What was GM thinking?
Senior Member
Joined: 01-24-2008
Posts: 725
From: USA
Yep - I've had three or four of them over the years and am currently driving a '98 Safari AWD. I'm in the sign business and need space for a 4'x8' sheet of whatever and most of the other vehicles on the road don't allow for it. Am on the constant lookout for a used replacement vehicle for when the time comes.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
I have been watching this and just could not remain silent anymore. This is like someone saying they bought a new Corvette ZR1 and it has a too loud exhaust and the ride is too hard. From what I see here is there is no major issue with the HHR or what GM did as it is you bought the wrong vehicle based on your expectations.
Comparing a Asto Van to a HHR is like Apple and Oranges.
There are many here that if they owned a Astro Van would have many issues with it they also would not be happy with because they have different expectations.
The HHR is what it is. GM took a Delta platform and made a tall wagon out of it. The ride is on par with the Cobalt it is based on. The noise factor too is no different than any other small wagon. They could have loaded it up with more sound deading but most buyers in this class know about the less insulation and accept it as it is. They would rather save the cost and weight anyways. Buick is just introducing the Verano which is the first small luxury car in its class to offer a quiet treatment unlike any other.
The quality issues are just a sign of when the car was designed. GM used cheaper suppliers to make parts for this as they were bankrupt. The cars of the 90's for GM for th most all had nagging issue.
I would say the size and type of vehicle the HHR is was right for you but the HHR it's self is not the kind of vehicle you should have bought as the ride and comfort levels you expect are much greater than.
Case in point GM did not do anything wrong here. I just feel for better or worse you needed more time with the HHR before you bought it and you would have seen it was not then nor now the vehicle you really wanted.
GM is now working all new vehicles with quality we have not seen in years. They now have the money to eliminate issue of past vehicles. Cars like the new Cruze, Verano, Lacrosse, Equilnox, Sonic, Terrain, Regal and so to intro 2013 Malibu are all showing that GM is now doing things much better. These cars are also not the new post chapter 11 clean sheet of paper cars that we will soon be seeing starting with the Cadillac ATS.
The HHR was a car they did cheap as they could not afford a big new program. It needed to be based on a car and for the most GM did pretty good for doing it for so little. If they had to do one today I am sure we would see things like better quailty and a better interior but I still don't think it would be a vehicle you should buy based on what your expectations are.
One vehivle is coming that may better meet your expectations. The Buick Encore is a small CUV that has a good ride and one of the most quiet cabins in class. It also will have a interior that is on par with Audi. Buick also has a MPV coming that is going to be a little larger as the Encore is a small Vehicle [Think Juke size].
What ever you buy I would recomend that you do your home work a little better and choose wisely. GM did not fail you as they built a car that many here will gladly say they love. The fact is you just chose the wrong car for what ever reason.
I would recomend renting for a week what ever car in the future you chose. Spend some time with it and drive it. Cars are too expensive to buy uninformed.
I am not trying to get down on you. Sorry if I come across this way. But I will defend GM in this case as the HHR was what it was before you bought it. It did not change and was just as hard riding as you claim and loud inside before you purchased it as after. Call it new car fever or what ever but too often people get emotional with buying a new car and often chose the wrong one for the wrong reasons. You are far from the only one to have made this mistake. I knew some of the short comings coming in and accpeted them. There are just as many issue with most other cars but I am also realistic In knowing what to expect too.
Sorry for your disapointment but also please accept the responsibility and stop blaming GM for the way it rides, noise, etc. [The Quality on some items I can agree to blame the old GM] You had ever chance to learn the HHR before you bought it and just did not learn what you needed to learn before you purchased. Note even my dealer tossed me the keys and told me see you later today.
As for how GM was run I agree they have had major issue for years. I have had family in the company back to 1927. There were good times years ago but the real issues started in the 50's -60's when they needed to change but the heads felt they were too big to fail. The decline came on faster in the 70's and it came to a head in the 80's.
The 90's were just damage control. Many point to Wagoner as the one who crashed the company when the truth is he was just the one at the wheel after it hit the tree.
Today things have changed a lot. There is still more work to do yet but they are at least learning and moving in a better direction. Their gain of market share with less divisions are due to the fact they are building some better cars and cars people want. The Cruze is a great example of this. If the HHR had been based on this car you would have a lot less complaints.
I would recomend that everyone here read Bob Lutzs book Car guys and Bean Counters as it shows just how bad GM was and what things that have been done to correct the issues. He lays it out as it is and does not try to be PC about it. I also recomend finding the book on a Clear Day You can See GM by John Delorean. It was a no holds book about GM after he left. Some say he also paid a price for it the rest of his life for writing the book. He even before he passes said he was sorry he wrote it. But if many had listen to him in the 70's GM would not had gone down the path they did.
The UAW did a lot of damage but GM did little to stop them. GM should have never offered the contracts they did in the 80's and 90's as when market share dropped it left them with no way out and the UAW was not going to help in many ways. They paid a price for the fear of another 1970 strike and made offers they could never pay unless everything went right.
The GM story has two sides and everyone need to put the two together to get the full story. GM did not fail just because of the UAW. They failed because of the UAW and because of those who ran the company. It takes two to dance in this game.
Comparing a Asto Van to a HHR is like Apple and Oranges.
There are many here that if they owned a Astro Van would have many issues with it they also would not be happy with because they have different expectations.
The HHR is what it is. GM took a Delta platform and made a tall wagon out of it. The ride is on par with the Cobalt it is based on. The noise factor too is no different than any other small wagon. They could have loaded it up with more sound deading but most buyers in this class know about the less insulation and accept it as it is. They would rather save the cost and weight anyways. Buick is just introducing the Verano which is the first small luxury car in its class to offer a quiet treatment unlike any other.
The quality issues are just a sign of when the car was designed. GM used cheaper suppliers to make parts for this as they were bankrupt. The cars of the 90's for GM for th most all had nagging issue.
I would say the size and type of vehicle the HHR is was right for you but the HHR it's self is not the kind of vehicle you should have bought as the ride and comfort levels you expect are much greater than.
Case in point GM did not do anything wrong here. I just feel for better or worse you needed more time with the HHR before you bought it and you would have seen it was not then nor now the vehicle you really wanted.
GM is now working all new vehicles with quality we have not seen in years. They now have the money to eliminate issue of past vehicles. Cars like the new Cruze, Verano, Lacrosse, Equilnox, Sonic, Terrain, Regal and so to intro 2013 Malibu are all showing that GM is now doing things much better. These cars are also not the new post chapter 11 clean sheet of paper cars that we will soon be seeing starting with the Cadillac ATS.
The HHR was a car they did cheap as they could not afford a big new program. It needed to be based on a car and for the most GM did pretty good for doing it for so little. If they had to do one today I am sure we would see things like better quailty and a better interior but I still don't think it would be a vehicle you should buy based on what your expectations are.
One vehivle is coming that may better meet your expectations. The Buick Encore is a small CUV that has a good ride and one of the most quiet cabins in class. It also will have a interior that is on par with Audi. Buick also has a MPV coming that is going to be a little larger as the Encore is a small Vehicle [Think Juke size].
What ever you buy I would recomend that you do your home work a little better and choose wisely. GM did not fail you as they built a car that many here will gladly say they love. The fact is you just chose the wrong car for what ever reason.
I would recomend renting for a week what ever car in the future you chose. Spend some time with it and drive it. Cars are too expensive to buy uninformed.
I am not trying to get down on you. Sorry if I come across this way. But I will defend GM in this case as the HHR was what it was before you bought it. It did not change and was just as hard riding as you claim and loud inside before you purchased it as after. Call it new car fever or what ever but too often people get emotional with buying a new car and often chose the wrong one for the wrong reasons. You are far from the only one to have made this mistake. I knew some of the short comings coming in and accpeted them. There are just as many issue with most other cars but I am also realistic In knowing what to expect too.
Sorry for your disapointment but also please accept the responsibility and stop blaming GM for the way it rides, noise, etc. [The Quality on some items I can agree to blame the old GM] You had ever chance to learn the HHR before you bought it and just did not learn what you needed to learn before you purchased. Note even my dealer tossed me the keys and told me see you later today.
As for how GM was run I agree they have had major issue for years. I have had family in the company back to 1927. There were good times years ago but the real issues started in the 50's -60's when they needed to change but the heads felt they were too big to fail. The decline came on faster in the 70's and it came to a head in the 80's.
The 90's were just damage control. Many point to Wagoner as the one who crashed the company when the truth is he was just the one at the wheel after it hit the tree.
Today things have changed a lot. There is still more work to do yet but they are at least learning and moving in a better direction. Their gain of market share with less divisions are due to the fact they are building some better cars and cars people want. The Cruze is a great example of this. If the HHR had been based on this car you would have a lot less complaints.
I would recomend that everyone here read Bob Lutzs book Car guys and Bean Counters as it shows just how bad GM was and what things that have been done to correct the issues. He lays it out as it is and does not try to be PC about it. I also recomend finding the book on a Clear Day You can See GM by John Delorean. It was a no holds book about GM after he left. Some say he also paid a price for it the rest of his life for writing the book. He even before he passes said he was sorry he wrote it. But if many had listen to him in the 70's GM would not had gone down the path they did.
The UAW did a lot of damage but GM did little to stop them. GM should have never offered the contracts they did in the 80's and 90's as when market share dropped it left them with no way out and the UAW was not going to help in many ways. They paid a price for the fear of another 1970 strike and made offers they could never pay unless everything went right.
The GM story has two sides and everyone need to put the two together to get the full story. GM did not fail just because of the UAW. They failed because of the UAW and because of those who ran the company. It takes two to dance in this game.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 11-09-2008
Posts: 196
From: Kentucky
I have been watching this and just could not remain silent anymore. This is like someone saying they bought a new Corvette ZR1 and it has a too loud exhaust and the ride is too hard. From what I see here is there is no major issue with the HHR or what GM did as it is you bought the wrong vehicle based on your expectations.
You don't know what you're talkin about here. My only expectation was things not to fall apart.
Comparing a Asto Van to a HHR is like Apple and Oranges.
No one compared an Astro to an HHR. That was just where the coversation led.
There are many here that if they owned a Astro Van would have many issues with it they also would not be happy with because they have different expectations.
The HHR is what it is. GM took a Delta platform and made a tall wagon out of it. The ride is on par with the Cobalt it is based on. The noise factor too is no different than any other small wagon. They could have loaded it up with more sound deading but most buyers in this class know about the less insulation and accept it as it is. They would rather save the cost and weight anyways. Buick is just introducing the Verano which is the first small luxury car in its class to offer a quiet treatment unlike any other.
The quality issues are just a sign of when the car was designed. GM used cheaper suppliers to make parts for this as they were bankrupt. The cars of the 90's for GM for th most all had nagging issue.
So if a company is going bankrupt, then making cheap crap is ok with you?? And why were they going bankrupt anyway? CHEAP CRAP!!! Oldsmobiles were junk in the 80s and 90s, Buick was a Joke for a long time.
I would say the size and type of vehicle the HHR is was right for you but the HHR it's self is not the kind of vehicle you should have bought as the ride and comfort levels you expect are much greater than.
You have no idea why I chose the HHR do you?
Case in point GM did not do anything wrong here. I just feel for better or worse you needed more time with the HHR before you bought it and you would have seen it was not then nor now the vehicle you really wanted.
Yes they did. They CHOSE to put cheap parts on the car banking on the warranty to run out before they fell apart......wheel bearing for the most part. The Autozone parts are higher quality than the GM parts.
GM is now working all new vehicles with quality we have not seen in years. They now have the money to eliminate issue of past vehicles. Cars like the new Cruze, Verano, Lacrosse, Equilnox, Sonic, Terrain, Regal and so to intro 2013 Malibu are all showing that GM is now doing things much better. These cars are also not the new post chapter 11 clean sheet of paper cars that we will soon be seeing starting with the Cadillac ATS.
It is only a matter of time before GM is down again. Quality is only 1 issue, UAW will drain any profits from GM and back to cheap crap.
The HHR was a car they did cheap as they could not afford a big new program. It needed to be based on a car and for the most GM did pretty good for doing it for so little. If they had to do one today I am sure we would see things like better quailty and a better interior but I still don't think it would be a vehicle you should buy based on what your expectations are.
Again you make excuses for poor quality in favor of cheap...whats wrong with you??
One vehivle is coming that may better meet your expectations. The Buick Encore is a small CUV that has a good ride and one of the most quiet cabins in class. It also will have a interior that is on par with Audi. Buick also has a MPV coming that is going to be a little larger as the Encore is a small Vehicle [Think Juke size].
Not in the market for a new vehicle for quite awhile. I will make my HHR better than OEM.
You don't know what you're talkin about here. My only expectation was things not to fall apart.
Comparing a Asto Van to a HHR is like Apple and Oranges.
No one compared an Astro to an HHR. That was just where the coversation led.
There are many here that if they owned a Astro Van would have many issues with it they also would not be happy with because they have different expectations.
The HHR is what it is. GM took a Delta platform and made a tall wagon out of it. The ride is on par with the Cobalt it is based on. The noise factor too is no different than any other small wagon. They could have loaded it up with more sound deading but most buyers in this class know about the less insulation and accept it as it is. They would rather save the cost and weight anyways. Buick is just introducing the Verano which is the first small luxury car in its class to offer a quiet treatment unlike any other.
The quality issues are just a sign of when the car was designed. GM used cheaper suppliers to make parts for this as they were bankrupt. The cars of the 90's for GM for th most all had nagging issue.
So if a company is going bankrupt, then making cheap crap is ok with you?? And why were they going bankrupt anyway? CHEAP CRAP!!! Oldsmobiles were junk in the 80s and 90s, Buick was a Joke for a long time.
I would say the size and type of vehicle the HHR is was right for you but the HHR it's self is not the kind of vehicle you should have bought as the ride and comfort levels you expect are much greater than.
You have no idea why I chose the HHR do you?
Case in point GM did not do anything wrong here. I just feel for better or worse you needed more time with the HHR before you bought it and you would have seen it was not then nor now the vehicle you really wanted.
Yes they did. They CHOSE to put cheap parts on the car banking on the warranty to run out before they fell apart......wheel bearing for the most part. The Autozone parts are higher quality than the GM parts.
GM is now working all new vehicles with quality we have not seen in years. They now have the money to eliminate issue of past vehicles. Cars like the new Cruze, Verano, Lacrosse, Equilnox, Sonic, Terrain, Regal and so to intro 2013 Malibu are all showing that GM is now doing things much better. These cars are also not the new post chapter 11 clean sheet of paper cars that we will soon be seeing starting with the Cadillac ATS.
It is only a matter of time before GM is down again. Quality is only 1 issue, UAW will drain any profits from GM and back to cheap crap.
The HHR was a car they did cheap as they could not afford a big new program. It needed to be based on a car and for the most GM did pretty good for doing it for so little. If they had to do one today I am sure we would see things like better quailty and a better interior but I still don't think it would be a vehicle you should buy based on what your expectations are.
Again you make excuses for poor quality in favor of cheap...whats wrong with you??
One vehivle is coming that may better meet your expectations. The Buick Encore is a small CUV that has a good ride and one of the most quiet cabins in class. It also will have a interior that is on par with Audi. Buick also has a MPV coming that is going to be a little larger as the Encore is a small Vehicle [Think Juke size].
Not in the market for a new vehicle for quite awhile. I will make my HHR better than OEM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 11-09-2008
Posts: 196
From: Kentucky
What ever you buy I would recomend that you do your home work a little better and choose wisely. GM did not fail you as they built a car that many here will gladly say they love. The fact is you just chose the wrong car for what ever reason.
I did my "homework" just fine. I "chose" the HHR based on the Ecotec engine, and body design. Drove several before I bought one. Got an 07 so I could get the 5yr/100k mile warranty.
I would recomend renting for a week what ever car in the future you chose. Spend some time with it and drive it. Cars are too expensive to buy uninformed.
I am not trying to get down on you. Sorry if I come across this way. But I will defend GM in this case as the HHR was what it was before you bought it. It did not change and was just as hard riding as you claim and loud inside before you purchased it as after. Call it new car fever or what ever but too often people get emotional with buying a new car and often chose the wrong one for the wrong reasons. You are far from the only one to have made this mistake. I knew some of the short comings coming in and accpeted them. There are just as many issue with most other cars but I am also realistic In knowing what to expect too.
I am 43 years old, have owned 51 cars i my life, worked in several body/paint shops, worked for Siemens/Tyco supplying GM with relays, ABS and Anti Theft systems as well as Bosch fuel injector coils. Have 4 Family members who work at GM and 3 friends that work at the Corvette plant in Bowling Green. I know how GM works, some of the things they have done DELIBERATELY, and I still chose the HHR. AND I am long out of school so dont think you can lecture me on life choices.
Sorry for your disapointment but also please accept the responsibility and stop blaming GM for the way it rides, noise, etc. [The Quality on some items I can agree to blame the old GM] You had ever chance to learn the HHR before you bought it and just did not learn what you needed to learn before you purchased. Note even my dealer tossed me the keys and told me see you later today.
As for how GM was run I agree they have had major issue for years. I have had family in the company back to 1927. There were good times years ago but the real issues started in the 50's -60's when they needed to change but the heads felt they were too big to fail. The decline came on faster in the 70's and it came to a head in the 80's.
The 90's were just damage control. Many point to Wagoner as the one who crashed the company when the truth is he was just the one at the wheel after it hit the tree.
Today things have changed a lot. There is still more work to do yet but they are at least learning and moving in a better direction. Their gain of market share with less divisions are due to the fact they are building some better cars and cars people want. The Cruze is a great example of this. If the HHR had been based on this car you would have a lot less complaints.
I would recomend that everyone here read Bob Lutzs book Car guys and Bean Counters as it shows just how bad GM was and what things that have been done to correct the issues. He lays it out as it is and does not try to be PC about it. I also recomend finding the book on a Clear Day You can See GM by John Delorean. It was a no holds book about GM after he left. Some say he also paid a price for it the rest of his life for writing the book. He even before he passes said he was sorry he wrote it. But if many had listen to him in the 70's GM would not had gone down the path they did.
The UAW did a lot of damage but GM did little to stop them. GM should have never offered the contracts they did in the 80's and 90's as when market share dropped it left them with no way out and the UAW was not going to help in many ways. They paid a price for the fear of another 1970 strike and made offers they could never pay unless everything went right.
GM cannot stop UAW now since they OWN GM. Within 10 years GM will be about to fail again. This time let them fail. Nothing will ever change untill then.
The GM story has two sides and everyone need to put the two together to get the full story. GM did not fail just because of the UAW. They failed because of the UAW and because of those who ran the company. It takes two to dance in this game.
I did my "homework" just fine. I "chose" the HHR based on the Ecotec engine, and body design. Drove several before I bought one. Got an 07 so I could get the 5yr/100k mile warranty.
I would recomend renting for a week what ever car in the future you chose. Spend some time with it and drive it. Cars are too expensive to buy uninformed.
I am not trying to get down on you. Sorry if I come across this way. But I will defend GM in this case as the HHR was what it was before you bought it. It did not change and was just as hard riding as you claim and loud inside before you purchased it as after. Call it new car fever or what ever but too often people get emotional with buying a new car and often chose the wrong one for the wrong reasons. You are far from the only one to have made this mistake. I knew some of the short comings coming in and accpeted them. There are just as many issue with most other cars but I am also realistic In knowing what to expect too.
I am 43 years old, have owned 51 cars i my life, worked in several body/paint shops, worked for Siemens/Tyco supplying GM with relays, ABS and Anti Theft systems as well as Bosch fuel injector coils. Have 4 Family members who work at GM and 3 friends that work at the Corvette plant in Bowling Green. I know how GM works, some of the things they have done DELIBERATELY, and I still chose the HHR. AND I am long out of school so dont think you can lecture me on life choices.
Sorry for your disapointment but also please accept the responsibility and stop blaming GM for the way it rides, noise, etc. [The Quality on some items I can agree to blame the old GM] You had ever chance to learn the HHR before you bought it and just did not learn what you needed to learn before you purchased. Note even my dealer tossed me the keys and told me see you later today.
As for how GM was run I agree they have had major issue for years. I have had family in the company back to 1927. There were good times years ago but the real issues started in the 50's -60's when they needed to change but the heads felt they were too big to fail. The decline came on faster in the 70's and it came to a head in the 80's.
The 90's were just damage control. Many point to Wagoner as the one who crashed the company when the truth is he was just the one at the wheel after it hit the tree.
Today things have changed a lot. There is still more work to do yet but they are at least learning and moving in a better direction. Their gain of market share with less divisions are due to the fact they are building some better cars and cars people want. The Cruze is a great example of this. If the HHR had been based on this car you would have a lot less complaints.
I would recomend that everyone here read Bob Lutzs book Car guys and Bean Counters as it shows just how bad GM was and what things that have been done to correct the issues. He lays it out as it is and does not try to be PC about it. I also recomend finding the book on a Clear Day You can See GM by John Delorean. It was a no holds book about GM after he left. Some say he also paid a price for it the rest of his life for writing the book. He even before he passes said he was sorry he wrote it. But if many had listen to him in the 70's GM would not had gone down the path they did.
The UAW did a lot of damage but GM did little to stop them. GM should have never offered the contracts they did in the 80's and 90's as when market share dropped it left them with no way out and the UAW was not going to help in many ways. They paid a price for the fear of another 1970 strike and made offers they could never pay unless everything went right.
GM cannot stop UAW now since they OWN GM. Within 10 years GM will be about to fail again. This time let them fail. Nothing will ever change untill then.
The GM story has two sides and everyone need to put the two together to get the full story. GM did not fail just because of the UAW. They failed because of the UAW and because of those who ran the company. It takes two to dance in this game.
Senior Member
Joined: 06-26-2006
Posts: 1,876
From: San Bernardino, California
No, that's not really it. It's more like an editorial, I guess. Remember, this is ebritt's thread. He is the one that posed the question "What was GM Thinking" though it appears that he already knew the answer(s) so, naturally, anything that doesn't mesh with that was going to be met with some sort consternation. Hopefully, since it's all so eloquently spelled out in posts #44 and #45, this is over now. Being that this it the internet, however, I doubt it because, for whatever reason, some people just seem to need to do this sort of thing. Kind of like the guy expounding about axle seals and transmission service a while back.....
