Installed My G-Tech...
02-15-2006, 10:49 PM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-14-2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,359
Well, I know I can outdrive any 5-speed. Just looking at the times shows that.
Car & Driver posted 16.1 (5-speed), and 16.6 (Auto), and I'm turning 15.86's.
A lot of time is lost shifting in HHR's - the throw is immensely long, whereas shifting is instant with the auto.
Car & Driver posted 16.1 (5-speed), and 16.6 (Auto), and I'm turning 15.86's.
A lot of time is lost shifting in HHR's - the throw is immensely long, whereas shifting is instant with the auto.
02-15-2006, 10:51 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-29-2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by SoCalHHR
You are waaay off on this. The G-tech TOTALLY takes into effect aerodynamics and gives a truly accurate reading. Don't believe me - watch THIS video.
DYNO's do not take into account the effects of poor aerodynamics. the G-Tech is giving you actual readings of your speed, rpms, distance travelled, and G-forces sustained, which translates into the actual performance of your car. And, unlike many other systems on the market, the G-techs use three separate axis' accellerometers to increase accuracy.
Even supposing you were right and the G-Tech is way off (which it's not), - it still would be a valuable tool for comparison runs against a baseline to check whether your mods are increasing speed/response or not. Watch the video and see how it compares to the track timer...
Regarding this:
"Your gonna need a lot more hp than 215 to break into the 14's."
Why not just go HERE and enter in the data for yourself. To break into high 14.s (14.97), that's what it comes out to.
Let's play nice for a change...
DYNO's do not take into account the effects of poor aerodynamics. the G-Tech is giving you actual readings of your speed, rpms, distance travelled, and G-forces sustained, which translates into the actual performance of your car. And, unlike many other systems on the market, the G-techs use three separate axis' accellerometers to increase accuracy.
Even supposing you were right and the G-Tech is way off (which it's not), - it still would be a valuable tool for comparison runs against a baseline to check whether your mods are increasing speed/response or not. Watch the video and see how it compares to the track timer...
Regarding this:
"Your gonna need a lot more hp than 215 to break into the 14's."
Why not just go HERE and enter in the data for yourself. To break into high 14.s (14.97), that's what it comes out to.
Let's play nice for a change...
02-15-2006, 10:52 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-29-2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by SoCalHHR
Well, I know I can outdrive any 5-speed. Just looking at the times shows that.
Car & Driver posted 16.1 (5-speed), and 16.6 (Auto), and I'm turning 15.86's.
A lot of time is lost shifting in HHR's - the throw is immensely long, whereas shifting is instant with the auto.
Car & Driver posted 16.1 (5-speed), and 16.6 (Auto), and I'm turning 15.86's.
A lot of time is lost shifting in HHR's - the throw is immensely long, whereas shifting is instant with the auto.
02-16-2006, 12:11 AM
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-14-2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,359
"Are you trying to tell me that a G-Tech is more accurate than a dyno??"
Regarding 1/4-mile times it most certainly is. The G-tech measures actual ground horsepower - and that is what takes you through the traps. Dynos give a more accurate representation of actual engine horsepower, but by the time you subtract engine movement from motor mounts, transmission (or clutch) slippage, other driveline loss from CV joints and half-shafts - you still have slippage from poor traction - a dyno can never account for all these factors. There are plenty of "tricks" you can use to get good dyno numbers. Actual "ground horsepower" is what you need to get moving fast.
Of course you should know all this, being a mechanic. Why don't you just get hold of a G-Tech and make your own comparisons - I have! They are very accurate.
I also have plenty of confidence in my driving - and I'm willing to show you anytime you want to drop by...
P.S. Talk is cheap = bring your keys & pink slip.
Regarding 1/4-mile times it most certainly is. The G-tech measures actual ground horsepower - and that is what takes you through the traps. Dynos give a more accurate representation of actual engine horsepower, but by the time you subtract engine movement from motor mounts, transmission (or clutch) slippage, other driveline loss from CV joints and half-shafts - you still have slippage from poor traction - a dyno can never account for all these factors. There are plenty of "tricks" you can use to get good dyno numbers. Actual "ground horsepower" is what you need to get moving fast.
Of course you should know all this, being a mechanic. Why don't you just get hold of a G-Tech and make your own comparisons - I have! They are very accurate.
I also have plenty of confidence in my driving - and I'm willing to show you anytime you want to drop by...
P.S. Talk is cheap = bring your keys & pink slip.
Last edited by SoCalHHR; 02-16-2006 at 01:11 AM.
02-16-2006, 07:41 AM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-20-2006
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by SoCalHHR
Well, I know I can outdrive any 5-speed. Just looking at the times shows that.
Car & Driver posted 16.1 (5-speed), and 16.6 (Auto), and I'm turning 15.86's.
A lot of time is lost shifting in HHR's - the throw is immensely long, whereas shifting is instant with the auto.
Car & Driver posted 16.1 (5-speed), and 16.6 (Auto), and I'm turning 15.86's.
A lot of time is lost shifting in HHR's - the throw is immensely long, whereas shifting is instant with the auto.
02-16-2006, 08:52 AM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-29-2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by SoCalHHR
"Are you trying to tell me that a G-Tech is more accurate than a dyno??"
Regarding 1/4-mile times it most certainly is. The G-tech measures actual ground horsepower - and that is what takes you through the traps. Dynos give a more accurate representation of actual engine horsepower, but by the time you subtract engine movement from motor mounts, transmission (or clutch) slippage, other driveline loss from CV joints and half-shafts - you still have slippage from poor traction - a dyno can never account for all these factors. There are plenty of "tricks" you can use to get good dyno numbers. Actual "ground horsepower" is what you need to get moving fast.
Of course you should know all this, being a mechanic. Why don't you just get hold of a G-Tech and make your own comparisons - I have! They are very accurate.
I also have plenty of confidence in my driving - and I'm willing to show you anytime you want to drop by...
P.S. Talk is cheap = bring your keys & pink slip.
Regarding 1/4-mile times it most certainly is. The G-tech measures actual ground horsepower - and that is what takes you through the traps. Dynos give a more accurate representation of actual engine horsepower, but by the time you subtract engine movement from motor mounts, transmission (or clutch) slippage, other driveline loss from CV joints and half-shafts - you still have slippage from poor traction - a dyno can never account for all these factors. There are plenty of "tricks" you can use to get good dyno numbers. Actual "ground horsepower" is what you need to get moving fast.
Of course you should know all this, being a mechanic. Why don't you just get hold of a G-Tech and make your own comparisons - I have! They are very accurate.
I also have plenty of confidence in my driving - and I'm willing to show you anytime you want to drop by...
P.S. Talk is cheap = bring your keys & pink slip.
02-16-2006, 09:00 AM
#28
Banned
Join Date: 10-14-2005
Location: Rochester,N.Y.
Posts: 9,121
Originally Posted by snksknr94
Is HHR.net a parallel universe or something, everything that is common knowledge on every other car forum on the net is the exact opposite here.
But it's not just this site it's all HHR sites. 
HHR owners are an odd bunch when it comes to technical know how and weird theories on how vehicles work. 
Wait....did I just insult myself in that last sentence? Now I have succeeded in offending myself! 
02-16-2006, 10:27 AM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 10-14-2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,359
Anyone local to SoCal with a 5-speed HHR contact me. We need one to finalize some numbers for the AEM intake. You will get your dyno numbers from the testing plus a FREE intake as soon as it is released.
Also, perhaps we can have a drag race as well to put this thing to rest. We can meet at Pomona or Irwindale for anyone interested. Shoot me an email.
I'll be out most of today getting some sidepipes installed, but will try to respond to emails this afternoon. Thanks.
Also, perhaps we can have a drag race as well to put this thing to rest. We can meet at Pomona or Irwindale for anyone interested. Shoot me an email.
I'll be out most of today getting some sidepipes installed, but will try to respond to emails this afternoon. Thanks.
02-16-2006, 10:56 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-18-2005
Location: TX
Posts: 163
Skinner is right. Dyno gives you actual HP at the wheels. All mechanical losses are already taken out. However, Dynos don't (ans can't) take into account Aerodynamics. That's why Dyno results on cars and motorcycles with ram air don't give you accurate results.
SoCal is right too though. G-Tec uses all of those velocity, acceleration, horsepower, efficiency... equations that I learned in college and applies them with the values it measures from the GPS, accelerometers, and the other values that are user defined. So it gives you the mathematically exact figures.
The real truth lies somewhere in between.
I did an experiment in a fluids lab in college where we actually dyno'ed an engine - straight output from the engine - no mechanical losses. Then took all kinds of measurements of the engine during operation to calculate theoretical HP. Results were quite a bit different.
And my point... I don't know. I guess I agree with Snake and SoCal. Either method will work just fine for delta changes before and after mods. Just make sure you use the same method before and after. G-Tec vs Dyno is never going to give you an aples-to-apples comparison. Beyond that, prove it on the track. Reaction time, shifting expertise, and the perfomance of your specific car at that exact instant is what really matters.
Sounds like an episode of PINKS is in the works...
SoCal is right too though. G-Tec uses all of those velocity, acceleration, horsepower, efficiency... equations that I learned in college and applies them with the values it measures from the GPS, accelerometers, and the other values that are user defined. So it gives you the mathematically exact figures.
The real truth lies somewhere in between.
I did an experiment in a fluids lab in college where we actually dyno'ed an engine - straight output from the engine - no mechanical losses. Then took all kinds of measurements of the engine during operation to calculate theoretical HP. Results were quite a bit different.
And my point... I don't know. I guess I agree with Snake and SoCal. Either method will work just fine for delta changes before and after mods. Just make sure you use the same method before and after. G-Tec vs Dyno is never going to give you an aples-to-apples comparison. Beyond that, prove it on the track. Reaction time, shifting expertise, and the perfomance of your specific car at that exact instant is what really matters.
Sounds like an episode of PINKS is in the works...