Turbo Air Inlet Tube Contamination.
04-24-2009, 07:14 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-27-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,115
Here is an expensive version of what some are talking about. http://store.crawfordperformance.com/store/products/334
And a simpler, cheaper one like you describe above that I am going to give a try... http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/52205/10002/-1
And yet another "overpriced" example http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/new_page_1.htm
I also noticed a small amount of oil in the turbo inlet area (clean oil, no sludge).
And a simpler, cheaper one like you describe above that I am going to give a try... http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/52205/10002/-1
And yet another "overpriced" example http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/new_page_1.htm
I also noticed a small amount of oil in the turbo inlet area (clean oil, no sludge).
Last edited by c2vette; 04-24-2009 at 11:16 PM.
04-24-2009, 09:25 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-16-2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 662
That Jegs air filter is way overpriced, along with most of the pretty, machined, anodized "catch cans." It can be duplicated for half the money at Home Depot as a compressed air filter. If you really want to do it right, get a coalescing filter specifically designed for oil mist and vapors. These are available at Mcmaster-Carr.
We LS1 owners have been fighting oil contamination for years. It lowers your octane and builds up thick carbon on the piston tops. I got so tired of it, on my new motor I vent the crankcase to atmosphere with a BMW electric smog pump. Don't tell Al Gore.
We LS1 owners have been fighting oil contamination for years. It lowers your octane and builds up thick carbon on the piston tops. I got so tired of it, on my new motor I vent the crankcase to atmosphere with a BMW electric smog pump. Don't tell Al Gore.
04-24-2009, 11:37 PM
#13
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Join Date: 11-27-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,115
04-25-2009, 07:04 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-16-2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 662
The later LS1s had that as well. It helps some, but not enough. Even the LS2 and 3 variants still suck oil. Most of the enthusiasts still have to use some type of catch can or filter.
04-25-2009, 09:07 AM
#15
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 12-15-2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 47
"If all else fails, read the instructions"
I decided to read the trusty Factory Service Manual. Page 9-1217 has a description of the turbomotor PCV system.
In a normally aspirated motor, there is usually a vacuum in the intake manifold, and the PCV system consists of a connection from the valve cover to the the intake manifold thru the PCV valve.
In a turbocharged motor, there may be pressure in the intake manifold, so a more complicated system is used. There is a primary system similar to a NA motor, and a secondary system that vents the crankcase into the turbo inlet. According to the SM, this system is supposed to handle the problem of contamination of the throttle body and other parts of the induction system, but in practice, it doesn't accomplish this, if my experience is typical, rather than a fault with my system. I don't fully understand how the whole system operates, but it seems to me to be a more complicated thing than just installing a single catch can somewhere in the system.
Further thought and study of this matter appears to be needed.
I wonder how the 2008 HHR SS owners with much higher miles are doing with this problem...
I decided to read the trusty Factory Service Manual. Page 9-1217 has a description of the turbomotor PCV system.
In a normally aspirated motor, there is usually a vacuum in the intake manifold, and the PCV system consists of a connection from the valve cover to the the intake manifold thru the PCV valve.
In a turbocharged motor, there may be pressure in the intake manifold, so a more complicated system is used. There is a primary system similar to a NA motor, and a secondary system that vents the crankcase into the turbo inlet. According to the SM, this system is supposed to handle the problem of contamination of the throttle body and other parts of the induction system, but in practice, it doesn't accomplish this, if my experience is typical, rather than a fault with my system. I don't fully understand how the whole system operates, but it seems to me to be a more complicated thing than just installing a single catch can somewhere in the system.
Further thought and study of this matter appears to be needed.
I wonder how the 2008 HHR SS owners with much higher miles are doing with this problem...
04-25-2009, 10:14 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-27-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,115
"If all else fails, read the instructions"
I decided to read the trusty Factory Service Manual. Page 9-1217 has a description of the turbomotor PCV system.
.................................................. .......
Further thought and study of this matter appears to be needed.
...
I decided to read the trusty Factory Service Manual. Page 9-1217 has a description of the turbomotor PCV system.
.................................................. .......
Further thought and study of this matter appears to be needed.
...
Good suggestion. Reading that also gives a hint that the folks who are having an actual build-up (coking?) may have a bad check valve.
04-26-2009, 01:08 PM
#17
Member
Join Date: 07-06-2008
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 90
How does the catch can work ?
I got to thinking about the sooty exhaust that the HHR SS produces, and I remember that the oil started looking dirty soon after oil change. I am told that the direct injection results in the sooty exhaust (which seems strange to me - with fine metering injectors, precisely controlled, you would expect the opposite). Anyway, this all may be contributing to the PCV system producing more crud than might normally be expected.
I got to thinking about the sooty exhaust that the HHR SS produces, and I remember that the oil started looking dirty soon after oil change. I am told that the direct injection results in the sooty exhaust (which seems strange to me - with fine metering injectors, precisely controlled, you would expect the opposite). Anyway, this all may be contributing to the PCV system producing more crud than might normally be expected.
I noticed our SS actually smoking when she accelerated hard. Fine black smoke out the exhaust like a modern diesel. Just a hint of it but indeed noticeable. Also my soot level is on the back of the car is pretty bad even only after one week.
How can this be an acceptable practice in this day and age?
04-28-2009, 08:48 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: 11-27-2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,115
So after we have had a lot of discussion on possible remedies with examples of engine types that have a problem with oil contamination from the PCV system, and now after some investigation I am ready to say this is a non-problem for a properly operating SS 2.0 Turbo.
My car has had the Hahn tune running up to 24 psi boost for most of its 24,000 miles, and after looking at all the various parts in the intake tract (see photos of turbo inlet pipe, and turbo outlet) I see no evidence of "sludge" or even a light mist of oil (all bone dry). Also checked the old intercooler and pipes pulled off at about 18,000 miles, they are also completely clean and dry.
Conclusion: If you have oil or worse, "sludge" in your inlet tract, something is wrong, get it fixed.
My car has had the Hahn tune running up to 24 psi boost for most of its 24,000 miles, and after looking at all the various parts in the intake tract (see photos of turbo inlet pipe, and turbo outlet) I see no evidence of "sludge" or even a light mist of oil (all bone dry). Also checked the old intercooler and pipes pulled off at about 18,000 miles, they are also completely clean and dry.
Conclusion: If you have oil or worse, "sludge" in your inlet tract, something is wrong, get it fixed.