Michelin Pilot MXM 4 Tires on SS
03-10-2008, 12:25 AM
#11
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Boy do you have that wrong.
Tire manufacturers do not PAY GM. GM solicites bids from the manufacturers sighting certain specifications. The tire manufacturers submit the tires and provide the testing. GM then certifies what the tire people tell them, by retesting. In the end, GM selects what THEY FEEL IS THE BEST TIRE FOR THE MONEY....taking in consideration ride, sound levels, performance, etc.
This might help you understand TPC better....
http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsi...ing_041707.jsp
Oh, and almost all auto manufacturers have some sort of TPC. This also may help...
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=23
Tire manufacturers do not PAY GM. GM solicites bids from the manufacturers sighting certain specifications. The tire manufacturers submit the tires and provide the testing. GM then certifies what the tire people tell them, by retesting. In the end, GM selects what THEY FEEL IS THE BEST TIRE FOR THE MONEY....taking in consideration ride, sound levels, performance, etc.
This might help you understand TPC better....
http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsi...ing_041707.jsp
Oh, and almost all auto manufacturers have some sort of TPC. This also may help...
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=23
03-10-2008, 07:32 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-06-2008
Location: Hilo, HI
Posts: 177
It seems like the tire manufacturer is still indirectly paying GM to conduct the testing, and the testing standards are proprietary. If GM was testing it for free then the cheapest tire companies wouldn't have to do their own testing. Instead, they would save on the testing costs and get GM to do it for them. Of course, every tire manufacturer would like every GM owner in the market for a tire to consider every one of their particular tires. So there must be some reason that most tires on the market don't have TPCs. Either 95% of tires don't meet the requirements, and the manufacturers aren't interested in meeting them (seems unlikely) OR there's a different reason.
Of course there are minimum federal requirements, as well as SAE standards. I'm saying consumers and the automotive and tire industries would benefit from more stringent open testing standards, such as an ANSI or ISO standard, or a more stringent SAE standard. Then consumers would be able to choose from a wide variety of tires that met a more stringent set of requirements.
The current procedures seem to be heavily-based in marketing. Why shouldn't I be able to choose an all-season performance tire? Or a summer performance tire for my vehicle? Just because GM chose not to make performance tires available for the HHR SS for marketing purposes? It's pretty lame that GM doesn't give me a choice, since they appear to issue a TPC code only for the tire or tires that GM selected to issue with the vehicle. Do you think there really are NO other high-quality 225/45R18s out there, in any other category? I am certain there are other tires out there that could meet the same standards. But due to exclusive marketing agreements, you won't see GM issuing TPCs for tires other than those selected to be sold with the vehicles.
That's my take on it from what I've seen so far. I'm totally willing to change my mind if I see evidence that shows otherwise. If there were other 225/45R18s available with TPC codes it would certainly carry some weight. But I've seen too many reports of MXM4s having hydroplaning and wheelspin issues. And I sure won't restrict myself to a particular tire just because GM chose it for marketing purposes.
Of course there are minimum federal requirements, as well as SAE standards. I'm saying consumers and the automotive and tire industries would benefit from more stringent open testing standards, such as an ANSI or ISO standard, or a more stringent SAE standard. Then consumers would be able to choose from a wide variety of tires that met a more stringent set of requirements.
The current procedures seem to be heavily-based in marketing. Why shouldn't I be able to choose an all-season performance tire? Or a summer performance tire for my vehicle? Just because GM chose not to make performance tires available for the HHR SS for marketing purposes? It's pretty lame that GM doesn't give me a choice, since they appear to issue a TPC code only for the tire or tires that GM selected to issue with the vehicle. Do you think there really are NO other high-quality 225/45R18s out there, in any other category? I am certain there are other tires out there that could meet the same standards. But due to exclusive marketing agreements, you won't see GM issuing TPCs for tires other than those selected to be sold with the vehicles.
That's my take on it from what I've seen so far. I'm totally willing to change my mind if I see evidence that shows otherwise. If there were other 225/45R18s available with TPC codes it would certainly carry some weight. But I've seen too many reports of MXM4s having hydroplaning and wheelspin issues. And I sure won't restrict myself to a particular tire just because GM chose it for marketing purposes.
03-10-2008, 09:10 PM
#13
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Nebulous....
You answered your own question without even knowing it.
For example, Goodyear, Goodrich, Firestone, Michelin (all OEM suppliers to GM)all KNOW THOSE SECRET TPC "CODES" you are referring to. Why do they not offer all, or part, of their tires inventory with the TPC rating? One reason is it's specific to the vehicle, as mentioned in the article I posted the link to. Another reason...tire manufacturers really don't care about the TPC rating. That's just in place to satisfy GM Tire and Wheel System requirements.
Also, most vehicle owners, WHEN PURCHASING A REPLACEMENT TIRE, care very little/pay very little attention to the recommended TPC rating. And that is what the tire manufacturers base their marketing on. Consumers purchase what they want. Reference the members of this forum who have purchased replacement tires and wheels as an example. As you said, "....why shouldn't I be able to buy a performance tire......" etc. etc. You can and nobody is stopping you.
But additionally, GM would be obligated to confirm tire manufacturer testing for the compliance. So instead of accumulating maybe 500,000-1,000,000 miles on a pre intro vehicle they would need to multiply that by the number of different manufacturers submitting the tire for compliance.....product liability comes to mind.
Now, I will admit that this scenario may have changed in the years I left "The General". For 2 years of my extended GM career, Tire and Wheel systems was my Commodity responsibility (side note.....it would make you cry to know what GM paid for each $150.00 retail Goodyear Eagle).
Retrorod has it about right. It's about the manufacturer making compromises to satisfy the entire marketing segment...not just a few.
You answered your own question without even knowing it.
For example, Goodyear, Goodrich, Firestone, Michelin (all OEM suppliers to GM)all KNOW THOSE SECRET TPC "CODES" you are referring to. Why do they not offer all, or part, of their tires inventory with the TPC rating? One reason is it's specific to the vehicle, as mentioned in the article I posted the link to. Another reason...tire manufacturers really don't care about the TPC rating. That's just in place to satisfy GM Tire and Wheel System requirements.
Also, most vehicle owners, WHEN PURCHASING A REPLACEMENT TIRE, care very little/pay very little attention to the recommended TPC rating. And that is what the tire manufacturers base their marketing on. Consumers purchase what they want. Reference the members of this forum who have purchased replacement tires and wheels as an example. As you said, "....why shouldn't I be able to buy a performance tire......" etc. etc. You can and nobody is stopping you.
But additionally, GM would be obligated to confirm tire manufacturer testing for the compliance. So instead of accumulating maybe 500,000-1,000,000 miles on a pre intro vehicle they would need to multiply that by the number of different manufacturers submitting the tire for compliance.....product liability comes to mind.
Now, I will admit that this scenario may have changed in the years I left "The General". For 2 years of my extended GM career, Tire and Wheel systems was my Commodity responsibility (side note.....it would make you cry to know what GM paid for each $150.00 retail Goodyear Eagle).
Retrorod has it about right. It's about the manufacturer making compromises to satisfy the entire marketing segment...not just a few.
03-10-2008, 09:32 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-27-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,115
FYI - TireRack finally has 225/45ZR18 Goodyear Eagle F1 All-Seasons in stock again. Goodyear is offering a mail-in rebate of $50 when buying a set of them (through 05-APR). So I went ahead and ordered a set today.
I still don't know when my SS will get here, but at least I'll have a new set of tires waiting. Gonna take the MXM4s off ASAP before they get too much wear, then sell them as 'almost new'.
Probably no TPC number on the F1s, but I think that's because GM keeps the test criteria confidential. So, unless a tire manufacturer submits a tire for testing (and pays GM accordingly), they don't get the number. I wish GM would open the TPC test criteria to public domain. Then any tire company could easily conduct the same tests on every tire they offer without having to pay GM to do it. It could only be beneficial for the entire industry, and promote more competition.
I heard GM will offer a performance tire on the Cobalt SS as part of a marketing plan to delineate that the Cobalt is a sportscar. So, no optional performance tires available on the HHR SS, to delineate that it's a retro-wagon-crossover-thingy, as opposed to a sportscar.
I still don't know when my SS will get here, but at least I'll have a new set of tires waiting. Gonna take the MXM4s off ASAP before they get too much wear, then sell them as 'almost new'.
Probably no TPC number on the F1s, but I think that's because GM keeps the test criteria confidential. So, unless a tire manufacturer submits a tire for testing (and pays GM accordingly), they don't get the number. I wish GM would open the TPC test criteria to public domain. Then any tire company could easily conduct the same tests on every tire they offer without having to pay GM to do it. It could only be beneficial for the entire industry, and promote more competition.
I heard GM will offer a performance tire on the Cobalt SS as part of a marketing plan to delineate that the Cobalt is a sportscar. So, no optional performance tires available on the HHR SS, to delineate that it's a retro-wagon-crossover-thingy, as opposed to a sportscar.
03-11-2008, 06:08 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-19-2007
Location: Temple Terrace, FL
Posts: 196
"Just a note on tire mounting. When I was getting a slow leak resolved, the tire tech put rags down to protect the rim, and I still ended up with some "smudges" that required buffing with polishing compound to remove. Might be advisable to use duct tape or something to protect the rims. I am sure some of the folks that use high dollar rims have some advice in that regard too."
There are machines that put the tires on without touching the face of the rims
at many of the tire shops.
There are machines that put the tires on without touching the face of the rims
at many of the tire shops.
03-11-2008, 07:00 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-17-2006
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 6,050
Considering what I get cars for from the manufactor (fleet bulk buying), I can probably guess what a lonely tire costs.
Personally I hate Mitchelin tires. They have always been the worst tires I have ever owned (only oem, never repurchased). I hear the Colbalt SS will Contenials on it.
03-11-2008, 07:03 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-17-2006
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 6,050
FYI - TireRack finally has 225/45ZR18 Goodyear Eagle F1 All-Seasons in stock again. Goodyear is offering a mail-in rebate of $50 when buying a set of them (through 05-APR). So I went ahead and ordered a set today.
I still don't know when my SS will get here, but at least I'll have a new set of tires waiting. Gonna take the MXM4s off ASAP before they get too much wear, then sell them as 'almost new'.
I still don't know when my SS will get here, but at least I'll have a new set of tires waiting. Gonna take the MXM4s off ASAP before they get too much wear, then sell them as 'almost new'.
03-11-2008, 03:57 PM
#18
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Since I and others have "high jacked" this thread, I thought I would add this link regarding GM and NEW products entering the TPC arena.....and then retire from this discussion.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...29/206516.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...29/206516.html
03-12-2008, 10:09 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-06-2008
Location: Hilo, HI
Posts: 177
Man, I'm down with the flu for a couple of days and all of a sudden the thread comes back to life... 
Thanks for the info Snoopy, Offy, and C2Vette.
And, yes, it's true, I'm told not to expect the vehicle until around tax day, but I've got tires waiting. FedEx delivered 2 of them today, and probably will deliver the next 2 tomorrow. What can I say, I'm a little obsessive about tires. Besides, what fun is all that torque if the wheels just spin. Maybe we could convince GM to offer a "FWD dually" option next year, so it would become a non-issue.
Thanks for the info Snoopy, Offy, and C2Vette.
And, yes, it's true, I'm told not to expect the vehicle until around tax day, but I've got tires waiting. FedEx delivered 2 of them today, and probably will deliver the next 2 tomorrow. What can I say, I'm a little obsessive about tires. Besides, what fun is all that torque if the wheels just spin. Maybe we could convince GM to offer a "FWD dually" option next year, so it would become a non-issue.
