Not Sure 2.4 or SS
Senior Member
Joined: 07-10-2008
Posts: 423
From: Not necessarily Humbolt County
I went through exactly the same decision process. 2LT or SS. The 2LT gives you the leather/heated seats and more flash. The SS gives you an LS with lots of power. The FE5 is somewhat stiffer than the FE3 suspension but not all that much. There were little things I had to consider like having to get an 09 2LT to get the window switch on the doors (but the 08 SS got them from the start). I could still live with the switches in the console though. That's where they are in the GTO.
One bias was that I was going from a GTO to a smaller car and my wife thought I would always wish I had gotten the SS, but my mind-set had changed. I wanted to go towards hyper-mileage and away from brute power. I loved the GTO but my goals changes. Been there, done it - it was time to head in a different direction.
I drove a ton of 2.4L 2LT's and the 2.4L for 95% of my driving would have been plenty of power. Both the auto and 5 spd pulled great and I didn't feel like I was having to push it. The 2.4L is not a wimpy little engine. The SS through most of it's throttle feels like a strong 2.4L. It's that last bit where you see the real power but I just rarely ever go there.
In the end I decided that if I could find either at the right price and color (I love white) I would take it. In my case the SS 5spd came along at a price I couldn't refuse so I got it. But there were a couple of white 2LT's that if they had been willing to bargain on, I would have driven home.
I will say the leather in the 2LT doesn't feel like premium leather (but I am comparing it to a GTO and SRX). My wife didn't think it would hold up over the years. The SS cloth is better than the LS/LT cloth by a long shot. But no leather - no seat heaters.
I wouldn't hesitate to get a loaded 2LT if the price was right. With my SS, I rarely use the additional power and I have to add some of the features I gave up not getting the 2LT (like heated seats). But I could have gone either way in a flash.
An LS or 1LT were never under consideration.
I do wonder about the reliability of the SS 2.0L direct injection. That was also swinging me to the 2.4L 2LT but only time will tell. However, once the thrill of the SS power wore off, the 2LT seems like just as good of an option unless you plan on making lots of use of the power and suspension.
One bias was that I was going from a GTO to a smaller car and my wife thought I would always wish I had gotten the SS, but my mind-set had changed. I wanted to go towards hyper-mileage and away from brute power. I loved the GTO but my goals changes. Been there, done it - it was time to head in a different direction.
I drove a ton of 2.4L 2LT's and the 2.4L for 95% of my driving would have been plenty of power. Both the auto and 5 spd pulled great and I didn't feel like I was having to push it. The 2.4L is not a wimpy little engine. The SS through most of it's throttle feels like a strong 2.4L. It's that last bit where you see the real power but I just rarely ever go there.
In the end I decided that if I could find either at the right price and color (I love white) I would take it. In my case the SS 5spd came along at a price I couldn't refuse so I got it. But there were a couple of white 2LT's that if they had been willing to bargain on, I would have driven home.
I will say the leather in the 2LT doesn't feel like premium leather (but I am comparing it to a GTO and SRX). My wife didn't think it would hold up over the years. The SS cloth is better than the LS/LT cloth by a long shot. But no leather - no seat heaters.
I wouldn't hesitate to get a loaded 2LT if the price was right. With my SS, I rarely use the additional power and I have to add some of the features I gave up not getting the 2LT (like heated seats). But I could have gone either way in a flash.
An LS or 1LT were never under consideration.
I do wonder about the reliability of the SS 2.0L direct injection. That was also swinging me to the 2.4L 2LT but only time will tell. However, once the thrill of the SS power wore off, the 2LT seems like just as good of an option unless you plan on making lots of use of the power and suspension.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-15-2008
Posts: 1,599
From: Newburgh, NY
Same here when I shopped for my HHR.
I zeroed in on a 2008 HHR 2LT (silver out/grey in) with leather, heated seats, etc. I also found a 2008 HHR SS (black out/ebony in). Both were preowned units. The 2LT had 22k mi and the SS had 6.7k mi. The 2LT was $12k and the SS was $16.8k.
I had taken rides in HHRs before, so all I needed to do was to test drive the SS. These cars were at separate dealerships and the one that had the SS was closer, so we stopped there first. It was my first test drive of an HHR SS. The test drive of the SS was key. I never made it to the second dealer. I think that one weighing against the other (fun driving & power vs luxury & confort), I really don't miss the luxury all that much.
But in my situation, my HHR SS usually stays in the garage in the winter. We use my wife's Bravada (which happens to have heated leather seats).
I zeroed in on a 2008 HHR 2LT (silver out/grey in) with leather, heated seats, etc. I also found a 2008 HHR SS (black out/ebony in). Both were preowned units. The 2LT had 22k mi and the SS had 6.7k mi. The 2LT was $12k and the SS was $16.8k.
I had taken rides in HHRs before, so all I needed to do was to test drive the SS. These cars were at separate dealerships and the one that had the SS was closer, so we stopped there first. It was my first test drive of an HHR SS. The test drive of the SS was key. I never made it to the second dealer. I think that one weighing against the other (fun driving & power vs luxury & confort), I really don't miss the luxury all that much.
But in my situation, my HHR SS usually stays in the garage in the winter. We use my wife's Bravada (which happens to have heated leather seats).
Member
Joined: 01-22-2010
Posts: 33
From: Canada
In response to rotaryboy23's assertion that you can get 230 hp out of a 2.4 with added (non-pressurized) parts. I would certainly like to see a listing of parts that would get you there. Unlike a 5.0 Mustang, I was disappointed when I bought my HHR to find there are not that many performance parts for a 2.4 liter. It appears to me that most of the good stuff you can do to a 4-cylinder are already on there. It is pretty large displacement (for a four), it is a fuelie, it has 4 valves per cylinder, and variable valve timing with relatively high compression and a coil on each plug and a computer optimizing things. What are you going to reasonably add?
The only things I can think of are a free exhaust with header, a free breathing intake, and a tune. Premium gas and synthetic oil are a given. The exhaust reportedly gets you about 5 hp. The K&N or GMPP gives you about 5 hp (the rest are lower). A tune will give you what....20hp max (with better bottom end due to removing the enrichment delay) running premium fuel? Added together, you may not see a total combined 30 hp increase. With all of that, you'll have, say 200hp. Where is the extra 30 hp you are thinking to get you to 230 hp? I'd like to add it to Elvis.
The only other thing I can think of is tearing an engine completely apart, and balancing the whole thing. At that time you could add stronger parts that would allow a higher rpm. Then you'd need different cams to optimize the extra top end. Most likely you'd sacrifice bottom end then. Also, you are talking boatloads of cash thrown at an inexpensive HHR. Sure, the drag race and GM salt flats car can make up to 800 to 1000 hp pressurized, but at huge cost and low life expectency.
Basically, other than a turbo or supercharger, it will be hard to add much to the factory 2.4 liter. And, a turbo or supercharger addition will not be easy.....nor immune to problems (see the guys who have done it here on the boards). If someone tells you there is a cheap and easy way to add hp to a 2.4, ask to see a dyno. The best, and in my book only, bang-for-the-buck would be a TriFecta tune.
Just my 2 cents worth. God Bless, Marc
The only things I can think of are a free exhaust with header, a free breathing intake, and a tune. Premium gas and synthetic oil are a given. The exhaust reportedly gets you about 5 hp. The K&N or GMPP gives you about 5 hp (the rest are lower). A tune will give you what....20hp max (with better bottom end due to removing the enrichment delay) running premium fuel? Added together, you may not see a total combined 30 hp increase. With all of that, you'll have, say 200hp. Where is the extra 30 hp you are thinking to get you to 230 hp? I'd like to add it to Elvis.
The only other thing I can think of is tearing an engine completely apart, and balancing the whole thing. At that time you could add stronger parts that would allow a higher rpm. Then you'd need different cams to optimize the extra top end. Most likely you'd sacrifice bottom end then. Also, you are talking boatloads of cash thrown at an inexpensive HHR. Sure, the drag race and GM salt flats car can make up to 800 to 1000 hp pressurized, but at huge cost and low life expectency.
Basically, other than a turbo or supercharger, it will be hard to add much to the factory 2.4 liter. And, a turbo or supercharger addition will not be easy.....nor immune to problems (see the guys who have done it here on the boards). If someone tells you there is a cheap and easy way to add hp to a 2.4, ask to see a dyno. The best, and in my book only, bang-for-the-buck would be a TriFecta tune.
Just my 2 cents worth. God Bless, Marc
Camshafts aside, if you add both intake and exhaust, and get a dyno tune, rather than a canned Tridecta tune, you'll get more than the sum of the parts individually... Especially tuning for 93 octane? (you guys can get that stuff too, right?) Dyno tune @ 200 an hour (it's generally less), two hours to tune. Pretty close to trifecta prices.
Maybe I'm optimistic, but I dunno...
Senior Member
Joined: 09-11-2007
Posts: 1,379
From: Palm Bay, Florida
It all depends on what you want out of a car. A daily driver, a street rod, a sports car, a people hauler or a "station wagon". I opted for a daily driver station wagon and got an '06 LT1 with a 2.4L auto. It has enough power to meet my needs and gets great gas mileage. It is "comfy" for road trips and has lots of room inside for hauling stuff.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-13-2009
Posts: 414
From: NC
Hi Rotaryboy23,
<<<I mentioned adding a cam in that 230 HP... I thought there was LE5 cams available, but now I can't seem to find anything. I still don't know enough about the whole VVT thing I guess. I don't see changing cams as a big deal. A pain in the ass, yes, but my own labour is cheap. I enjoy the hobby. Camshafts aside, if you add both intake and exhaust, and get a dyno tune, rather than a canned Tridecta tune, you'll get more than the sum of the parts individually... Especially tuning for 93 octane? (you guys can get that stuff too, right?) Dyno tune @ 200 an hour (it's generally less), two hours to tune. Pretty close to trifecta prices. Maybe I'm optimistic, but I dunno... >>>
So far, other than drag guys, I haven't heard of folks changing out the cams in the 2.4's. Overall, I think you'd have to have stouter rotating parts and more revs to take advantage of new cams. The 2.0 cams from the SS may have a differing profile, but I am not sure if it would be better or worse when added on a naturally aspirated 2.4.
As far as parts adding up to more than a sum of the parts, I haven't seen that in any former car I've owned. I remember articles on 5.0 Mustangs where folks would show 20 hp increases for each part, and they'd add 5 parts. When tested together they'd get like 60 hp - not 100 hp. I think what happens is that the more horsepower you get, the harder it is to make increases with each new part. Like I mentioned earlier, the low hanging fruit was picked off by GM on the 2.4 liter. I have a buddy with a older BMW 2.5 liter six with VVT.....it gets about the same HP as our 2.4 liter. Think of it this way, if our 2.4 was doubled to a 4.8 liter V-8, it'd be right at 350 hp. Not a slacker by any means.
As far as the TriFecta tune, there are lots of folks on this forum that know more than I do about them, but I don't think anyone would say anything but good news about them. They seem (from what I have read) to be the EcoTech leader. I am not sure what you mean by a "dyno tune", but the TriFecta folks can vary all of the parameters to suit what you have modified on your car. It can be uploaded to your laptop and then installed in your car. The TriFecta tune is certainly not a one-size-fits-all chips type deal. In other words, if someone can tune your car while it is on the dyno, and knows all about EcoTechs, then it could work. However, it is hard to believe that many know more about EcoTechs than TriFecta (no, I have no monetary interest in TriFecta) as they have tuned many Cobalts and HHRs.
93 octane is a given, as the 2.4 is listed as needing 93 in the owner's manual due to compression. If you run lower, you aren't getting the full horsepower due to retarded timing.
Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade.
When I bought Elvis, I dug right in to see what I could do to improve the performance. The three things I found were tune (with possible warrantee ramifications), intake (must have cool air to actually add hp), and an exhaust (I don't want any more noise output). I was disappointed that GMPP didn't have more for "bolt-ons". You CAN build a fearsome EcoTech, but it'll take a full up rebuild with lots 'o cash in the mix.
I guess that is why folks looking for EcoTech power quickly head for pressurization.....both turbo and superchargers. Some have had success with superchargers (tight fit), and a couple have running turbos added. Honestly, if I was looking for more power, I think it'd be easier to buy an SS, and change the suspension softer and change the bodywork to look like an LT.
God Bless, Marc
<<<I mentioned adding a cam in that 230 HP... I thought there was LE5 cams available, but now I can't seem to find anything. I still don't know enough about the whole VVT thing I guess. I don't see changing cams as a big deal. A pain in the ass, yes, but my own labour is cheap. I enjoy the hobby. Camshafts aside, if you add both intake and exhaust, and get a dyno tune, rather than a canned Tridecta tune, you'll get more than the sum of the parts individually... Especially tuning for 93 octane? (you guys can get that stuff too, right?) Dyno tune @ 200 an hour (it's generally less), two hours to tune. Pretty close to trifecta prices. Maybe I'm optimistic, but I dunno... >>>
So far, other than drag guys, I haven't heard of folks changing out the cams in the 2.4's. Overall, I think you'd have to have stouter rotating parts and more revs to take advantage of new cams. The 2.0 cams from the SS may have a differing profile, but I am not sure if it would be better or worse when added on a naturally aspirated 2.4.
As far as parts adding up to more than a sum of the parts, I haven't seen that in any former car I've owned. I remember articles on 5.0 Mustangs where folks would show 20 hp increases for each part, and they'd add 5 parts. When tested together they'd get like 60 hp - not 100 hp. I think what happens is that the more horsepower you get, the harder it is to make increases with each new part. Like I mentioned earlier, the low hanging fruit was picked off by GM on the 2.4 liter. I have a buddy with a older BMW 2.5 liter six with VVT.....it gets about the same HP as our 2.4 liter. Think of it this way, if our 2.4 was doubled to a 4.8 liter V-8, it'd be right at 350 hp. Not a slacker by any means.
As far as the TriFecta tune, there are lots of folks on this forum that know more than I do about them, but I don't think anyone would say anything but good news about them. They seem (from what I have read) to be the EcoTech leader. I am not sure what you mean by a "dyno tune", but the TriFecta folks can vary all of the parameters to suit what you have modified on your car. It can be uploaded to your laptop and then installed in your car. The TriFecta tune is certainly not a one-size-fits-all chips type deal. In other words, if someone can tune your car while it is on the dyno, and knows all about EcoTechs, then it could work. However, it is hard to believe that many know more about EcoTechs than TriFecta (no, I have no monetary interest in TriFecta) as they have tuned many Cobalts and HHRs.
93 octane is a given, as the 2.4 is listed as needing 93 in the owner's manual due to compression. If you run lower, you aren't getting the full horsepower due to retarded timing.
Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade.
When I bought Elvis, I dug right in to see what I could do to improve the performance. The three things I found were tune (with possible warrantee ramifications), intake (must have cool air to actually add hp), and an exhaust (I don't want any more noise output). I was disappointed that GMPP didn't have more for "bolt-ons". You CAN build a fearsome EcoTech, but it'll take a full up rebuild with lots 'o cash in the mix. I guess that is why folks looking for EcoTech power quickly head for pressurization.....both turbo and superchargers. Some have had success with superchargers (tight fit), and a couple have running turbos added. Honestly, if I was looking for more power, I think it'd be easier to buy an SS, and change the suspension softer and change the bodywork to look like an LT.
God Bless, Marc