on the rain issue, that is why they ran the ducting down behind the grill, and traveled upward so far with it. the factory setup for that y-pipe duct was VERY similar to what the guy got creative with in my links, except the bottom of their ducts were slanted upward so any water that DID get in, would drain out.

 

Over the weekend I decided that my $80 intake is now going to be a $125 intake to make. The reason is the filter. I was researching velocity stacks and the K&N filter I found has one built in which gives more power than the standard filter. It will also fit in that hole between the computer and the headlight. The filter is $63 so the $80 budget is throne out the window. Also, like some of you have seen there is a small lip in the radiator shroud that forces air through the grill and up and over the engine, so being the filter is in the front, the "heat" is being pushed to the back, so we should be OK. I will have this new intake built hopefully in the next few weeks. I have simplified it a little more and it will look purdy.

K&N filter
http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...x?Prod=RX-4750

 

Don't know if this will work but, I remember that you can buy under-dash A/C units that only need power for older model Mustangs 60's. I was actually going to look into it myself

 

while we await the outcome from :That guy" to complete his system, I did some more thinking today, so here it goes.......
Remove the stock air box, but keep the filter in it's present location...(not to say that we can't find a different type of filter close to those dimensions of the stock filter). Enclose the filter in its original postion (I have some thoughts on how to encase the filter) and run ducting similar to what is already used (but something more effective and attractive for us) to the front opening that I have mentioned before. Looked under the hood tonight, and the way the filter lays, it would be a straight shot to the driver's side opening, very close to a true "ram air" effect. Of course the air inlet duct would have to be rain & water proof, as pointed out earlier. But the big plus here is that we can use an air inlet duct as wide as the opening is on the driver's side, mating to the round ducting, mating to the enclosed filter. It really would not take up alot of room, the engine compartment would have a very "clean" look about it, and it would be very effective. I would still mount the air temp sensor, in the air inlet duct for a cooler ECM reading to allow for more timing. And would have to use the DashHawk to take readings before and after. And BTW, there are filters out there that don't need to be oil contained, to be performance. In my SSR, I had used an Amsoil new style filter that worked just fine. Of course there is alot of fine tuning to do, but I really think this would work and look good at the same time.
We still have to see how "That guy" comes along with his system, either way it makes for some innovative designs that we would benefit from...

 

I agree that having a less restrictive air intake...even in a warmer environment will see gains over the highly restrictive stock air box. Would the ambient air under the hood hurt performance some, yes, but the added flow will gain performance back. I agree having the air come from outside the fender well is better. I'm also a Mechanical Engineer Grad from CSU. My grades might not be as high as others, but I was working 40+ hours as a design engineer and was a full time student when I attended CSU.

The thing that bothers me is that the intake being inside the engine compartment on a force induction vehicle. I have not tested to see what the intake air temps are with the LNF, but if it is like other FI vehicles the air going into that motor is already HOT. I'm not sure if the added hotter ambient air would be cause for concern or not. I personally would scan the ECU through the OBD2 port to see if the Intake air Temps go up or down, but in my personal opinion anything over the stock air box has to be a slight improvement.

Also plastic doesn't hold heat as much as ferrous material, agreed.

BUT Isn't the LNF HHR intercooled. Because if it is...who cares what temp the air intake is taking in...within reason...The hotter less restrictive air from his intake will be making the engine perform better since it will be cooled by the intercooler.

 

The inTAKE necessarily is under the hood... that's where the engine is, and so there's no way around that reality. The inLET isn't under the hood, however, and so we're talking about the temperature of the air charge entering the system, which will clearly be lower than if the inLET is under the hood as described in the OP.

You did add the "within reason" caveat, but to be clear on this...

Cooler air into the system means a denser charge into the engine (for which the ECM maps may or may not be able to take advantage). The intercooler isn't a panacea. It only helps to lower the temp of the air charge... whatever temp it may be (as in, an intercooler MAY help on some N/A motors). So, regardless of the fact that we have IC's to help with this, the cooler the initial air charge as it comes into the system, the lower the temp will be when it reaches the engine.

 

You guys are beating the same bush, nothing is comming out. Colder air with a tune and the least possible intake air resistance is best? I think we can all agree on this. Or not?

Everything that I've read seems (and i mean SEEMS) to suggest that intake restriction "loss" due to friction from the bends in the tube and "rough" tube walls is LESS important than intake temperature. I don't build race engines , so someone please lend your experience.

I can only fathom how much hotter in must be under that hood versus ambient temperature outside. I opened my hood after my drive home. I am convinced that there is a significant difference :)

I do not understand "heatsoak", considering that if there is soooo muuuch flow that a huge aluminum tube is required to feed the turbo, that the air spends so little time in the tube that it is unlikely that a large temperature rise is seen from heat transfer between the plastic stock intake and the ambient air from outside the engine compartment.

I also do not have any idea what significant frictional losses can be attributed to a tube that flows like the cuyahoga vrs a straight tube. At such a short length , it dosent seem like much.

I think we all can agree that an aluminum tube (greater heat transfer than plastic) , that has at least one bend (not straight.... but not as curvy as stock) that draw its air from UNDER the hood (hot , least dense, your poor poor intercooler) is the worst idea EVER.

So I think that getting the coldest air (densest) into the intake is most important. Tuning (leaner a/f , higher octane ,timing etc) to take advantage of that colder air second, and the restrictional losses way way in third?

Just spilling my head out here....If you can put it back in more organized than it came out....by all means.....
Thanks

BTW when I say intake, I mean the place where air is drawn from , under the hot hood, or outside "cooler" ambient air.

 

Here's a good example of a product designed to give good gains from under the hood. It's positioned on top and behind the engine in a very cramped engine bay. However, the mini has a hood scoop that apparently needs to be unblocked to make the intake work properly. This lets more cold air into the rear part of the engine. I guess it's just for someone to determine if there's enough air moving past the proposed position to keep the intake cool enough to see gains. I suppose a temp sensor in the position proposed by the OP could give some insight to what happens in there.

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/p...-Intake-System

 

So that would be right above the exhaust manifold?

 

I know that I am not on the same brain wave as you engineer guys are, and of course you have a much better understanding of the sciences, than I will ever have. That being said, I get the feeling that because the tube would be running from the stock air filter location, that you feel it is an underhood system, which is going to draw hot engine heat into the filter.
With the air duct just outside of the engine at the location I have specified, there is nothing but cool air that will be drawn in. I don't think that the ducting running over the engine compartment is going to be worse than the already stock air box sitting there now. If anything the air will flow faster into the system, because of the "ram" air effect, and the only bend is at the air inlet duct that will sit in the driver's side opening atop the condenser & radiator. There is already a plastic "liner" there which would prevent any hot air from rising in that location.