JimDaddyo

Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda continue to open new plants in North America, pay the same wages and benefits, and make a profit doing it. So why can't the big 3 do it?

hhrcrafty

They shut it down because the union got greedy back in '99 and it wasn't worth the money to convert it back to a front-drive small car plant. After the similar stunt Fairfax, KS assembly pulled two months ago, I wouldn't be surprised if they're on the next list too.

OSHAWA IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN PEOPLE!!

Only the truck line. The car lines are remaining. Everybody knew medium-duty was going away with the sale to Navistar.

hhrcrafty

Because Toyota and Honda do not have any legacy costs like the Big Three do. GM is the largest provider of health care and retirement pensions in North America. That health care and retirement is guaranteed for LIFE as long as you work to a certain time frame. Additionally, those new "plants" in North America are "assembly plants". They do not "make" anything there from start to finish. They even bring in the steel for the building from overseas!

Pizzaman

Honda isn't paying the same as union wages in the new plant in Indiana. My cousin just started, and his pay is $2.00 per hour less than what he was making. Although, he will be making about $3.00 more per hour than what he was makingat his last job, in about 3 years. But he will still be at only $22. per hr then. Most assembly workers for GM the big three earn more than that.

HHR4JK

I think the key word is WAS not is, they are slowly taking that away..and i dont buy that anyway........got to many white shirts...... need to get rid of some of that DEAD weight first... never understood having 2 chiefs for every 1 indian......

and replacing new hires for alot less...... thats in the new so called contract.

hhrcrafty

Are you talking about the dead weight that can show up late or not at all without notice, tell the supervisor/foreman where they can go when confronted, receives a $1,300 payment for being on the "Malibu Launch Team", and never has to worry about being fired because they have a union rep? Or are you talking about the people who get laid off just the same who have NO union benefits, NO jobs bank, and will be let go every time over a line worker?

The only dead weight are the people making life hell for everyone else. Trouble is you gotta give 'em a job for life or the whole plant will walk out.

HHR4JK

i believe in UNION...... growed up union..... but thats one thing i dont agree with, and thats sticking up for someone that is obviously not doing there part or doing there job....and taking advantage of the system...thats where i myself draws the line.... if i do work then why cant everyone else do what they are suppose to do....

I fired a guy that was doing what you say was happening, late, etc, and i was threaten by my union brothers of walking out, told them go ahead if you want to stick up for a dead beat and one that hurts the rest of us do to production go ahead, but dont bother to show back up you to will have your pink slip, i was threaten of having a charges against me. which by the way didnt go any where. but thats what has happened to America work force..... I have seen it with electricians... i myself am tired of people getting handouts or favors ....... either you do your work or you get fired.....

but i still say part isTOO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS i have seen it first hand..... no company can expect to stay afloat when you have too many people that are in upper mgnt. and you keep cutting those who put the product together. to much non productive overhead......

Desert Coyote

I think a part of this might be in GM's basic corporate hierarchical structure, not necessarily because there are that many managers but because certain jobs are defined as managers when they're really not.

Case in point: my wife. She's considered to be in management, but she does exactly zero managing. Why? Because under the terms of the hierarchy engineers default to being managers. My wife is a mechanical engineer, not an MBA. Unfortunately, her qualifications don't matter: if they need a supervisor for a line, they'll pluck one from the engineers even if they've never had experience supervising a line, because of this muddled classification.

I can tell you that she dreads the thought of having to become a line supervisor. (right now she's a line I.E. for the machining floors for the 3.5/3.9L V6 and 8.1L V8 lines)

Clevelandhhrss

Oshwa..lol
Yes they were always the "best" when I worked for GM. There are more forces at play than just plant efficiency, or highest quality. A lot of things that Oshwa started have filtered throughout the corporation anyways.

hhrcrafty

You may have grown up with the union, but not the auto industry. It's a whole different ballgame with the UAW. Everyone goes to bat for each other, even if it's the laziest, tardiest person on the line, and the company will let go of ten salaried employees before they go through the trouble of trying to get rid of one hourly employee.

Fact is there's very few people "at the top" in the hierarchical structure of the corporation as a whole. In fact, there is probably more "dead weight" at the top of the union than at the top of the corporation in terms of proportion of management.

I've grown up with the auto industry. My family has been in it for five generations and my great-grandmother brought food to my great-grandfather who was one of the first sit-down strikers up in Flint back in the day. My own father worked for the company for 40 years, first half in the union, last half on salary. I will defend the American auto worker to the end and I will always buy from a domestic brand. What I will not let go is the "union vs. management" BS that's done nothing but erode the Big Three for 30 years. The line worker needs the engineers to design a car for him to build and the engineers need a reliable line worker to build the car they designed to a specification that'll keep the customers coming back for more. When the team forgets why that's important, the industry will fail.