Real cold air
 

I was looking over the way CJ did his cold air hose, and realized that if anyone has the guts, the way to go for a true cold air/ram air set up would be to cut a 2.5 or 3 inch hole next to the driving light. It would be a simple run up to the center of the Outlaw filter without many bends. You could fabricate something with a funnel and maybe a wire mesh speaker grill, or use a setup like the 'Tuners' use. It would be very functional and look like a performance setup. Now, cutting a hole in the big front panal would take balls.

[IMG]https://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/fil...irDSCN3639.jpg[/IMG]

"Not I" said the man who can't afford to replace the bumper.

Lee
That is a great idea, but I am not so sure, no I know, :lol: my wife wouldn't let me do that to "her" car, but I like your thinking. I have an outlaw filter on order so I am going to try something with it.

Here is the Link to CJ's original post on what he did.

https://www.chevyhhr.net/forums/2-2l-performance-tech-5/ram-air-front-grille-front-cgs-air-filter-3042/

I'm using both fog light holes to do that.( have no fog lights)
Still making my filter box and brackets.

If only I didnt have fog lights-
There is a spot where CJ has his hanging down, where it would not block the radiator. But, there would be a very sharp bend that would impede flow. Maybe a nice mandryl bent tube?

Did you see the pix of CJ's pipe?
No shape bends there.

It's rippled plastic though. :roll: All of those little ripples screw up the air flow. ;) Why do you think the tubing on a CAI is smooth? :confused: A mandrel bent tube would be 1000% times better for air flow. :thumb: You are going to have to seal off the filter completely in order to make it work right and be a true ram air system. ;) Otherwise any air you are forcing in through the tip is going to be negated by the air being sucked in through the filter itself. :lol:

So why dose Nascar use them?????????

They don't to my knowledge. :confused: I though NASCAR intakes are made of smooth aluminum tubing. ;)

They don't use it for the air intake, but for the brakes and air for the driver.
If it's good enough to cool there brakes for hours on end in a race. It's good enough to suck air into my non performance 4 banger.
http://www.vaughnandlisa.com/Picture...s/IMG_5226.JPG

I did find this though CH
http://search.msn.com/images/details...8POre_408&sz=5
It should work for my little car!

You are not understanding this. The ripples slow air flow! That's why you don't see rippled CAIs. They use rippled plastic tubing for the brakes and driver because the ripples slowing the air flow don't really make a diffrence. They use smooth mandrel bent tubing on the intake because it does make a huge difference. Use whatever you want on your own vehicle of course but everything I have said is true and can be backed up. :lol:

So your HHR has the same type of hose on it from the factory
Nascar brakes will get more heat in them then our little engines ever will.
I think that my filter box and 2 of those hoses will get lots more air flow than your stock ste up!!!!

A rear end 350 conversion? :confused:

Just showing that other people are using the same stuff that you say is no good!

I know, it helps the vehicle meet emissions. ;) But if I am going to upgrade my intake I am going to put a smooth non rippled evenly bent tube not the same type of restrictive rippled unevenly bent plastic tube. :lol: I am still waiting for a true CAI system for our car because I still am not sold on the these warm air ricer tubes or heat boxes that are out for our vehicle. :roll:

I didn't say the plastic tubing is no good. :roll: You read into it that way. ;) I just said a madrel bent tube would be 1000% times better, which is true and can be backed up. :lol:

Well thats your opinion.
I'm going to do what I want to "MY" car on matter what anyone say's. I think It's going to work good. I don't think that this engine is a big HP maker and I don't want it to be one. I'm happy that you want to spend 200 to 300 bucks on a bent tube. I haven't spend a dime on mine yet. I'm just saying that if GM one of the worlds leading car make and Nascar are willing to use the stuff. Then It should be good enough for little old me.

Back it up then.
I want to see it.

I'd like to see where you get that your smooth pipe is 1000% better.
I could see 10 to 20% better, but not 1000%.
And I'll have 2 of thoughs pipes going to the box. not one like on your factory box.

CJ's pipes is not even plastic
I'm going to use the same pipe as CJ.https://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/sho...atid=newimages

Why are you getting so bent out of shape about this? :confused: I was responding to Lee originaly. :lol: Like I said before it's your car use what you like and I wasn't saying anything against your decision to use plastic tubing. ;) Afraid I might be right? :lol: Before I start searching around on the internet I think you answer your own question about proof in your NASCAR question. ;) And when is the last time you've seen a rippled plastic or metal CAI? :confused: I'll dig around for proof if you want me to but it will be a waste of time in a pointless debate. :p:

Looks like your talking to me on this one.

I'm not saying that your wrong ether CH. I know that a smooth bend pipe is better, but not 1000% better.

I'm not getting out of shape! It's just You have no right to slam my Idea in to the durt and dis it like that. Do you rally think that the pipe will make such a huge difference on a motor that oly makes under 200 HP. I've had 5 Camaros and a big block chevy truck. I know how to make HP, and to start out with a 4 banger isn't the way. You do what you want and spend the 200 to 300 buck on a CAI, and I'll spend a few bucks and make my air box. I'm not saying that my intake will be better, but I want to come up with new things and try them. How do ya think Mike makes all of his stuff. trial and error. If my idea works good then thats great if not then who cares. At least I'm not going to spend 200 to 300 bucks on some thing that gives me 8 more HP or so.

Sorry about the Highjack thread Lee. Now back to that hole in the bumper.

Seriously I was reponding to Lee and could give a damn about what intake you put on your vehicle. ;) If you read back through my post never once did I mention anything about you or your homemade intake. Sorry if you are overly sensative. :cry: The percentage debate is just stupid. ;) It is an expression. :lol: Because I say Coke is 1000% times better than Pepsi does that make it scientifically proven? :confused: :rof:

Well you said that you have proof that it's 1000% better.lol
If this is such a stupid and pointlees debate than why do ya have to keep saying sh#t about your right and I'm wrong.
We all know that you will keep this up till you get the last word in.
I'm going to be the bigger man here and end this sh$t. This is the last post I'll make to you in this thread. You say what you want and do what you want. At least I'm going to do my mod.

Andrew

When you finish with your project I would love to see some pictures. Keep working on it and sharing. Thanks:thumb:

Where? :confused: Find the post where I said that and quote it. ;) You really should learn how to read instead of reading things how you want and pull your panties out of your ass. :p: Why are there so many overly sensative cry babies on this site. :confused: :roll:

Right here:

Holy sh*t I did! :eek: :red: It was still a figure of speach. :lol:

i am only going to make one post on this CH and no answer needed.
you made this statement 3 times in this thread and he asked you to prove or validate what you are using as debate.

if you cant prove or validate then your input and your information is inaccurate and not appropiate and shouldnt be used especially to badger forum members

i dont think you could dig on the net for a any length of time and prove your 1000% claim. and then of course you put a post up w an insult to not one but towards many forum members

to me, is it claims, opinions, facts or lies?

CJ :thumb:

Back to Lee's Original Post :lol:

Let us know your progress.

From wikipedia about CAIs :

All cold air intakes operate on the principle of increasing the amount of oxygen available for combustion with fuel. Because cooler air has more density for a given volume, cold air intakes generally work by providing cooler air from outside the hot engine bay. However, the term "cold air intake" is often used to describe other methods of increasing oxygen to an engine, which may even increase the temperature of the air coming into an engine.

Some strategies used in designing cold-air intakes are:

increasing the diameter of the air intake, allowing increased airflow.
smoothing the interior of the intake to reduce air resistance.
providing a more direct route to the air intake.
tuning the length of the intake to provide the most airflow at certain RPMs.
using a more efficient air filter

It's really not rocket science guys and there is plenty of info to back it up but I'm not going to waste my time digging it up for you. Do your own research and you'll find out smooth tubing is way better than rippled in terms of air flow.

"Black"....

I take CH's side on this. Just because of common sense. Smooth would be better that "rippled", if you think about wind turbulance.

Also, he's not saying rippled will not work, just that smooth is better for a COLD AIR RAM INTAKE SYSTEM. All Formula 1 cars and all the "top end" vehicles I have seen use custom smooth tubing...because of efficientcy (admittedly they probably can afford it, also). NASCAR vehicles used the most direct route...the windshield and cowling....look at the NASCAR Monte Carlo you posted.

CH....

Stay posted.....I almost have a system designed and created that you are looking for....guaranteed CAI with RAM (thanks to some very special "Friends"). Trials and readings are going on now.

Awesome! :bow: I was kind of hoping you would chime in on this thread. :D

This forum is for the exchange of ideas. This exchange has gotten out of hand.

Agreed. I'll back out because all of my points have been said.

To sindy.....


Can I still talk about CAI????

of course you can!

O'k, I'm going to try this....on CAI and/or RAM

What I have learned from personal trial an error and from "friends"...

It's a b***h, to manage on the HHR. To manage cooler/colder air into the "system", heat needs to by removed from the engine compartment or air needs to be extracted outside that compartment at very rapid rates (this is the method i have chosen).

The stock intake, at the passenger wheel well, is adequate and meets "requirements". It essentially is "sucking" whatever the engine requires. But if additional air flow is needed (increased performance, etc), a different or larger venue is needed which provides air at increased volumes (and possible pressures).

The smoother the tube intake the more efficient the air flow (smoother, in this case, meaning no bends). But again, smooth tubing in place of rippled makes sense, also.

If tubing is used in the engine compartment...shorter and straighter is better. With secondary considerations of insulated tubing if length is not "controlled". Shorter appears, at this time, to support more efficient cooler air use.

If smooth tubing is used before the MAF, a MINIMAL amount of bends can be used to "tune" the intake to a specific RPM range (CGS ?).

Without "hacking" the HHR, RAM CAI will only prove valuable above certain speeds (because of air flow dynamics and vehicle design). CAI alone, may be valuable below these determined speeds.

I'm providing this information without bias and based on readings of electronic equipment loaned or borrowed by me and/or provided by some friends. Some minimal tests were conducted on my vehicle some were performed on other vehicles in the same configuration. I'm only providing the basics, at this time, and if this research and trial works favorably I will share all the info, data, and doc.'s, with no hitches (probably in the Dungeon, however), for other members to use.

Oh, and cooler air, in the air/fuel mixture (not to be confused with engine temperature), WILL provide increased performance.

I am open for suggestions from ANYONE....more, the better...kind of like a Cray Supercomputer. Let's Crunch..