of line IMHO.
The characters that modify and tune Duramax motors to big horsepower numbers and then expect GM to pop for a $13,000.00+ repair bill are way out of line IMHO.
05-15-2010, 05:58 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-24-2010
Location: MI
Posts: 472
That is their option, and frankly I'll have to say I am on GM's side on this one. A burned piston from excessive detonation is not a design or build quality flaw. I am amazed how much power we can conjur up out of this little motor, but I sure would not expect GM to warranty a modified engine.
The characters that modify and tune Duramax motors to big horsepower numbers and then expect GM to pop for a $13,000.00+ repair bill are way out of line IMHO.
The characters that modify and tune Duramax motors to big horsepower numbers and then expect GM to pop for a $13,000.00+ repair bill are way out of line IMHO.
05-15-2010, 06:56 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-16-2009
Location: South
Posts: 751
I expect nothing less from GM (I'm sure the rest of the world agrees).
GM better be ready to fight some people in court if they are going to try and blame detonation and low compression on intercooler related parts. If anything the aftermarket intercoolers and charge pipe are better quality then what GM put in these vehicles (plastic end tanks just isn't cutting it). Now if someone were to have an aftermarket tune or after market turbo I can see the warranty denial claim.
I know there are plenty of people who run the GMS1 with and after market intercooler and charge pipes. Not everyone who has bolt on stuff is running after market tunes.
To you people that say you support GM on this, they've had a few cars (mainly cobalt ss/tc's), around 5 that has been confirmed on various forums (a HHR SS being one) that the piston failed on a stock tune and/or GMS1 tune and yes after market tuned vehicles also.
Given the broad range of different tunes breaking the pistons and everything from pure factory parts to after market parts on those cars, that its not so much an after market parts problem causing the pistons to destroy, as it is maybe poor quality control issue on some pistons that are getting through and into some engines.
GM better be ready to fight some people in court if they are going to try and blame detonation and low compression on intercooler related parts. If anything the aftermarket intercoolers and charge pipe are better quality then what GM put in these vehicles (plastic end tanks just isn't cutting it). Now if someone were to have an aftermarket tune or after market turbo I can see the warranty denial claim.
I know there are plenty of people who run the GMS1 with and after market intercooler and charge pipes. Not everyone who has bolt on stuff is running after market tunes.
To you people that say you support GM on this, they've had a few cars (mainly cobalt ss/tc's), around 5 that has been confirmed on various forums (a HHR SS being one) that the piston failed on a stock tune and/or GMS1 tune and yes after market tuned vehicles also.
Given the broad range of different tunes breaking the pistons and everything from pure factory parts to after market parts on those cars, that its not so much an after market parts problem causing the pistons to destroy, as it is maybe poor quality control issue on some pistons that are getting through and into some engines.
05-15-2010, 07:26 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-05-2009
Location: Cahokia IL
Posts: 358
This type of policy is not just GM....it has been coming for sometime.
They try to boost the bottom line, and thus their share price on the stock market, by shifting blame. Instead of taking their customer's concerns into account they simply shift the blame for faulty parts or manufacturing processes to the consumer and on to the aftermarket.
They bank on the inability of the average consumer [you and I] not being able to put forth a court battle to establish that they are at fault.
As long as no class action suit is involved then they [and their lawyers] win!
They consider this policy as "Instant Profit" and you and I can go to hell.
It happens in many industry s not just GM!
They try to boost the bottom line, and thus their share price on the stock market, by shifting blame. Instead of taking their customer's concerns into account they simply shift the blame for faulty parts or manufacturing processes to the consumer and on to the aftermarket.
They bank on the inability of the average consumer [you and I] not being able to put forth a court battle to establish that they are at fault.
As long as no class action suit is involved then they [and their lawyers] win!
They consider this policy as "Instant Profit" and you and I can go to hell.
It happens in many industry s not just GM!
05-15-2010, 08:13 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
This is nothing new as if you had modified a Vette with a supercharger back in 1985 and burned a piston they would not have covered it either. Today you burn a piston on NOS no one is going to do anything either.
Anytime you modify a car there is no reason to expect a MFG to take care of it. If you race a car you break it you pay for it. Race cars have no warranties.
When you change any car from stock it is the owners place to take responsibility for his actions and stop they to pawn off things on the MFG.
The MFG spend a lot of money to idiot proof their cars and cover them with a good warranty. So if they take responsibility for their work why should they take responsibility for the guy who leaned out his engine with a bad programer or bad fuel pump with his NOS kit.
In this case GM at least offers a kit that is covered. Many of the parts from Ford Motorsport, Direct Connect and some GM performance parts are sold as is and will not only void the warranty on your car but will also not be covered under any warranty on the part.
Most in the performance aftermarket will only cover the part they sold you and that part only. If your Oil pump fails and wipes the engine they will give you a new pump and a pump only.
Companies may be protecting the bottom line but they also are protecting themselves from many dishonest customer. Society today teaches to lay the responsibility on someone else if you can get awayt with it. Very many do and the Honest people are becoming more and more rare.
Yes companies may do some dishonest things but they are far from being alone Dishonest customer are far from rare and anymore are becoming the norm. At least the ones who complain as those who know better seldom complain.
To GM and some dealers I have seen and even had them take care of things they did not have to do. The biggest was my dads Old lost a computer after his 50,000 warranty. They went ahead and took care of the issue and by doing so made a sale the next year when he replaced the car.
It is just time to man up and do like people for years have done a be responisble for a vehicle that you modified. If you want GM to take care of it leave the dang thing alone.
A few years back the 04 GTP with the Series III 3800 SC engine had a bad aftermarket tune out. SOme of the people who bought it would break 1-2 pistons if they used this tune. They went to the dealer only to get rejected. It was not GM's fault the tune was bad. If the customers had left it alone it would have never happened.
I don't care what it is if you change somthing from stock no matter what you are on your own at that point. You have made yourself the tuner and engineer at that point and you need to take the reponsibility.
Like stated the Diesel guys have abused this to the hilt and cost the companies tons of money till they wised up.
Like I have stated before you want a warranty get the GM upgrade if not get what you want but be willing to pay for anything that fails.
Anytime you modify a car there is no reason to expect a MFG to take care of it. If you race a car you break it you pay for it. Race cars have no warranties.
When you change any car from stock it is the owners place to take responsibility for his actions and stop they to pawn off things on the MFG.
The MFG spend a lot of money to idiot proof their cars and cover them with a good warranty. So if they take responsibility for their work why should they take responsibility for the guy who leaned out his engine with a bad programer or bad fuel pump with his NOS kit.
In this case GM at least offers a kit that is covered. Many of the parts from Ford Motorsport, Direct Connect and some GM performance parts are sold as is and will not only void the warranty on your car but will also not be covered under any warranty on the part.
Most in the performance aftermarket will only cover the part they sold you and that part only. If your Oil pump fails and wipes the engine they will give you a new pump and a pump only.
Companies may be protecting the bottom line but they also are protecting themselves from many dishonest customer. Society today teaches to lay the responsibility on someone else if you can get awayt with it. Very many do and the Honest people are becoming more and more rare.
Yes companies may do some dishonest things but they are far from being alone Dishonest customer are far from rare and anymore are becoming the norm. At least the ones who complain as those who know better seldom complain.
To GM and some dealers I have seen and even had them take care of things they did not have to do. The biggest was my dads Old lost a computer after his 50,000 warranty. They went ahead and took care of the issue and by doing so made a sale the next year when he replaced the car.
It is just time to man up and do like people for years have done a be responisble for a vehicle that you modified. If you want GM to take care of it leave the dang thing alone.
A few years back the 04 GTP with the Series III 3800 SC engine had a bad aftermarket tune out. SOme of the people who bought it would break 1-2 pistons if they used this tune. They went to the dealer only to get rejected. It was not GM's fault the tune was bad. If the customers had left it alone it would have never happened.
I don't care what it is if you change somthing from stock no matter what you are on your own at that point. You have made yourself the tuner and engineer at that point and you need to take the reponsibility.
Like stated the Diesel guys have abused this to the hilt and cost the companies tons of money till they wised up.
Like I have stated before you want a warranty get the GM upgrade if not get what you want but be willing to pay for anything that fails.