Excellent points, esmarkey. It's like an airplane crash - 99% of them have a series or chain of events that lead up to the crash. In this case, people who thought they had too much money, were buying gigantic Hummers and Expeditions and Dodge dualies, for no other purpose than to drive a big-ass truck. Gas doubles in price, and voila! The car companies crash. GM has or had, a lot of shareholders, who are ONLY interested in making money. When we wise-up and demand smaller, efficient cars, they will build them, or they will close their doors. They know that now. Adding to all of that is the same buyers who bought too much house and too much credit. NO ONE is buying cars. Foreign-badged car sales are also down at least 31%, but you don't hear much about that. Sure the UAW is part of it. But ultimately, GM owns GM. They are the last word in what they do.

 

I heard something interesting today, although I have not looked into it to confirm it. I was told today that when you factor in benifits, wages, and any other compensations a worker gets, the average cost of an employee at Toyota is $45/hour, when compared to GM Ford or Chrystler its $75/hour. I think the Unions (both UAW and CAW) have done an admiral job in getting the most for its workers that it could have .....although I suspect that will now hurt them if indeed the numbers above are true

 

I don't care one way or the other. My only questions is this: We are bailing out everybody and fighting a couple of wars at the same time. How many hundreds of years will it take to pay for all of this? Just think, they are printing and spending money, but I bet we have nothing to back it up. The gold standard has meant nothing for years.

 

The Government sure seems to be throwing billions of dollars around like it's just so much confetti! Someone's going to have to pay the piper for all of this sooner or later, and it will probably be citizens who are still running around in diapers now, and those not even born yet!

 

Why should the gov bail out a business that made itself go under?How many airlines folded under for the same reasons?They didn't get bailed out.They filed!and those that could restructured and rebuilt.I can see the financial market getting bailed..it drives the world market..autos don't.Next thing you know McDonalds will want in. I don't want them to fold,but then again they brought it all on themselves.How many thousands are unemployed and still collecting paychecks?Thank you unions..Its great for those protected..but we wind up paying thru the nose so they can sit at home..kinda like private welfare.Imagine if ALL the businesses did this,,how much would eggs and milk cost?.I don't want them to fail..But then I don't want to foot the bill either.
Talks stalled again because why?The unions didn't like the immediate paycut.They'd rather bite the hand that feeds them. Just MHO.

 

The Unions are an easy target. I would like to know how much all the Legislators bashing the automakers make for hourly compensation. I'll bet it is a hell of a lot more than $75hr. I'm not saying the automakers didn't make mistakes but its not just them. The automakers were making what was in demand just like any business. And we were all keeping them in Business then.

 

These hourly figures that are flying around are the total hourly "compensation" including base wage, benefits, health care, etc. I think the airlines started this crap after 9/11 when they came after us for concessions. They compared our numbers (USAirways) to Continental's, and said this is what we should make so the company can be competitive. It's like comparing apples to oranges in alot of ways...the media doesn't report it that way though. They robbed it from us and the executives got bonuses for shoving it down our throats! These numbers can be manipulated in any way the company sees fit to make the unions look to be dragging the place down! With the UAW's new starting wage package that's already in place, I'm sure it's competitive with the non-union auto workers. I'm sure the established membership is willing to take a cut to stay afloat, but the media always make them out to be the bad guys!

 

Let's not forget the senate is carrying sour grapes from the election. I don't think they are happy spoiled little campers after losing office space. Some play political games at the expense of the public...

 

X2!!! If people realized how much parts cost for these aircraft, maybe they wouldn't b***h about a $249 round-trip fare! De-regulation was the beginning of the end for the airlines, but I'm sure it'll never come back. I think the carriers should have a "gentleman's agreement" amongst themselves with minimum pricing set, so they don't take a loss on some flights. If you don't want to pay the fare...drive!

Anyway, rant over! Back to topic...since GM has a global presence, what are GM of Europe (Opel) and Australia (Holden) doing to help GM??? These regions have alot to lose also if GM goes bankrupt or liquidates...haven't heard or read anything about them kicking in to help

 

Didn't GM just close the doors there?