Lighter pullies installed -md- HHR this is for you
Senior Member
Joined: 10-02-2005
Posts: 1,245
From: VA
Jason, I also built and raced under 2.0L race engines before you were born, so "little motors" are not foreign ground to me.
Call it want you want... flame or whatever, but you are a true product of modern advertising and hype, predominate in today's magazines supported by vendors who deceive people about the "benefits" of their products. And they are very thankful for your and your friend's "beliefs".
Have you ever tried any of these things like pulleys on an engine dynometer and recorded the results? Been there, done that.
"PROVEN GAIN", my a$$.... Show us links and educate us.
I don't care what the product is.... In today's marketing climate, 90% of the "claims" out there are total BS.
Did anyone actually buy Dyno-Tabs from SoCalHHRs??
With that, I'm out of this discussion. For any folks interested in educating themselves, look for other sources than some ricer mag supported by companies trying to sell you their products. Unfortunately, it get harder all the time to find the factual stuff these days.
Call it want you want... flame or whatever, but you are a true product of modern advertising and hype, predominate in today's magazines supported by vendors who deceive people about the "benefits" of their products. And they are very thankful for your and your friend's "beliefs".
Have you ever tried any of these things like pulleys on an engine dynometer and recorded the results? Been there, done that.
"PROVEN GAIN", my a$$.... Show us links and educate us.
I don't care what the product is.... In today's marketing climate, 90% of the "claims" out there are total BS.
Did anyone actually buy Dyno-Tabs from SoCalHHRs??
With that, I'm out of this discussion. For any folks interested in educating themselves, look for other sources than some ricer mag supported by companies trying to sell you their products. Unfortunately, it get harder all the time to find the factual stuff these days.
Member
Joined: 01-04-2007
Posts: 47
From: Tucson, Az.
time and time again i hear from people like you. very ignorant. just because i said ''i've heard'' doesn't mean i don't know. get over yourself. i was just sharing info aboot a subject jason and i have researched alot. there are actuall proven gains from pullies. do more research.
for someone who didn't want to get pissy aboot it. you sure did.
the claimed hp is within reason.
for someone who didn't want to get pissy aboot it. you sure did.
the claimed hp is within reason.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-13-2006
Posts: 1,059
From: Tucson, AZ
I had a 1995 Honda Prelude. H22A4 VTEC. NOTHING on this motor was left alone. Balanced. Blueprinted. Higher comp pistons. 5 angle valve job. Extrude honed head. Springs. Cams. Cam gears. EVERYTHING was done and DONE RIGHT. There was a proven 8hp and 5ft lbs from an Unorthodox kit like the one I linked. WITH JUST THE PULLEYS. Now I know Honda's are NOT the torque monsters of the 4 banger world, but this was ON a dyno. Performed by Apex R motorsports here in Tucson, AZ. The pulley swap went on when all I had were simple bolt ons. CAI, header, exhaust. I made 203hp and 162ft lbs before and 211hp and 167ft lbs AFTER the pulley swap. All done on the same day with a couple hours of eachother. So leave the thread cause you're wrong and tired of being proven this. Its cool. And let people be.
This WHOLE website has so many negative people on it that think performance should be left to the bigger cars. Well I say
that! These are OUR generation's hot rods. These are OUR Chevelles, Novas, Mustangs, and Camaros. The INEXPENSIVE cars that have an abundant aftermarket. Try buying a nice v8 'stang now and its 24-28k AT LEAST!! Sorry but that is a little beyond my means and a lot of others I know as well. To those that think this little cars are better left as "grocery getters" and think attempting to get any kind of performance out of them is stupid. Then shut up and stay the out of the performance threads. Leave those that give a darn alone and let us be. THIS is why I never got along well with SoCal and the same reason you are making a fool out of yourself. Mis-education of an older generation that grew up with cheap cars that ran on LEADED gas. When the horsepower wars were in full swing and a cheap car could be purchased with a Hemi, bigblock, 330 Max Wedge, Cobra jet, or anything with CI that MADE mean TORQUE AND HORSES. SO again, please leave the performance minded people alone with our desire for more ponies. Thank you. 
Member
Joined: 01-04-2007
Posts: 47
From: Tucson, Az.
well said sir.↑ to me it just seemed JoeR was pointing out his opinion n not facts. seems that he doesn't like to use pulleys, which is fine, but that doesn't mean you trash someone else for their work. technology has changed now and we don't tune with a screwdriver anymore. it's all on a keypad. don't get me wrong. i own a classic, a 55 cameo, and hot rods are my passion. but these cars are interesting n fun to play with. it's interesting how much power these little motors can make from small mods.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-23-2006
Posts: 578
From: Northeast Ohio in the Lake
Granted, but we are talking ounces, not pounds, and the diameter is not that much. I totally understand the concept, last truck I removed the stock fan/clutch setup for a pair of 14" electrics. Yes I could tell the engine would spin more freely. I understand it is freeing up power and not "making" it. But the results show up on a dyno as gained HP/TQ at the wheels. I can believe 2/3, but 8? That would reqire proof for me to believe. Sorry.
ok, heres some proof. Stock crank 64 oz Cast Iron
My crank pulley 23oz t6-6061 Aluminum
Stock alternator pulley 6oz, steel
My alternator pulley 3oz, T6-6061 Aluminum
This is worst case for both runs. BEST baseline run, and worse after pulley run.
You do not gain power you free power that is being wasted turning the heavier pulleys, and also tell all the people the LOVE my pulleys they wasted their money.
I hate getting into a pissing match, so let's agree to keep it civil and to the point. 
Crankshaft at 1/3 the weight?? Don't think so, unless you built it out of hollow aluminum, which would only last a very short time.
As far as the HP claims, what else was changed in your before / after tests? Complete rebuild, larger bore, new rings, just new plugs, etc.?? As for the HP claims based upon pulleys alone, I will flatly state that it is impossible! I said it bofore and I'll say it again... When you are measuring HP or torque on a chassis dyno, EVERY rotating assembly, from the front of the engine, to the internals, including the reciprocating mass of the pistons and rods and the rotational enertia of every component, from the alternator, any pulleys, crankshaft, cams, gears, balance shafts, flywheel, torque converter (manual or auto), every transmission gear, driveshafts, hubs, brakes, wheels and finally the tires, comes into play on the total rotational mass enertia that has to be overcome to accelerate the vehicle. The drive pulleys are such an infinitesmal component of this that any benefit would be nearly immeasurable!!
If you want to flaunt your claimed degree, you missed some important principles. If you're trying to "trump" me, I'll just state that "my degree is bigger than your's", and I was building race cars and engines long before your parents thought of having sex.
So, let's not play that game.
Unfortunately, there is so much myth, lore and outright BS put out from false advertising, then friends telling others that "I have read..." or "I have heard..." that the average person actually starts believing and if they buy into it, convinces themselves that "Yeh, I can tell a difference...". 
And, finally, some are asking how to buy this... Better look into becoming a Supporting Vendor here soon. Then you can make any questionable claims and sell your product to the masses.
Crankshaft at 1/3 the weight?? Don't think so, unless you built it out of hollow aluminum, which would only last a very short time.
As far as the HP claims, what else was changed in your before / after tests? Complete rebuild, larger bore, new rings, just new plugs, etc.?? As for the HP claims based upon pulleys alone, I will flatly state that it is impossible! I said it bofore and I'll say it again... When you are measuring HP or torque on a chassis dyno, EVERY rotating assembly, from the front of the engine, to the internals, including the reciprocating mass of the pistons and rods and the rotational enertia of every component, from the alternator, any pulleys, crankshaft, cams, gears, balance shafts, flywheel, torque converter (manual or auto), every transmission gear, driveshafts, hubs, brakes, wheels and finally the tires, comes into play on the total rotational mass enertia that has to be overcome to accelerate the vehicle. The drive pulleys are such an infinitesmal component of this that any benefit would be nearly immeasurable!!
If you want to flaunt your claimed degree, you missed some important principles. If you're trying to "trump" me, I'll just state that "my degree is bigger than your's", and I was building race cars and engines long before your parents thought of having sex.
So, let's not play that game.Unfortunately, there is so much myth, lore and outright BS put out from false advertising, then friends telling others that "I have read..." or "I have heard..." that the average person actually starts believing and if they buy into it, convinces themselves that "Yeh, I can tell a difference...".
And, finally, some are asking how to buy this... Better look into becoming a Supporting Vendor here soon. Then you can make any questionable claims and sell your product to the masses.
Nothing, but an oil change was done besides changing the pulleys. Also Tell Cleveland State, and my professor that was there on dyno days that I lied. He went over my cavalier with a fine tooth comb. If I try hard enough I bet I could have my old prof. send me all my data again. "They keep it for a display." He like you, didn't believe the gains could be done, but changed his mine when he say it with his own eyes.
I always love beating people like you at the track... It really pisses them off when a supercharged cavalier hands them their ass in there brand new fox body.
Also call Hutter performance, and ask for Trevor he will be at the shop after 9.
I guess guys who build nascar motors have no idea on how to run a dyno right.
If you want to get in a real pissing contest, argue with my customers.
From one of my customers.
Yeah,
MDs is the only one that installed like an OEM pulley.
Meaning,
The Unorthodox and RSM pulleys didn't require pulley pullers to get on and off.
You could slide them on and off like water.
Now, that's not a bad thing per say.
But I didn't even notice it until I got MD's
His, like the factory pulley, you have to use (I had to), the pulley bolt to get it on.
And a pulley puller to get it off.
Fitment was nice and tight like OEM.
Weight wise its like a 2-3 oz. diff. Personally weighed on the same USPS scale
RSM underdrive 11oz (THE lightest but my car is an auto and that was just too light for my liking)
Unorthordox underdrive 14 oz
RSM factory size 21oz
MD LD9 custom 23 oz
Factory was 63.6 oz
Only ones I've not tried are the Apex factory sized. Can't remember the weight.
And the ebay/RK geneic underdrive pulley. But I hear that's over a pound and a half.
So if you want factory sized, go for MD's
Hopefully he has a couple left.
-Mastin-
Application LD9 J-body
Senior Member
Joined: 07-25-2006
Posts: 1,198
From: Enid, Oklahoma
Okay... let me see if I'm reading that sheet right. You had a 7HP gain just with the lightweight pullies?
I can't see which line is which (color-blind maybe)... but the left side of the sheet has numbers titled "total power", and it went from 152 to 159 for the top number.
Pretty f-n cool
I can't see which line is which (color-blind maybe)... but the left side of the sheet has numbers titled "total power", and it went from 152 to 159 for the top number.
Pretty f-n cool
